Resin


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Morning Y'all,

Okay...I've been following (and bidding on a few) the resin on eBay, and I
have decided the following...Al (Westerfield), you need to change your
motto. It isn't as good as brass, its better! Brass does not appreciate,
but clearly, resin kits do, and the bidding is stunning. Two days ago I
was worried that the Westerfield "Yellow Kid" (1602951810) set wasn't
getting the attention it deserved...this morning it went for $521...thats
over $85 per car!!!!

As has been noted by others, the bidding on kits that are still in
production at prices significantly above the retail market price is
baffling...but clearly indicates that "rarity" is not a requirement!! I
hesitate to think of the prices that these cars might bring if the kits had
been built (or would that ruin the value?). This is actually a practical
question as I have a couple of Westerfield kits that are the wrong era for
me (e.g. PRR and Berwind GL hoppers). I could build these kits and sell
the built up models on eBay, since I enjoy building Al's kit tremendously,
or I could just sell or trade the kits...

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
As has been noted by others, the bidding on kits that are still in
production at prices significantly above the retail market price is
baffling...but clearly indicates that "rarity" is not a requirement!!
As a long time ebayer (4 yrs) I've seen and participated enough to have
formed an opinion on this very fact -- concluding that scarcity is very
relative. 5 miles from my house is the Train Shop of Santa Clara CA., which
normally has 200-300 Westerfield kits in stock (at discounted prices).
Being flush with choices, I almost never bid on that product line on ebay
(tho on occasion I've scored some very good deals). I can see how somebody
in, say, Ely Nevada, might have a very different appreciation for what ebay
has to offer and would be willing to pay a premium when the opportunity
arises.

Which raises another question: why is some people (myself included) find the
friction of using the postal service (e.g., writing the letter, licking the
stamp, etc.) sufficently off-putting as to have prevented placing an order
directly with either Al or Martin? Strange as it sounds, I think this is
what is at the heart of those requests of Martin to get a web page and/or
that both Al & Martin take orders directly thru the web.

Dave Nelson


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Which raises another question: why is some people (myself included) find the
friction of using the postal service (e.g., writing the letter, licking the
stamp, etc.) sufficently off-putting as to have prevented placing an order
directly with either Al or Martin? Strange as it sounds, I think this is
what is at the heart of those requests of Martin to get a web page and/or
that both Al & Martin take orders directly thru the web.
Dave, in my case this was NOT the issue.

I was thinking about how resin kits are made, and then sold. Martin makes a
batch of 20-40 kits from a single set of molds.

Once a batch is made, ideally (as a vendor) you want to move 'em out, right?
I thought a web site that showed "models in stock" or "out of stock" would be
useful to me because I could order models from stock that I wanted to start
working on soon -- while out of stock items can take 2-4 months to get.

My last 3 orders to Martin have taken 12-15 weeks to fill. This is ok with me
to some extent, but it should would be nice to know up front which kits I am
waiting for, and which kits are already in stock but Martin is waiting to fill the
entire order. (He doesn't cash the check until about 2-3 weeks before he
ships all of the kits.)

Suppose I order a slow-moving kit? Martin probably doesn't want to make a
single car just for me, so he cranks out 10 or 12 kits. Now he has an inventory
problem! If people knew from the web site that a kit was available immediately
would they be more likely to buy it (i.e. the impulse factor)?


Shawn Beckert
 

Regarding Sunshine's lack of a web presence:

Does anyone know if Martin has a computer at
all? I mean this in a kindly way - It took a
very long time for friends to persuade me to
get a computer and log on the net. Now they
have a hard time getting me away from it ;-).

Could it be that Martin doesn't want to take
time away from producing kits to learn a new
technology? I've gotten the impression that
he and his wife run the business themselves.
There may not be time - or money - enough to
take on designing or maintaining a web page.

I have to say though, having a website is a
powerful inducement to potential customers.
I've done more business through contacts on
the Net than I ever have in an actual store
or swap meet. It would give Sunshine a lot of
exposure if they could show their product on
the internet. Then again, Martin might not
want to be that busy...

Shawn Beckert


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Sunshine kit are going very high but not Al's. I won a batch at $65
which is about the normal bid for the Westerfield cars. $65 divided by 4 is
$16.25 a car which is not a bad price at all considering the cars go for $25
to $30 list. Sunshine is a different matter because there are Sunshine cars
in these batches that are OOP's. Westerfield cars are never (to my
knowledge) OOP.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@i...> wrote:
Which raises another question: why is some people (myself included)
find the
friction of using the postal service (e.g., writing the letter,
licking the
stamp, etc.) sufficently off-putting as to have prevented placing
an order
directly with either Al or Martin? Strange as it sounds, I think
this is
what is at the heart of those requests of Martin to get a web page
and/or
that both Al & Martin take orders directly thru the web.

