The reefer book is titled "Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series,
Volume Two, REFRIGERATOR CARS, Ice Bunker Cars 1884-1979" and was written by
C. Keith Jordan, Richard Hendrickson, John B. Moore and A. Dean Hale. The
Santa Fe Railway Historical and Model Society sold out of this book earlier
this year. However, you should be able to find a copy by checking with a few
hobby shops and/or book dealers. It might take a little search, but I think
you should be able to locate a copy after hitting a few spots. This book
contains a list of Slogan assignments by class of car and car number.

The Society also published "Santa Fe Railway Painting and Lettering Guide".
This book contains a 3 page listing of slogans applied to individual Santa Fe
Box, Auto and Refrigerator cars. This book is available from the Society.
You can orders a copy on line by going to www.atsfrr.net.

Ed Dabler

Hello all, I have a question regarding the IM Rr-__ reefers. Was there any
rhyme or reason to the slogan applied to a particular car? I am an M&StL
modeler and need a few reefers for friut & veggie service. I have two of
the Rr-21s that had the large herald and want to put the straight line map
and slogan on instead. I am modelling 1952. TIA,

Joe binish
joebinish@...

Joe:

The response often given to would-be PFE modelers
applies equally as well here: "Buy the book!"

There is an excellent book on the SFRD fleet that is a
required part of any railroad library. It answers the
question you posed, plus many, many others. (I don't
have it in front of me so I can't answer your
question) It is available from some hobby shops and
also from the Santa Fe HS. While you're at it, you
should complete the hat trick by getting the other two
books on ATSF box cars and auto/furniture cars. There
are others as well, including stock cars, freight car
rosters and lettering, although some are more for the
dedicated ATSF modeler.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

Ted sez:

The response often given to would-be PFE modelers
applies equally as well here: "Buy the book!"

There is an excellent book on the SFRD fleet that is a
required part of any railroad library. It answers the
question you posed, plus many, many others. (I don't
have it in front of me so I can't answer your
question) It is available from some hobby shops and
also from the Santa Fe HS. While you're at it, you
should complete the hat trick by getting the other two
books on ATSF box cars and auto/furniture cars. There
are others as well, including stock cars, freight car
rosters and lettering, although some are more for the
dedicated ATSF modeler.

So Ted,

What would be the name of "the book" <G>? I just checked the historical
society web page (http://www.atsfrr.com/) and both the box car and
furniture car books are listed and in stock...the reefer book is not listed
at all.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Holy Bat Dung, Batman...

It must be gone! Poof!!! I have a copy at home and it covers the Santa Fe reefers...not quite as in depth as the PFE book, but it still is quite good and a valuable resource...I hope the Santa Fe group decides to reprint it.

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:42:07 -0600
"Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@...> wrote:

Ted sez:

The response often given to would-be PFE modelers
applies equally as well here: "Buy the book!"

There is an excellent book on the SFRD fleet that is a
required part of any railroad library. It answers the
question you posed, plus many, many others. (I don't
have it in front of me so I can't answer your
question) It is available from some hobby shops and
also from the Santa Fe HS. While you're at it, you
should complete the hat trick by getting the other two
books on ATSF box cars and auto/furniture cars. There
are others as well, including stock cars, freight car
rosters and lettering, although some are more for the
dedicated ATSF modeler.

So Ted,

What would be the name of "the book" <G>? I just checked the historical
society web page (http://www.atsfrr.com/) and both the box car and
furniture car books are listed and in stock...the reefer book is not listed
at all.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I don't have listed WHAT cars got what slogans, but I did post a brief
summary of WHEN each slogan was used, taken from the information from
Richard and others, at:
http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Paint/Paint-A.html
This is partially for me, so I don't have to look this stuff up each time
when writing about various kits elsewhere on our web site. - John

The book is:

Jordan, C. Keith, Richard H. Hendrickson, John B. Moore, and Dean Hale.
Refrigerator Cars. Norman, OK: Santa Fe Modelers Organization, 1994.

Yes, it is sold out from Society stock. Some dealers may still have copies.
However, for your question, the painting and lettering guide may be of more
help since it covers the paint scheme of all ATSF equipment. It is $30 and
can be found at http://www.atsfrr.com/store/book1.htm

*******************************************************
J. Stephen Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX, 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417
Personal home page: http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/index.htm
Railroad home page: http://www.trainweb.org/jssand
Church home page: http://www.swcentral.org
Webmaster: http://atsfrr.net

Joe Binish wrote:

Hello all, I have a question regarding the IM Rr-__ reefers. Was there any
rhyme or reason to the slogan applied to a particular car? I am an M&StL
modeler and need a few reefers for friut & veggie service. I have two of
the Rr-21s that had the large herald and want to put the straight line map
and slogan on instead. I am modelling 1952. TIA,

Joe, the books you've been referred to are the right sources. However,
asking you to buy a book so you can correctly model a couple of SFRD
reefers is a bit like asking me to buy a whole book on M&StL freight cars
so I can model a box car and a gondola. So here, briefly, is what you need
to know.

