Prototype Rails


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Andy Carlson asks:

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy
Carlson
of SO Cal
Andy, Prototype Rails is an annual prototype modeling event which I
initiated. The first meet was held at Cocoa Beach, Florida last Jan 12 and
13 at the Hilton Hotel. Bruce Smith refers to a similar Savannah prototype
modeling meet as the first of such meets. This is not really true, I think,
although, frankly, I have not attended others than the one at Savannah and
RPM meets at the NMRA National. If we group all prototype modeling events
together...which I prefer to do... I think Naperville is the oldest and most
well known. Others that I am aware of are various ones held in California
and Pittsburgh. I think Bill Welch was involved with another one in the
east.

Each meet has a somewhat different flavor I think...which is probably good.
The Savannah meet last year was primarily a model display event with a
couple of clinics. There was a large number of models on display but I don't
know the number. Naperville, from what I know, seems to be an event
emphasizing seminars on the prototype, modeling the prototype, and with
accompanying models on display. The level of seminar presenters is quite
high and includes the most well known...to me...experts in the hobby.
Prototype Rails [ in Cocoa Beach ] has the theme of The Prototype and How to
Model It. We emphasize equally seminar/clinics and displaying of models.
This last Jan we had over 800 models present and 26 different
clinic/seminars in 39 different clinic time periods. We were very fortunate
and managed to put together an impressive list of presenters at our first
meet. Next year should be even more impressive and I intend to begin to
publicize it all beginning in June. The Savannah meet will be held this June
1/2. There will be a meet held in Cleveland, OH, on Oct 5/6 which will be
similar to the Savannah meet, I think, with emphasis on the display of
models with clinics on model building. Jim Six is running that event.

Here is a list of last yr's cinicians:
1. Modeling the L&N in Appalachia: John Wilkes [ see Trackside Photos ,
July MR]
2. Signals, Signal Systems and How to Model Them: Ken Farnham
3. Freight Car Braking Equipment: Ron Dettmer [ An ex CSX employee, Ron has
detailed
information about this equipment]
4. Operations: Bruce Metcalf
5. Rust and how to Model it: Mike Rose [ see Sep/Oct RMC ]
6. Less Than Carload Container Cars and Loads: Al Westerfield
8. Modeling the UP on Sherman Hill: Mike Brock
9. Weathering Diesels and Cars: Jim Six
10. Modern tank cars: Tim Frederick
11. Getting to Know Steam Locomotives: Andy Sperandeo
12. Prototypes for Passenger Car Models: Andy Harman
13. Appalachian Coal Industry: John Roberts
14: Shay Locomotives: Lou Ullian
15. The Bone Valley :Tom Bissett [CSX engineer]
16. Prototype Track Planning and Practices: Tom Bissett
17. Methods of Modeling Passenger Cars: Joe Oates [Ex CSX employee]
18. Shading and Highlighting, Weathering with Artificial Light: Greg Martin
[see many articles in Mainline Modeler]
20. Modeling Santa Fe Grain Cars [exact title may change]: Ken Edmier
21. Detailing buildings: Dayna Warner
22. Steam Locomotive Sound and Operations: Bruce Smith
23. Scott Chatfield: Subject to be Announced
24. Realistic Scenery: Jon Addison [ owner of a superb Sn3 mudular layout
which will also be present ].
25. Scenery, North and South: Bob Miller

If anyone has an interest in doing a seminar/clinic next Jan in Cocoa Beach,
FL...next to the Space Center...let me know.

Mike Brock
Boss...Prototype Rails


ibs4421@...
 

Mike,
I already wished that I could have attended, but even more so now. Since my work schedule and family obligations prevent me from attending, now or in the forseeable future, are there any handouts available for some of these clinics? I know I could sure put some of that info to good use.

