New England Coal & Coke


Earl Tuson
 

Wayner's Freight Car Pictorial has, on page 13, a picture of steel twin hopper
NECX 1184. It is stated on the car side to return when empty to Grantown, WV,
located on the B&O. The 10/1919 ORER shows 600 cars listed for NECX, HM
1001-1600, with 30' IL, 9'5 1/2" IW, 7'3 1/4" IH(!?!,) and 1770 cuft capy.
There it is stated that the cars should be returned when empty to Fairmont, WV,
only 12 miles from Grantown, also on the B&O. My 7/31 ORER, however, no longer
shows a listing for NECX. I had suspected these cars may have been sold second
hand to the B&O, but I cannot identify a series at that listing that would be a
match. Does anyone know what happened to the NECX cars? New England Coal &
Coke did continue to operate for many more decades, so I don't see a corporate
failure and auction as a possibility, but rather a divestiture of that branch
of the operation.

Have a great holiday everyone!

Earl Tuson

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Ian Cranstone
 

From: Earl Tuson <etuson@...>
Wayner's Freight Car Pictorial has, on page 13, a picture of steel twin hopper
NECX 1184. It is stated on the car side to return when empty to Grantown, WV,
located on the B&O. The 10/1919 ORER shows 600 cars listed for NECX, HM
1001-1600, with 30' IL, 9'5 1/2" IW, 7'3 1/4" IH(!?!,) and 1770 cuft capy.
There it is stated that the cars should be returned when empty to Fairmont,
WV,
only 12 miles from Grantown, also on the B&O. My 7/31 ORER, however, no
longer
shows a listing for NECX. I had suspected these cars may have been sold
second
hand to the B&O, but I cannot identify a series at that listing that would be
a
match. Does anyone know what happened to the NECX cars? New England Coal &
Coke did continue to operate for many more decades, so I don't see a corporate
failure and auction as a possibility, but rather a divestiture of that branch
of the operation.
I had a quick look through my old ORERs to see if I could fine-tune the
disappearance date a little. The upshot is that I see no trace of the NECX
cars in my oldest issue (August 1922), so it seems likely that these cars
found a new home fairly shortly after your 10/19. Since the photo shows a
car built by Cambria Steel in 1912, the cars must have soldiered on for at
least a few more years after 1919.

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@... (note change: was lamontc@...)


tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Earl,

You wrote:

Wayner's Freight Car Pictorial has, on page 13, a picture of steel
twin hopper
NECX 1184. It is stated on the car side to return when empty to
Grantown, WV,
located on the B&O. The 10/1919 ORER shows 600 cars listed for NECX,
HM
1001-1600, with 30' IL, 9'5 1/2" IW, 7'3 1/4" IH(!?!,) and 1770 cuft
capy.
There it is stated that the cars should be returned when empty to
Fairmont, WV,
only 12 miles from Grantown, also on the B&O. My 7/31 ORER, however,
no longer
shows a listing for NECX. I had suspected these cars may have been
sold second
hand to the B&O, but I cannot identify a series at that listing that
would be a
match. Does anyone know what happened to the NECX cars? New England
Coal &
Coke did continue to operate for many more decades, so I don't see a
corporate
failure and auction as a possibility, but rather a divestiture of that
branch
of the operation.

Have a great holiday everyone!

Earl Tuson

Like your 8/31 ORER, there was no mention of the New England Coal & Coke
in either the 8/25 or 7/31 ORER.

The NEC&C was controlled by the Koppers Corporation as was Eastern Fuel
& Gas in Everett MA, and the Mystic Steamship Co. (once called the New
England Steamship Co.). I do not know when Koppers bought NEC&C, or
whether NEC&C's disappearance from the ORER's was a matter of "corporate
restructuring" in the early 1920's.

The NECX #1001-1600 series hoppers seem to have been employed in
carrying "Koppers'" Coal from mines in northern West Virginia to the
B&O's Curtiss Pier in Baltimore where the coal was transshipped to
colliers and/or schooner barges for the trip to New England.

From the list of Ship Arrivals in the Port of Boston between April 1st
and 15th, 1923, there was only one Schooner Barge carrying coal from
Baltimore. Most of the coal arriving from New England from West Virginia
seemed to have been transshipped from Norfolk and Newport News which
were N&W, VGN and C&O ports.

(New York Harbor and Philadelphia were other transshipment points for
coal to New England - it was conceivable that the "NEC&C" could have
used the B&O-RDG-CNJ routing to access these ports, but none of the
vessels employed in this trade in the first two weeks of April 1923 were
owned by the Mystic Steamship Co. or the New England Steamship Co.
predecessor.)

In the 8/25 ORER, there were the following hoppers listed for Koppers.

135 SBPX 15112-15850 30'6" IL, 1,880 CF
550 KOPX 100-750 30'6" IL, 1,880 CF

(SBPX - Seaboard By Product Coke Co.)
(KOPX - Chicago By Product Coke Co. and Koppers Co. - flats only)

In the 7/31 ORER, the following listings for Koppers:

248 SBPX 100-347 30'6" IL, 1,880 CF
99 SBPX 400-498 38,10" IL, 2,546 CF

(SBPX renamed to Koppers Coal Co.)
(KOPX renamed to Koppers Construction Co. - flats only)

The above, however, does not answer your question of what happened to
the NECX #1001-1600 series. Rather than being sold to the B&O, another
possibility was that this series was relegated to some "in-plant"
service at some Koppers' facility - probably facilities more correct.