The IM model is correct for classes Rr-19 through Rr-27 and can also be
used for the Rr-28 and Rr-32 classes by removing the parts of the hatch
platforms that surround the hatch covers, leaving just the rectangular
sections of the platforms inboard of the hatch covers.

The map/slogan stenciling was first applied in 1/40, so cars built prior to
that didn't get it when newly rebuilt (i.e., classes Rr-19, Rr-21, Rr-23,
Rr-25, and some Rr-27s). Later Rr-27s got slogans and curved line maps,
Rr-28s got slogans and early straight line maps, and Rr-32s were the first
of the rebuilt reefers to have the final version of the straight line map
when delivered. For these classes, slogan assignments are known. But most
of the earlier cars and many Rr-27s through Rr-32s were repainted with maps
and slogans before mid-1947, and in those cases the only way to know which
slogans went on which cars is to have photographic evidence. Fortunately,
a fair amount of it exists. (Another detail is that cars repainted before
1944 hads periods in the S.F.R.D. reporting marks; after that the periods
were dropped and the reporting marks were S F R D)

Bear in mind also that cars repainted after mid-1947 did not get maps and
slogans, they were stenciled with the later style slogans and "Ship and
Travel..." replacing the maps. So by 1952, the surviving map/slogan cars
would have been pretty dirty and well weathered; cleaner SFRD reefers had
the later slogan scheme. You might consider doing one of each. Champ's
decal sets for both versions of SFRD lettering are excellent and contain
everything you need, even the reporting marks and numbers for the top of
the ice hatch covers.

Here are some car number/slogan match-ups that have been verified from
photographic evidence. In some cases, I can provide JPEGs of the photos.

Early Style Slogans Left Side, Straight Line Maps Right Side

Rr-19 31375 Grand Canyon Line (periods in rptg. marks, photo '54)

Rr-23 32672 Grand Canyon Line (periods, photo '60s)

Rr-23 32670 Scout (no periods, rptd. 9/46)

Rr-23 32143 El Capitan (No periods, photo '54)

Rr-23 32433 Chief (periods, rptd. WC 7/43)

Rr-32 35892 Super Chief (periods, new 1940)

Rr-32 35574 Scout (periods, photo early '50s, v. dirty)

Rr-32 35723 El Capitan (periods, photo '48)

Late Style Slogans Left Side, "Ship and Travel...." Right Side

Rr-23 33055 Chief (rptd. San Berd'o 2-52)

Rr-25 33538 Chief (photo '53)

Rr-28 35066 Grand Canyon Line (photo '53)





Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard,

Do you realize that what you wrote probably took you all of 7 minutes and
you did it off the top of your head. If any of us tried to put that
amount of information down for Joe it would have taken us about 2 hours.
Or in my case, 2 days, I'm a very slow typist.

So my question to you is: why did it take you so long to jump in here
with what is so obviously the correct answer?

(Okay, so imagine I put a happy face somewhere on this page!)

BSR


On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:07:11 -0800 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...> writes:

Joe Binish wrote:

Hello all, I have a question regarding the IM Rr-__ reefers. Was

there any

rhyme or reason to the slogan applied to a particular car? I am an

M&StL

modeler and need a few reefers for friut & veggie service. I have

two of

the Rr-21s that had the large herald and want to put the straight

line map

and slogan on instead. I am modelling 1952. TIA,

Joe, the books you've been referred to are the right sources.
However,
asking you to buy a book so you can correctly model a couple of SFRD
reefers is a bit like asking me to buy a whole book on M&StL freight
cars
so I can model a box car and a gondola. So here, briefly, is what
you need
to know.

The IM model is correct for classes Rr-19 through Rr-27 and can also
be
used for the Rr-28 and Rr-32 classes by removing the parts of the
hatch
platforms that surround the hatch covers, leaving just the
rectangular
sections of the platforms inboard of the hatch covers.

The map/slogan stenciling was first applied in 1/40, so cars built
prior to
that didn't get it when newly rebuilt (i.e., classes Rr-19, Rr-21,
Rr-23,
Rr-25, and some Rr-27s). Later Rr-27s got slogans and curved line
maps,
Rr-28s got slogans and early straight line maps, and Rr-32s were the
first
of the rebuilt reefers to have the final version of the straight
line map
when delivered. For these classes, slogan assignments are known.
But most
of the earlier cars and many Rr-27s through Rr-32s were repainted
with maps
and slogans before mid-1947, and in those cases the only way to know
which
slogans went on which cars is to have photographic evidence.
Fortunately,
a fair amount of it exists. (Another detail is that cars repainted
before
1944 hads periods in the S.F.R.D. reporting marks; after that the
periods
were dropped and the reporting marks were S F R D)

Bear in mind also that cars repainted after mid-1947 did not get
maps and
slogans, they were stenciled with the later style slogans and "Ship
and
Travel..." replacing the maps. So by 1952, the surviving map/slogan
cars
would have been pretty dirty and well weathered; cleaner SFRD
reefers had
the later slogan scheme. You might consider doing one of each.
Champ's
decal sets for both versions of SFRD lettering are excellent and
contain
everything you need, even the reporting marks and numbers for the
top of
the ice hatch covers.