Dave Nelson
In the case of the Sunshine kits on ebay, I am happy to pay list
price (or even a little above, but not much) because I know that I
will have the kits in a matter of days as opposed to Martin's usual
12-15 weeks (which is NOT a problem for me and I don't mean to
insinuate anything negative about Martin [or Steve Funaro] --
remember that these are cottage industries manned by "artisans").
Like Dave, I have the luxury of going to The Train Shop in Santa
Clara to get my Westerfield fix, except for the recent lack of
inventory of the USRA mill gons -- Al, you need to send some B&O and
NYC cars out to them!

Ted Culotta


billd@...
 

Bruce,

I think you've hit the nail on the head about built-up kits
"ruining" the value. I am getting REALLY FED UP with the
collector mentality that is invading this hobby (although
when I go to sell some of the kits I've got kicking around
the house, I might feel differently :-)

As far as current production kits selling for over list,
there are exactly NO hobbyshops here in Arizona that stock
any of these kits...and I don't think that we are that
different from most places. Several shops say that they
can't sell a kit and load the shelves with RTR Intermountain
Kadee and other high-dollar, "collector" cars. Sheesh!!!

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:00:33 -0500
"Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu>
wrote:

Morning Y'all,

Okay...I've been following (and bidding on a few) the
resin on eBay, and I
have decided the following...Al (Westerfield), you need
to change your
motto. It isn't as good as brass, its better! Brass
does not appreciate,
but clearly, resin kits do, and the bidding is stunning.
Two days ago I
was worried that the Westerfield "Yellow Kid"
(1602951810) set wasn't
getting the attention it deserved...this morning it went
for $521...thats
over $85 per car!!!!

As has been noted by others, the bidding on kits that are
still in
production at prices significantly above the retail
market price is
baffling...but clearly indicates that "rarity" is not a
requirement!! I
hesitate to think of the prices that these cars might
bring if the kits had
been built (or would that ruin the value?). This is
actually a practical
question as I have a couple of Westerfield kits that are
the wrong era for
me (e.g. PRR and Berwind GL hoppers). I could build
these kits and sell
the built up models on eBay, since I enjoy building Al's
kit tremendously,
or I could just sell or trade the kits...

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be
happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___
____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __
__ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |
||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0
0-0-0



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dixierails <dixierails@...>
 

Dave,
Could you provide me with an address and perhaps a phone number of the
"Train Shop" and whether they have a mail order or phone order side of their
business. I have a need for a dozen or so of Al's kits and I'd love to find
somewhere that offered them at any size of a discount. Thanks.
Larry Sexton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@ix.netcom.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Resin




-----Original Message-----
5 miles from my house is the Train Shop of Santa Clara CA., which
normally has 200-300 Westerfield kits in stock (at discounted prices).

Dave Nelson


ted_culotta@...
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "dixierails" <dixierails@a...> wrote:
Dave,
Could you provide me with an address and perhaps a phone number of
the
"Train Shop" and whether they have a mail order or phone order side
of their
business. I have a need for a dozen or so of Al's kits and I'd love
to find
somewhere that offered them at any size of a discount. Thanks.
Larry Sexton
408-296-1050. I assume that they do some sort of mail order since
most of the Gronski estate's Sunshine kits are from The Train Shop.
They DON'T stock Sunshine kits except for a few that end up on the
shelves when they happen to place customer orders. Also, if you
order Sunshine kits through The Train Shop, the lead times are just
as long as ordering yourself. However, you may avoid tax (weigh
against shipping) and if you prefer credit cards, you can use them.

Regards,
Ted


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Jun 7, 9:24am, Dave & Libby Nelson wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Resin
Which raises another question: why is some people (myself included) find
the
friction of using the postal service (e.g., writing the letter, licking
the
stamp, etc.) sufficently off-putting as to have prevented placing an
order
directly with either Al or Martin?
I don't know, but I'm one of them. I have no problem whipping out an
email message to whomever, but ask me to print it out and mail it as a
letter, and I won't do it. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in my
psychosis.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Jun 7, 12:39pm, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Resin
Suppose I order a slow-moving kit? Martin probably doesn't want to make
a
single car just for me, so he cranks out 10 or 12 kits. Now he has an
inventory
problem! If people knew from the web site that a kit was available
immediately
would they be more likely to buy it (i.e. the impulse factor)?

Tim,

Isn't there another edge to that sword? In other words, isn't it
likely that people WON'T order items that are not in stock? This could
cause problems because then Martin would never know that people wanted the
item, since everyone is waiting for the website to show "in stock" before
they place their order.