Home-bound,

Warren Dickinson

PS: Went to go look at a "steam-era" house today (ca. 1900) , with the idea of buying it and fixing it up. The wife has already agreed that running an HO scale diesel in that house would be a sacrilege. :)


Richard Hendrickson
 

Andy Carlson asks:

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy
Carlson
of SO Cal
Andy, Prototype Rails is an annual prototype modeling event which I
initiated. The first meet was held at Cocoa Beach, Florida last Jan 12 and
13 at the Hilton Hotel. Bruce Smith refers to a similar Savannah prototype
modeling meet as the first of such meets. This is not really true, I think,
although, frankly, I have not attended others than the one at Savannah and
RPM meets at the NMRA National. If we group all prototype modeling events
together...which I prefer to do... I think Naperville is the oldest and most
well known. Others that I am aware of are various ones held in California
and Pittsburgh. I think Bill Welch was involved with another one in the
east.
You initiated it? Gee, Mike, for some reason everyone on the Prototype
Modeler list seems to be under the impression that Jim Six put it on. I
wonder how they got that idea? Seriously, the RPM meets at the NMRA
National have been taking place since 1985, though NMRA support for them
has varied widely according to the inclinations of the local committees.
In recent years, the meets at Atlanta (thanks to Scott Chatfield), Kansas
City (thanks to Keith Jordan) and Madison. WI (thanks to a number of people
on the local committee) have been, in my opinion, especially successful.
San Jose was sort of a bust, but that wasn't because the NMRA folks let us
down but because of the anti-social behavior of some dissidents in the RPM
group. I will add that the NMRA Pacific Coast Region has had RPM meets at
every convention since the late 1980s, and is having another one in San
Luis Obispo next weekend. Pete Solyum's meet in Southern California has
also been going on for a long time, though I don't know exactly when it
started. So Naperville isn't the oldest, but it's probably the oldest
stand-alone meet and certainly the best known and most strongly supported.
Of course, it helps that there are a lot of prototype modelers in and
around Chicago and that the windy city is pretty easy to get to by air from
almost anywhere in the country. It's not even hard to get there by rail,
if (like Jeff English) you refuse to travel any other way.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

On Date: Fri, 4 May 2001, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

San Jose was sort of a bust, but that wasn't because
the NMRA
folks let us down but because of the anti-social
behavior of some
dissidents in the RPM group.
Ah, another unbiased Hendrickson editorial opinion !

Pete Solyum's meet in Southern California has also
been going
on for a long time, though I don't know exactly when
it started.

And I believe the Southern California Santa Fe
Modelers meets in Huntington Beach were going on long
before the WP meets in La Habra which evolved into
Pete's meet. Both were stand-alone one-day prototype
oriented meets of the model display/clinic format.
They even had some manufacturers' displays - including
Stan Kistler selling photos and some guy with a kit
company called WesterAle, or WestRail or something
like that.

So Naperville isn't the oldest, but it's probably the
oldest stand-alone
meet and certainly the best known and most strongly
supported.

So Richard, please complete your history lesson and
tell us when was the first Naperville/Sunshine meet,
or did it start before Martin promoted it? And, at
least in my limited recent experience, calling it a
stand-alone meet is a bit misleading, since it has
been the same weekend as the Chicago Hobby Show which
made the trip more easily justified.

Cheers,
Dick Harley


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Dick Harley wrote

So Richard, please complete your history lesson and
tell us when was the first Naperville/Sunshine meet,
or did it start before Martin promoted it? And, at
least in my limited recent experience, calling it a
stand-alone meet is a bit misleading, since it has
been the same weekend as the Chicago Hobby Show which
made the trip more easily justified.
My first Naperville meet was in 1995, and I think that
was the 2nd, if not the 1st, meet. I didn't even know
what MRIA was then, nor had I ever heard of Des Plaines
Hobbies. I didn't attend the MRIA show in 1995 either..
I think I will enjoy the meet more this year, without
the distraction of the show activities -- people tend to
leave and return during the day, which I don't think
adds much to the "fraternal" experience. YMMV.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim wrote:
My first Naperville meet was in 1995, and I think that
was the 2nd, if not the 1st, meet.
Martin's working draft for the 2001 meet says "8th Annual", so that would
make 1994 the first.

I didn't even know
what MRIA was then, nor had I ever heard of Des Plaines
Hobbies.
That's when you started down the road to "Sin and Degra... ah say, SIN and
DAYgruhDAYshun", is it? (Apologies to Fred Allen.)

I didn't attend the MRIA show in 1995 either..
I think I will enjoy the meet more this year, without
the distraction of the show activities -- people tend to
leave and return during the day, which I don't think
adds much to the "fraternal" experience. YMMV.

It'll be interesting to see how attendance goes this year. I get the feeling
much of the push to keep the Sunshine meet in October came from Martin's
clinicians. (I certainly lobbied hard for it.) I'd imagine attendance by
industry "players" will be down, but the meet itself should be more
focussed.

Tom M.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Tom Madden wrote

It'll be interesting to see how attendance goes this year. I get the feeling
much of the push to keep the Sunshine meet in October came from Martin's
clinicians. (I certainly lobbied hard for it.) I'd imagine attendance by
industry "players" will be down, but the meet itself should be more
focused.
I will miss seeing Larry Grubb's (Proto2000) and Bill Schneider's
(Branch-something or other) smiling faces (if they decide to stay
away). But I may be too busy scuba-diving through Bob's Photos to
take much notice...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I agree that it will be more focused. There is so much stimulus there at Naperville that I don't need anything else that weekend. I certainly urged Martin to keep the late October date. September is a terrible time of year for me professionally.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 5/8/01, at 7:34 PM, tgmadden wrote:

Tim wrote:
My first Naperville meet was in 1995, and I think that
was the 2nd, if not the 1st, meet.
Martin's working draft for the 2001 meet says "8th Annual", so that would
make 1994 the first.

I didn't even know
what MRIA was then, nor had I ever heard of Des Plaines
Hobbies.
That's when you started down the road to "Sin and Degra... ah say, SIN and
DAYgruhDAYshun", is it? (Apologies to Fred Allen.)

I didn't attend the MRIA show in 1995 either..
I think I will enjoy the meet more this year, without
the distraction of the show activities -- people tend to
leave and return during the day, which I don't think
adds much to the "fraternal" experience. YMMV.

It'll be interesting to see how attendance goes this year. I get the feeling
much of the push to keep the Sunshine meet in October came from Martin's
clinicians. (I certainly lobbied hard for it.) I'd imagine attendance by
industry "players" will be down, but the meet itself should be more
focussed.

Tom M.


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Bill 'Welch <bwelch@...>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
P.O. Box 130 Oakton VA 22124 www.uucf.org
Telephone 703 281-4230 Fax 703 281-5399


Richard Hendrickson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote (replying on my behalf to Dick Harley):

My first Naperville meet was in 1995, and I think that
was the 2nd, if not the 1st, meet.
It was the second. 1994 was the first. (I haven't missed any.)

...I didn't even know
what MRIA was then, nor had I ever heard of Des Plaines
Hobbies. I didn't attend the MRIA show in 1995 either..
I think I will enjoy the meet more this year, without
the distraction of the show activities -- people tend to
leave and return during the day, which I don't think
adds much to the "fraternal" experience. YMMV.
I'm inclined to agree, especially since Naperville has expanded from the
100 or so who attended the first one to around 250 today. Personally, I
regret that it no longer coincides with MRIA, as the Rosemont meeting
afforded me an opportunity to connect in person with some of the publishers
and manufacturers I work with/for, but I always had a trade pass and
attended MRIA Thursday and Friday morning before relocating to Naperville
on Friday afternoon. Those who had to attend MRIA when it was open to the
public always had a conflict, as Tim says. Also, like him, I'm looking
forward to braving the feeding frenzy this year at the Bob's Photo Service
booth. I'll be there with hobnailed boots on and my elbows out. You think
professional ice hockey is violent? Wait 'til you see me and O'Connor
going after those freight car photos.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 8 May 2001 19:26:31 -0700 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...> writes:
Tim O'Connor wrote (replying on my behalf to Dick Harley):

My first Naperville meet was in 1995, and I think that
was the 2nd, if not the 1st, meet.
It was the second. 1994 was the first. (I haven't missed any.)
I'd like to remind you guys (and gals) of what must surely be the
grandpappy of all of these freight car meetings, held in the early 80s in
a little town just south of the Washington, DC beltway. I don't remember
the date but I remember the town was Springfield, Virginia and meeting
many of the same people who show up at these similar meetings today,
including Al Westerfield, Chris Barkan and Keith Jordan, among others.

The second coming of the freight car movement had be the 1990 NMRA
convention, so ably hosted in Pittsburgh by Tony Thompson, now known as
Mr. Anthony W. Thompson, Ed. I think it was Tony collecting and
publicizing one of the finest groups of freight car leaning clinicians
ever assembled which has made it possible for people like me to be kicked
off of internet groups. Thank you Tony and all of you who helped in
those early days when we were considered freaks for looking beyond the
locomotive.

Byron

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Shawn Beckert
 

Byron Rose wrote, in part:

The second coming of the freight car movement had to be
the 1990 NMRA convention, so ably hosted in Pittsburgh
by Tony Thompson, now known as Mr. Anthony Thompson, Ed.
Someday I'd like to get my hands on a copy of the clinic
book for that convention, which NMRA headquarters is out
of, and in their wisdom refuses to do a reprint of. You
don't suppose we might get together a donation and have
some one do a bootleg reprint for the list?

Thank you Tony and all of you who helped in those early
days when we were considered freaks for looking beyond
the locomotive.
A lot of us are still considered freaks, or worse, for that
same reason, even in this day and age...

Shawn Beckert


Richard Hendrickson
 

Someday I'd like to get my hands on a copy of the clinic
book for that convention....
Some of the material is of marginal value today, or has been rendered
obsolete by later publications (e.g., my truck article in Rwy Prototype
Cyc. #4 is much better than the clinic I did in 1990). But some it is
probably still worth having, andI'llbe happy to send you my book so you can
copy what you want from it.

A lot of us are still considered freaks, or worse, for that
same reason, even in this day and age...
True. Power to the freaks!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


thompson@...
 

Shawn Beckert writes:
Someday I'd like to get my hands on a copy of the clinic
book for that convention, which NMRA headquarters is out
of, and in their wisdom refuses to do a reprint of. You
don't suppose we might get together a donation and have
some one do a bootleg reprint for the list?
Wouldn't be hard to do. I have offered to help put together a reprint for
the NMRA Library folks, but they have a variety of large, scary objects
right in front of their noses these days, including substantial budget
problems, and evidently can't see ahead of themselves at all.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


thompson@...
 

Byron Rose writes:
The second coming of the freight car movement had be the 1990 NMRA
convention, so ably hosted in Pittsburgh by Tony Thompson, now known as
Mr. Anthony W. Thompson, Ed. I think it was Tony collecting and
publicizing one of the finest groups of freight car leaning clinicians
ever assembled which has made it possible for people like me to be kicked
off of internet groups. Thank you Tony...
I appreciate the kind words, Byron. Actually, all I did, as clinic chair,
was to imagine the line-up of clinicians that would be MY dream program,
and then just invited them all to Pittsburgh. The rest, as they say, was
just kielbasa and Arn.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On May 8, 9:50pm, Bill Welch wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototype Rails
September is a terrible time of year for me professionally.
Bill 'Welch <bwelch@...>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
Bill,

I gotta ask: why is September a bad time for you professionally?
Are there more sinners at that time that need to be saved?
I can see Christmas and Easter being busy, but September??


Just curious,

-Jeff

P.S. I wonder what the freight cars looked like on His train:
"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a
throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. "
-Isaiah 6:1


--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Richard Hendrickson
 

Jeff Aley wrote:

On May 8, 9:50pm, Bill Welch wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Prototype Rails
September is a terrible time of year for me professionally.
Bill 'Welch <bwelch@...>
Associate Minister, Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
Bill,

I gotta ask: why is September a bad time for you professionally?
Are there more sinners at that time that need to be saved?
I can see Christmas and Easter being busy, but September??