Sorry I was not more of a help, but Merry Christmas anyway.

Tim


Ian Cranstone
 

From: tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
In the 8/25 ORER, there were the following hoppers listed for Koppers.

135 SBPX 15112-15850 30'6" IL, 1,880 CF
550 KOPX 100-750 30'6" IL, 1,880 CF

(SBPX - Seaboard By Product Coke Co.)
(KOPX - Chicago By Product Coke Co. and Koppers Co. - flats only)

In the 7/31 ORER, the following listings for Koppers:

248 SBPX 100-347 30'6" IL, 1,880 CF
99 SBPX 400-498 38,10" IL, 2,546 CF

(SBPX renamed to Koppers Coal Co.)
(KOPX renamed to Koppers Construction Co. - flats only)
Following Tim's reasoning, I looked up the Koppers listing in the 8/22 ORER,
and it shows the following:

99 KOPX 15001-15100 38'10" IL, 2546 CF
898 KOPX 15101-16000 30'6" IL, 1880 CF

SBPX reporting marks were not in use then, but the Seaboard By Product Coke
Co. name was, with KOPX reporting marks.

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@... (note change: was lamontc@...)


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Earl Tuson wrote

It is stated on the car side to return when empty to Grantown, WV
Earl, I can't help you at all with the hopper, but I'm fairly
certain that should be Grafton, WV!

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Has anyone got a good broadside photo of a New England Coal and Coke
hopper which clearly shows its logo, or can point me towards such info.
I realize that Bev-Bel did paint some Athearn cars in this scheme
several decades ago, but I would like to make up decals for these cars,
especially since there are much more accurate hoppers available
(AccuRail USRA, Bowser PRR GLa, ??).

Thanks and happy holidays to all,

Max
-----------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@...

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973-627-5895 / 973-627-5460 / 973-586-4310
cell.: 201-404-4075
-----------------------------------------------------


Earl Tuson
 

From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@...>

Earl, I can't help you at all with the hopper, but I'm fairly
certain that should be Grafton, WV!
No, Tim, it can be easily read in the photo. Actually, I did spell it wrong,
though. According to the 1948 Handy Railroad Atlas of the United States, it
should be Grant Town, located at the end of a 7 mile B&O branch, departing from
the main 5 miles north of Fairmont at Rivesville.

Earl Tuson

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James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Wayner's Freight Car Pictorial has, on page 13, a picture of steel twin
hopper NECX 1184. It is stated on the car side to return when empty to
Grantown, WV, located on the B&O. The 10/1919 ORER shows 600 cars listed
for NECX, HM 1001-1600, with 30' IL, 9'5 1/2" IW, 7'3 1/4" IH(!?!,) and
1770 cuft capy.
These are just about the archetypal example of the "early standard"
hopper design, in this case a 10'6"-eh version. The inside height is
measured either from the rivet row attaching the hopper bay to the side
sheets, or more likely, the top of the end sill.

I think they became B&O class N18 (323451-323999) in 1920 or 1921, as
the dimensions, cubic capacity, and build date in B&O's 1922 equipment
guide match the NECX cars (and are just a bit different from the N12
class, which was nominally identical).

David Thompson


James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Following Tim's reasoning, I looked up the Koppers listing in the 8/22
ORER, and it shows the following:
99 KOPX 15001-15100 38'10" IL, 2546 CF
898 KOPX 15101-16000 30'6" IL, 1880 CF
I hadn't realized it before, but KOPX 15001-15100 look like they might be
clones of C&O's bathtub quads.

David Thompson


rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., James D Thompson <jaydeet@i...> wrote:

Wayner's Freight Car Pictorial has, on page 13, a picture of steel
twin
hopper NECX 1184. It is stated on the car side to return when
empty to
Grantown, WV, located on the B&O. The 10/1919 ORER shows 600 cars
listed
for NECX, HM 1001-1600, with 30' IL, 9'5 1/2" IW, 7'3 1/4"
IH(!?!,) and
1770 cuft capy.
I think they became B&O class N18 (323451-323999) in 1920 or 1921,
as
the dimensions, cubic capacity, and build date in B&O's 1922
equipment
guide match the NECX cars (and are just a bit different from the N12
class, which was nominally identical).

David Thompson
Gentlemen I would like to return to the discussion of the New England
Coal & Coke hoppers.

I am trying to clarify the history of these hoppers cars and have
exchanged information with Eric Neubauer and John
Nehrich some time ago about these very cars.

The key is that these cars apparently passed through Bethlehem Steel
Co. (Bethlehem Mines) ownership prior to becoming
B&O Class N-18.

Eric found a note in the 2/1922 ORER for BMIX (Bethlehem Mines)
6000-6549 "see the B&O listing", but there is no
clarification in the B&O listing for that issue. Does anyone have
earlier issues of the ORER for 1920 and 1921 to help
clarify when these hopper cars apparently moved from NECX to BMIX?

The first record I have of B&O ownership is in the B&O Rolling Stock
Listing from March 1, 1922 that lists Class N-18
323451 to 323999. The cars are first listed in the B&O Summary of
Equipment beginning January 1, 1923 as Class N-18
549 cars which agrees with the information on the Eq. Diagram.

We need help filling the gap between 10/1919 and 03/1922 to attempt
to trace the ownership of these hoppers cars from
New England Coal & Coke to Bethlehem Mines to the B&O.

Thank you for any assistance.

Regards,

Bob Witt