Regards,

-Jeff


--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Petschallies, Thorsten <Thorsten.Petschallies@...>
 

Hello STMFC-Enthusiast,
my main reason for biding for those kits, is that this is an easy way to
get them. I used to live on the other side of the (Atlantic) pond.
For those kits on ebay, I don't have to write a letter, add everything
together correct, add shipping charges and send it by mail, engage my
bank to advise a partnership bank in the US to sent a check over to
Sunshine. Than hoping that both do arrive, waiting, waiting, waiting,
... until one day hopefully a parcel will show up.

With these (e-bay) kits I can use a credit card. That makes things much
easier.

It would help me if Sunshine had a fax number for orders. Any thing is
better then writing letters.
And if they were processing credit cards, like Westerfield is doing for
long and Funaro & Camerlengo is doing according to their latest flyer.
I think, that would boost their business at least with me.

Regarding other artists/manufacturers, I did almost not bids for any
kits from F&C because they are easy to get, and they offer pretty good 2
for 1 or polybag deals on a lot of kits. The bids are often far above
their offers.
And they seem to willing to reproduce kits, they once did for other
vendors. A while back I asked for the B&M Stock Cars, they once did for
Yankee Clipper, and they were willing to run a batch and now they are
offered in their latest flyer. And other kits done by them for Steam
Shack, Yankee Clipper and Rutland Car Shops do show up as well.

The Westerfield e-bay offers do most of the time have cars in them, that
do not fit into my era. That stops me from biding. And I have an easy
well working way to order them from Westerfield. (Mr. Al Westerfield the
business with you is always pleasing. Thank you.)

Thank you for reading
Thorsten
Germany


byronrose@...
 

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:24:18 -0700 "Dave & Libby Nelson"
<muskoka@ix.netcom.com> writes:



Which raises another question: why is some people (myself included)
find the
friction of using the postal service (e.g., writing the letter,
licking the
stamp, etc.) sufficently off-putting as to have prevented placing an
order
directly with either Al or Martin? Strange as it sounds, I think
this is
what is at the heart of those requests of Martin to get a web page
and/or
that both Al & Martin take orders directly thru the web.
Having ordered from both parties, I can provide a very slanted answer to
that, at least in the case of ordering from Martin Loftin. Because you
have to wait a minimum of three months to get your models. I can handle
a month, even a month and a half, but I feel that three months is just
too long a wait for any mail order, in spite of what the law says.

That hasn't stopped me from acquiring Sunshine Model kits, however.
Martin goes to enough shows that usually somebody I know can get me
almost anything I may want.

OTOH, except when he's away at a meeting, Al rarely takes more than 7-10
days to get an order back to me.

But I don't understand why anyone here should be imposing their desires
on the way someone like Martin does business. I frankly don't blame him
for wanting to stay off the web. I sometimes regret just getting on an
email list like this one when there's 30-40 messages to read each day and
I've got a set of X-23 patterns crying out to me to finish them. The
whole internet experience can be very intimidating for someone who's
never used it on a regular basis and has to start with a copy of
"Internet for Idiots!" I'd have no interest in doing it, but if someone
like Al enjoys playing with computers, and he certainly does, more power
to him. Also more megahertz and gigabytes, too. But who the heck are we
to demand that Martin Loftin get an internet site so that we won't be
inconvenienced by needing to pick up a phone and actually place a call to
a real live person.

GET A LIFE.

BSR




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

If you are going to do mail order for Al's kits you'll get a better deal
from Matt at:

Between the Bookends
6320 C Baseline Road
Little Rock, AR. 72209

or mdillow@arkansas.net

But next time you visit the Bay Area I'm sure you won't regret a visit to
the Train Shop in Santa Clara. Great selection of books. Usually well
stocked with top of the line HO. Better than, say Mitchells on the east
coast, to name one of the larger stores I've visited. Not much brass here
anymore tho.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: dixierails [mailto:dixierails@artddc.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 1:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Resin


Dave,
Could you provide me with an address and perhaps a phone number of the
"Train Shop" and whether they have a mail order or phone order
side of their
business. I have a need for a dozen or so of Al's kits and I'd
love to find
somewhere that offered them at any size of a discount. Thanks.
Larry Sexton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@ix.netcom.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Resin




-----Original Message-----
5 miles from my house is the Train Shop of Santa Clara CA., which
normally has 200-300 Westerfield kits in stock (at discounted prices).

Dave Nelson


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billd@...
 

Byron,

I simply made a sugestion that Martin look into a
website...I felt that it would be a good way to showcase his
work, avoid sending out sheaf after sheaf of catalogue pages
and so forth...if he choses to ignore it, fine. I don't have
a problem with it.