Here are some car number/slogan match-ups that have been verified
from
photographic evidence. In some cases, I can provide JPEGs of the
photos.

Early Style Slogans Left Side, Straight Line Maps Right Side

Rr-19 31375 Grand Canyon Line (periods in rptg. marks, photo '54)

Rr-23 32672 Grand Canyon Line (periods, photo '60s)

Rr-23 32670 Scout (no periods, rptd. 9/46)

Rr-23 32143 El Capitan (No periods, photo '54)

Rr-23 32433 Chief (periods, rptd. WC 7/43)

Rr-32 35892 Super Chief (periods, new 1940)

Rr-32 35574 Scout (periods, photo early '50s, v. dirty)

Rr-32 35723 El Capitan (periods, photo '48)

Late Style Slogans Left Side, "Ship and Travel...." Right Side

Rr-23 33055 Chief (rptd. San Berd'o 2-52)

Rr-25 33538 Chief (photo '53)

Rr-28 35066 Grand Canyon Line (photo '53)





Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

So my question to you is: why did it take you so long to jump in here
with what is so obviously the correct answer?

I was busy (re-organizing my photo collection, as a matter of fact, and
filing all the new photos I collected at Naperville) so I didn't see the
message for several hours.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Get some rest Tony, I hope that you recover soon!......Gary

My friend Joe said he wanted to haul "fruit & veggies" in his SFRD
reefers. The car loads that appear on the M&StL 'setout list' are
interesting. Of the 25 cars setout between 1948 and 1950, 20 were loaded
with potatoes and most were on the railroad in Jan, Feb, or March. From
the train numbers and setout locations, I'd guess they were hauling
Minnesota potatoes south.
Clark
P.S. Thanks Richard for your in-depth answer, but I'm afraid there is no
M&StL freight car book.

joebinish@... wrote:

Hello all, I have a question regarding the IM Rr-__ reefers. Was
there any
rhyme or reason to the slogan applied to a particular car? I am an
M&StL
modeler and need a few reefers for friut & veggie service. I have two
of
the Rr-21s that had the large herald and want to put the straight line
map
and slogan on instead. I am modelling 1952. TIA,

Joe binish
joebinish@...



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Clark Propst writes:

P.S. Thanks Richard for your in-depth answer, but I'm afraid there is no
M&StL freight car book.

If you and Joe and Gene Green and a few others get your heads together,
maybe there will be!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a reference to a book is permissible on this
list. The elitism! the snobbery! think of the repercussions. Think I gotta
go lie down now.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Actually there is a forthcoming Morning Sun in Color book on CNW
predecessor roads freight cars, except for the CGW. If any one has
anything to contribute, please! We faithful few have urged the 'fanatic
one' (Gene Green) to do an M&StL freight car paper back book with b&w
pictures too. But, I think the taliban is more open mined than our good
friend!
Clark

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Clark Propst writes:

P.S. Thanks Richard for your in-depth answer, but I'm afraid there is

no

M&StL freight car book.

If you and Joe and Gene Green and a few others get your heads
together,
maybe there will be!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Yeah Tony, and the author is even a member of the STMFC list. Just think
how shocked you'd be if the publisher were also on the list!

BTW, what does all that www stuff after your name mean?

BS


On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:38:26 -0800 thompson@... writes:

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a reference to a book is permissible on
this
list. The elitism! the snobbery! think of the repercussions. Think I
gotta
go lie down now.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Clark Probst wrote:

Actually there is a forthcoming Morning Sun in Color book on CNW
predecessor roads freight cars, except for the CGW. If any one has
anything to contribute, please! We faithful few have urged the 'fanatic
one' (Gene Green) to do an M&StL freight car paper back book with b&w
pictures too. But, I think the taliban is more open mined than our good
friend!

I understand the attraction of color books, but for the steam era most of
the available photos are b/w, so someone needs to do a good b/w photo book
on M&StL freight cars. My quarrel with the color books is that, if older
equipment is shown at all, it's usually shown in an advanced state of
deterioration and/or in a late paint/lettering scheme. For modeling
purposes, b/w photos are fine as long as you know which cars were mineral
red and which ones were black.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

On Nov 15, 10:38pm, thompson@... wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] SFRD slogans
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a reference to a book is permissible on

this

list. The elitism! the snobbery! think of the repercussions. Think I

gotta

go lie down now.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

Tony,

As deputy moderator, I'd be happy to unsubscribe you if you find
this practice undesirable.


Regards,

-Jeff "Where'd I put my bullet?" Aley

P.S. Please be more temperate in your future postings. I notice that you
used at least two words with > 3 syllables. This list is meant to cater
to all modellers, regardless of their brain power.

P.P.S. No, wait; that's another list. Sorry -- disregard my P.S.

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Byron Rose asked:

BTW, what does all that www stuff after your name mean?

If you gotta ask, Byron, I doubt I can explain it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

The Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society webpage is www.atsfrr.org
not .com. The .com site includes Russell Crump's extensive collection of
Santa Fe material, but the Society's stuff is at .org or .net.

Eric Hiser