Just curious,

-Jeff
Bill can and doubtless will answer this for himself, but as a fellow
Unitarian I've got to tell you that UU ministers don't conceive of their
mission as saving sinners; their objectives are both more and less
sophisticated than that!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

If Bill's congregation is anything like mine, September is very busy
because it's the start of the "church season". (We get summers off!
And you thought UU's were crazy.)

Are there more sinners at that time that need to be saved?
I can see Christmas and Easter being busy, but September??
Bill can and doubtless will answer this for himself, but as a fellow
Unitarian I've got to tell you that UU ministers don't conceive of their
mission as saving sinners; their objectives are both more and less
sophisticated than that!


Stafford F. Swain <sswain@...>
 

Hi:

Now that we're on the topic of seminal "freight car freak meets", I'll chime in that my first such experience was at the 1985 NMRA convention in Milwaukee which occurred about the time of Paul Clegg's and my "Dominion/Fowler car piece in MM was being published.

A lot of freight car-oriented folks were there and we all learned about boxcar ends and doors at that feet of Dr. Frank Peacock and quaffed a few brews with Bob Walker and Dennis Storzek. Al Westerfield, Jeff English, John Riddell, Ken Goslett Richard Yaremko, and John Nehrich (all of whom who I'd met at earlier conventions) were there as was my remarkable ex-Winnipeg buddy, the late Terry Metcalfe. If I work at it, I'll remember some others who were there but that's a pretty decent list of "stars" (and future magazine pages, books and kits) for starters.

Yes Pittsburgh was big but certainly not the first event in the movement.

On Tue, 8 May 2001 19:26:31 -0700 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...> writes:
Tim O'Connor wrote (replying on my behalf to Dick Harley):

>My first Naperville meet was in 1995, and I think that
>was the 2nd, if not the 1st, meet.

It was the second. 1994 was the first. (I haven't missed any.)
I'd like to remind you guys (and gals) of what must surely be the
grandpappy of all of these freight car meetings, held in the early 80s in
a little town just south of the Washington, DC beltway. I don't remember
the date but I remember the town was Springfield, Virginia and meeting
many of the same people who show up at these similar meetings today,
including Al Westerfield, Chris Barkan and Keith Jordan, among others.

The second coming of the freight car movement had be the 1990 NMRA
convention, so ably hosted in Pittsburgh by Tony Thompson, now known as
Mr. Anthony W. Thompson, Ed. I think it was Tony collecting and
publicizing one of the finest groups of freight car leaning clinicians
ever assembled which has made it possible for people like me to be kicked
off of internet groups. Thank you Tony and all of you who helped in
those early days when we were considered freaks for looking beyond the
locomotive.

Byron

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26 Kenneth Street
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
R3T 0K8
(204) 477-9246
sswain@...


Shawn Beckert
 

My first contact with serious modelers was during the
Santa Fe Prototype Modelers meets down in Lawndale, or
Carson, or wherever the heck they were down south of L.A.
Even though I was strictly into the Southern Pacific at
the time, and this was an AT&SF gig, I went down there in
hopes of meeting other folks who thought there were better
things in life than Athearn freight cars.

Plus, there was some guy out there who sold "Westrail"
kits, a totally new concept in model building, at least
to us young punks who were graduating from the 4x8 oval
scene. Richard, I still have all those kits...

Shawn Beckert


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson writes:

but as a fellow
Unitarian I've got to tell you that UU ministers don't conceive of their
mission as saving sinners; their objectives are both more and less
sophisticated than that!
While I certainly appreciate the publicity...all these interesting and
historical messages about previous prototype modeling events under the
subject of Prototype Rails.... which is held in Cocoa Beach in Jan....and
although I do wish the contents might say something like, "Oh yes, I'm
planning to attend, I am now getting a bit nervous now that we are moving,
apparently, into the world of sin...surely not connected with Prototype
Rails......is it?

Mike Brock
Boss, Prototype Rails...not Jim Six as it says in Rail Line News