However, having said that, it would be very convienent for
me to check out what he's currently producing, may produce
in the future, or has out of production by simply clicking
on an icon or two. He can always farm out the webwork...I
feel it might even lead to increased sales...and we all know
where that slippery slope leads to!

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:17:50 -0400
byronrose@juno.com wrote:


On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:24:18 -0700 "Dave & Libby Nelson"
<muskoka@ix.netcom.com> writes:



Which raises another question: why is some people
(myself included)
find the
friction of using the postal service (e.g., writing the
letter,
licking the
stamp, etc.) sufficently off-putting as to have
prevented placing an
order
directly with either Al or Martin? Strange as it
sounds, I think
this is
what is at the heart of those requests of Martin to get
a web page
and/or
that both Al & Martin take orders directly thru the
web.

Having ordered from both parties, I can provide a very
slanted answer to
that, at least in the case of ordering from Martin
Loftin. Because you
have to wait a minimum of three months to get your
models. I can handle
a month, even a month and a half, but I feel that three
months is just
too long a wait for any mail order, in spite of what the
law says.

That hasn't stopped me from acquiring Sunshine Model
kits, however.
Martin goes to enough shows that usually somebody I know
can get me
almost anything I may want.

OTOH, except when he's away at a meeting, Al rarely takes
more than 7-10
days to get an order back to me.

But I don't understand why anyone here should be imposing
their desires
on the way someone like Martin does business. I frankly
don't blame him
for wanting to stay off the web. I sometimes regret just
getting on an
email list like this one when there's 30-40 messages to
read each day and
I've got a set of X-23 patterns crying out to me to
finish them. The
whole internet experience can be very intimidating for
someone who's
never used it on a regular basis and has to start with a
copy of
"Internet for Idiots!" I'd have no interest in doing it,
but if someone
like Al enjoys playing with computers, and he certainly
does, more power
to him. Also more megahertz and gigabytes, too. But who
the heck are we
to demand that Martin Loftin get an internet site so that
we won't be
inconvenienced by needing to pick up a phone and actually
place a call to
a real live person.

GET A LIFE.

BSR




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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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Peter Reinhold <paintplustrains@...>
 

Hi Guys,

Been following this resin thread and would like to offer up a comment or
two.
I get the feeling from Martin that he is very happy doing business the way
he does. In case you haven't noticed he gets to travel to several model RR
related events a year on the company's tab. He is doing something I must
believe he enjoys doing for a living. And, if I'm any example of the
average modeler, I would be hard pressed to run out of unbuilt kits in the
three months Martin, at times, take to deliver the goods.

Pete Reinhold, hoping the flames are not too hard on the unbuilt kits!!


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Isn't there another edge to that sword? In other words, isn't it
likely that people WON'T order items that are not in stock?
No. ;o)

Haven't you ever "back-ordered" something from Walthers? Or put
in a reservation for a piece of brass? Model railroaders are used
to waiting, and waiting, and waiting...


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Strange as it sounds, I think this is
what is at the heart of those requests of Martin to get a web page and/or
that both Al & Martin take orders directly thru the web.

Dave Nelson
Dave - The price of the "market basket" service is too great for a company
as small as ours. Believe me, we've checked it out. The program we use for
our web page can be upgraded to allow this but only using the captive
service offered by the program writer. And our catalog is so extensive we
couldn't change it too another service.

Hobby shops routinely order by email because they have accounts with us.
We'd be willing to do so for modelers as long as we know you.
Alternatively, some folks have ordered by sending their credit card info
broken up in several emails. - Al


westerfield <westerfield@...>
 


Suppose I order a slow-moving kit?
Martin may operate that way but we don't. We don't batch except for brand
new kits or for a show. Otherwise, if you order it, we make it for you on a
FIFO basis. We rarely take longer than 10 days to turn an order around. -
Al Westerfield


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Al, since there is a rumor you're interested in computers (Byron
started it!) you might look into encrypted email using Public/Private
Key (RSA) technology. It's very easy really. You give customers your
Public Key, and they can use that to encrypt credit card numbers and
anything else. ONLY YOU can decrypt the messages, using your Private
Key, which you do not distribute. (The Public Key could be published
on your web page for example.) [ This is essentially how secure web
pages work, BTW. ]

I have a program loaded on my system called PGP -- for "Pretty Good
Privacy". It works with my Eudora email software; you can probably
find something like it to work with your email software.


Hobby shops routinely order by email because they have accounts with us.
We'd be willing to do so for modelers as long as we know you.
Alternatively, some folks have ordered by sending their credit card info
broken up in several emails. - Al

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts