Quesions about a depressed center flat car


Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started scratchbuilding
the depressed center flat car which is described in an ancient
Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad Freight Cars" and
sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of Model
Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years old as I'm sure
I bought it soon after it hit the market).

Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch" (I'd hate to
call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's capacities as
CAPY 190000
LdLmt. 195800
Lt. Wt 55200
new 12-47

and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.

I have two questions:
1. What might have been the prototype for this model, if any?
2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake gear located?

I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or anything like it.


Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

Thanks for the info. I'm still waiting for my MM issue.

Now if the original article was in fact based on a prototype that had
brake wheels at both ends, how would the motion from the one at the
end away from the valve/reservoir have been communicated to the brake
gear?

Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Carson <mbcarson@together.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat car


FWIW, the MR article on the depressed center flatcar
was published in February 1955.

The MM plans and accompanying photos show the single
reservoir & triple valve mounted on top of one of elevated
portions of the flat car near the brake wheel (the B end,
naturally).

Regards,

Mike Carson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 15:47
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat
car


: Norm,
:
: There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one on
each end. The rodding couldn't be bent around
: the depressed part of the frame. This means there should
also be two brake stands. It is possible that
: some cars of this type had truck-mounted brake cylinders
due to the tight space around the bolsters, but
: I can't swear to that.
:
: At least Athearn got this part right on their 4-truck flat
car. It has brake wheels at each end.
:
: I don't know about TPRX, but if this is a real reporting
mark, it will be in the ORER. The articles in
: the Kalmbach book largely date from the early 1950s, so
that is the approximate era to check.
:
: Kind regards,
:
:
: Garth G. Groff
:
:
: Norm Dresner wrote:
: >
: > As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started
scratchbuilding
: > the depressed center flat car which is described in an
ancient
: > Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad
Freight Cars" and
: > sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of
Model
: > Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years
old as I'm sure
: > I bought it soon after it hit the market).
: >
: > Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch"
(I'd hate to
: > call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's
capacities as
: > CAPY 190000
: > LdLmt. 195800
: > Lt. Wt 55200
: > new 12-47
: >
: > and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.
: >
: > I have two questions:
: > 1. What might have been the prototype for this
model, if any?
: > 2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake
gear located?
: >
: > I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or
anything like it.
: >
: >
: > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
: > STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
: >
: >
: >
: > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
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mbcarson2002
 

Norm,

Yup, the standards for freight car drawings have
come a long way since 1971 (especially since the depressed
center flat article was probably originally published in MR
earlier). By coincidence, there are plans for a Conrail 43
foot four axle depressed center flat car in the February
2002 issue of Mainline Modeler. The load limit for the
Conrail flat is 198300 lbs. with a light weight of 64700
lbs.

I presume the data shown on the car drawing in Kalmbach book
are notational (to be kind).

Regards,

Mike Carson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net>
To: "steamfreight" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 15:07
Subject: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat car


: As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started
scratchbuilding
: the depressed center flat car which is described in an
ancient
: Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad
Freight Cars" and
: sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of Model
: Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years old
as I'm sure
: I bought it soon after it hit the market).
:
: Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch"
(I'd hate to
: call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's
capacities as
: CAPY 190000
: LdLmt. 195800
: Lt. Wt 55200
: new 12-47
:
: and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.
:
: I have two questions:
: 1. What might have been the prototype for this model,
if any?
: 2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake
gear located?
:
: I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or anything
like it.
:
:
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:
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Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

I haven't seen the Feb issue yet. Martin Luther King, Jr's Monday is
probably getting in the way. And I agree about the dimensional
data -- I had assumed it was put there to show where real data might
have gone.
Thanks for the pointer
Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Carson <mbcarson@together.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat car


Norm,

Yup, the standards for freight car drawings have
come a long way since 1971 (especially since the depressed
center flat article was probably originally published in MR
earlier). By coincidence, there are plans for a Conrail 43
foot four axle depressed center flat car in the February
2002 issue of Mainline Modeler. The load limit for the
Conrail flat is 198300 lbs. with a light weight of 64700
lbs.

I presume the data shown on the car drawing in Kalmbach book
are notational (to be kind).

Regards,

Mike Carson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net>
To: "steamfreight" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 15:07
Subject: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat car


: As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started
scratchbuilding
: the depressed center flat car which is described in an
ancient
: Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad
Freight Cars" and
: sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of Model
: Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years old
as I'm sure
: I bought it soon after it hit the market).
:
: Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch"
(I'd hate to
: call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's
capacities as
: CAPY 190000
: LdLmt. 195800
: Lt. Wt 55200
: new 12-47
:
: and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.
:
: I have two questions:
: 1. What might have been the prototype for this model,
if any?
: 2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake
gear located?
:
: I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or anything
like it.
:
:
: ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
: Tiny Wireless Camera under $80!
: Order Now! FREE VCR Commander!
: Click Here - Only 1 Day Left!
: http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/9MtolB/TM
: ----------------------------------------------------------
-----------~->
:
: To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
: STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
:
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:


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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Norm,

There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one on each end. The rodding couldn't be bent around
the depressed part of the frame. This means there should also be two brake stands. It is possible that
some cars of this type had truck-mounted brake cylinders due to the tight space around the bolsters, but
I can't swear to that.

At least Athearn got this part right on their 4-truck flat car. It has brake wheels at each end.

I don't know about TPRX, but if this is a real reporting mark, it will be in the ORER. The articles in
the Kalmbach book largely date from the early 1950s, so that is the approximate era to check.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Norm Dresner wrote:


As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started scratchbuilding
the depressed center flat car which is described in an ancient
Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad Freight Cars" and
sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of Model
Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years old as I'm sure
I bought it soon after it hit the market).

Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch" (I'd hate to
call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's capacities as
CAPY 190000
LdLmt. 195800
Lt. Wt 55200
new 12-47

and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.

I have two questions:
1. What might have been the prototype for this model, if any?
2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake gear located?

I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or anything like it.


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

Garth.

The model definitely had brake wheels at either end and even though
I've been staring at this article for decades I never noticed it until
you just pointed it out. But DOH, of course if it had brake wheels at
either end it would stand to reason that it had dual brake gear as
well.

I suppose the various components of the brake set would be nestled
between the "center sill" and the side frames as best as they could.
Would there have been any sort of "standard" for this placement.

And, yes, since the "markings" on the drawing indicate "new 12-47" I'd
guess that we're looking at a post-war prototype.

Thanks for the information.
Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat car


Norm,

There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one on each end.
The rodding couldn't be bent around
the depressed part of the frame. This means there should also be two
brake stands. It is possible that
some cars of this type had truck-mounted brake cylinders due to the
tight space around the bolsters, but
I can't swear to that.

At least Athearn got this part right on their 4-truck flat car. It
has brake wheels at each end.

I don't know about TPRX, but if this is a real reporting mark, it
will be in the ORER. The articles in
the Kalmbach book largely date from the early 1950s, so that is the
approximate era to check.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Norm Dresner wrote:

As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started
scratchbuilding
the depressed center flat car which is described in an ancient
Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad Freight Cars"
and
sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of Model
Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years old as I'm
sure
I bought it soon after it hit the market).

Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch" (I'd hate
to
call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's capacities
as
CAPY 190000
LdLmt. 195800
Lt. Wt 55200
new 12-47

and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.

I have two questions:
1. What might have been the prototype for this model, if any?
2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake gear
located?

I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or anything like it.


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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thompson@...
 

Garth Groff said:
There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one on each end. The
rodding couldn't be bent around
the depressed part of the frame. This means there should also be two brake
stands.
The main reason for the two brake systems is the large car capacity.
Rodding could indeed be run under the depressed deck if need be.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


mbcarson2002
 

FWIW, the MR article on the depressed center flatcar
was published in February 1955.

The MM plans and accompanying photos show the single
reservoir & triple valve mounted on top of one of elevated
portions of the flat car near the brake wheel (the B end,
naturally).

Regards,

Mike Carson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 15:47
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat
car


: Norm,
:
: There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one on
each end. The rodding couldn't be bent around
: the depressed part of the frame. This means there should
also be two brake stands. It is possible that
: some cars of this type had truck-mounted brake cylinders
due to the tight space around the bolsters, but
: I can't swear to that.
:
: At least Athearn got this part right on their 4-truck flat
car. It has brake wheels at each end.
:
: I don't know about TPRX, but if this is a real reporting
mark, it will be in the ORER. The articles in
: the Kalmbach book largely date from the early 1950s, so
that is the approximate era to check.
:
: Kind regards,
:
:
: Garth G. Groff
:
:
: Norm Dresner wrote:
: >
: > As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started
scratchbuilding
: > the depressed center flat car which is described in an
ancient
: > Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad
Freight Cars" and
: > sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of
Model
: > Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years
old as I'm sure
: > I bought it soon after it hit the market).
: >
: > Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype "sketch"
(I'd hate to
: > call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving it's
capacities as
: > CAPY 190000
: > LdLmt. 195800
: > Lt. Wt 55200
: > new 12-47
: >
: > and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.
: >
: > I have two questions:
: > 1. What might have been the prototype for this
model, if any?
: > 2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake
gear located?
: >
: > I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or
anything like it.
: >
: >
: > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
: > STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
: >
: >
: >
: > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
: ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor ---------------------~-->
: Access Your PC from Anywhere
: It's Easy. It's Fun. - Free Download.
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: ----------------------------------------------------------
-----------~->
:
: To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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:
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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:
:


Norm Dresner <ndrez@...>
 

Wonderful information . Thanks
Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Cranstone <lamontc@nakina.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat car


From: "Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net>
I have two questions:
1. What might have been the prototype for this model, if any?
TPRX was the reporting mark of the Texas Power & Light Co., which
was listed
until the Jan. 1958 ORER (it reappeared in the 1980s). They listed
one car
in the Oct. 1949 ORER, namely depressed centre flat car TPRX 1.

2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake gear located?
Most of CN's older cars were constructed with components shoehorned
under
the end platforms -- I'm sure the intent was to keep the top clear
for
overlength loads. More recent cars have had to place some
components on top
of the span bolsters, but the use of truck-mounted brake cylinders
has
reduced the number to place. As others have already noted, it was
extremely
common for these cars to have two completely separate brake systems,
one at
each end.

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net


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Ian Cranstone
 

From: "Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net>
I have two questions:
1. What might have been the prototype for this model, if any?
TPRX was the reporting mark of the Texas Power & Light Co., which was listed
until the Jan. 1958 ORER (it reappeared in the 1980s). They listed one car
in the Oct. 1949 ORER, namely depressed centre flat car TPRX 1.

2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake gear located?
Most of CN's older cars were constructed with components shoehorned under
the end platforms -- I'm sure the intent was to keep the top clear for
overlength loads. More recent cars have had to place some components on top
of the span bolsters, but the use of truck-mounted brake cylinders has
reduced the number to place. As others have already noted, it was extremely
common for these cars to have two completely separate brake systems, one at
each end.

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net


mbcarson2002
 

Norm,

Although I am not certain, I don't see why a
mechanical system of rodding, chains, and springs couldn't
be designed to pass under the depressed center section and
connect the two sections of the braking system. The train
airline is probably the simplest part of the part of the
puzzle. The details of the brake rodding are usually poorly
documented on most plan sets I have seen.

Regards,

Mike Carson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net>
To: <mbcarson@together.net>
Cc: "steamfreight" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 15:30
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center flat
car


: Thanks for the info. I'm still waiting for my MM issue.
:
: Now if the original article was in fact based on a
prototype that had
: brake wheels at both ends, how would the motion from the
one at the
: end away from the valve/reservoir have been communicated
to the brake
: gear?
:
: Norm
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: Michael Carson <mbcarson@together.net>
: To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
: Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:24 PM
: Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center
flat car
:
:
: > FWIW, the MR article on the depressed center
flatcar
: > was published in February 1955.
: >
: > The MM plans and accompanying photos show the
single
: > reservoir & triple valve mounted on top of one of
elevated
: > portions of the flat car near the brake wheel (the B
end,
: > naturally).
: >
: > Regards,
: >
: > Mike Carson
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
: > To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
: > Sent: Monday, 21 January, 2002 15:47
: > Subject: Re: [STMFC] Quesions about a depressed center
flat
: > car
: >
: >
: > : Norm,
: > :
: > : There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one
on
: > each end. The rodding couldn't be bent around
: > : the depressed part of the frame. This means there
should
: > also be two brake stands. It is possible that
: > : some cars of this type had truck-mounted brake
cylinders
: > due to the tight space around the bolsters, but
: > : I can't swear to that.
: > :
: > : At least Athearn got this part right on their 4-truck
flat
: > car. It has brake wheels at each end.
: > :
: > : I don't know about TPRX, but if this is a real
reporting
: > mark, it will be in the ORER. The articles in
: > : the Kalmbach book largely date from the early 1950s,
so
: > that is the approximate era to check.
: > :
: > : Kind regards,
: > :
: > :
: > : Garth G. Groff
: > :
: > :
: > : Norm Dresner wrote:
: > : >
: > : > As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I
started
: > scratchbuilding
: > : > the depressed center flat car which is described in
an
: > ancient
: > : > Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad
: > Freight Cars" and
: > : > sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of
: > Model
: > : > Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30
years
: > old as I'm sure
: > : > I bought it soon after it hit the market).
: > : >
: > : > Anyway, there's what purports to be a prototype
"sketch"
: > (I'd hate to
: > : > call it a drawing) with the markings "TPRX" giving
it's
: > capacities as
: > : > CAPY 190000
: > : > LdLmt. 195800
: > : > Lt. Wt 55200
: > : > new 12-47
: > : >
: > : > and showing a car with two two-axle trucks.
: > : >
: > : > I have two questions:
: > : > 1. What might have been the prototype for this
: > model, if any?
: > : > 2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the
brake
: > gear located?
: > : >
: > : > I'd appreciate any information on this car -- or
: > anything like it.
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
: > : > STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
: > : >
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
: > :
: > : ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
: > Sponsor ---------------------~-->
: > : Access Your PC from Anywhere
: > : It's Easy. It's Fun. - Free Download.
: > :
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: >
: ----------------------------------------------------------
: > -----------~->
: > :
: > : To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
: > : STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
: > :
: > :
: > :
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: > :
: > :
: >
: >
: > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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: >
: >
:
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:


byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:58:22 -0800 thompson@signaturepress.com writes:
Garth Groff said:
There should be two sets of AB brakes on this car, one on each end.
The
rodding couldn't be bent around
the depressed part of the frame. This means there should also be
two brake
stands.
The main reason for the two brake systems is the large car
capacity.
Rodding could indeed be run under the depressed deck if need be.

Tony, do you really think that it takes two sets of AB brakes to control
a 95 ton capacity car?

Would you really want your brake rodding and levers no more than 12
inches above railhead?

Would you want that car in your train when a piece of scrap at a grade
crossing ripped half of the system off at 65 mph going down grade?

BSR



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byronrose@...
 

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:07:59 -0500 "Norm Dresner" <ndrez@att.net> writes:
As an excuse for trying out my new bandsaw, I started scratchbuilding
the depressed center flat car which is described in an ancient
Kalmbach book entitled "Easy-to-Build Model Railroad Freight Cars"
and
sub-titled "24 Dollar Car Projects from the pages of Model
Railroader". (This book is (C) 1971, a mere 30 years old as I'm
sure
I bought it soon after it hit the market).
I have two questions:
1. What might have been the prototype for this model, if any?
2. Where on a depressed-center flat car is the brake gear
located?

Norm (and some of you clods who haven't a clue as to how we got where we
are),

That book, and the articles written in that series in MR during the 50s
and 60s on which it was based, are as responsible as any other single
factor for the beautiful and accurate freight car models we enjoy today.
The models were usually very accurate, more so than most contemporary
kits, and introduced modelers to car types other than the generic and
fanciful box cars and reefers represented by Athearn and Varney kits.

I would have no reason to dispute any of the prototype data represented
in any of the articles, they were usually taken from cars in the yards
near the MR offices. In fact, one article stressed how they photographed
a wooden express reefer, measured it, and then proceeded to build it.
How many here have ever done that? (Hmmm, I don't see any hands up. I'm
not surprised.)

The "TPRX" I'm sure, represents the actual reporting marks on the
prototype car and I'm sure some good deed doer will take the time to look
it up and pass it on. At the time of the original article, few authors
used fictitious markings in their presentation of prototype data. They
may have used such on their own model.

The only area they were weak on was underbody detailing, but since that's
no different than the present day practice of some of the more
illustrious members on this very list, what's the big deal?

But to answer your question, the brake gear on depressed center flats was
usually numbered down under the high decks at either end. Sometimes
there were two complete sets, each working one truck because there was no
way to run rodding between the ends of the car. Therefore, the hand
brake would only acted on one truck, so there would usually be two hand
brakes. Some cars, a very few in fact, had rodding along the side of the
car tying A end brake "stuff" to B end.

One three dimensional source of information you might seek out are the
brass cars made by Railworks. They had an interesting variety of Pennsy
flats, including several depressed center cars (and some high capacity
types, with 4 - 4 wheel or 6 wheel trucks). They had full brake rigging
on all. There was a Soo Line d/c flat car made by Overland which was
very similar to the one in the book article which would give you a good
lesson on how the brakes were shoehorned into a very limited space. It
was actually based on an article in MR in the 80s, I think. That article
may have some brake rigging included, commonly included in freight car
articles of that era.

A fully detailed model would severely limit the radii that a model could
operate on. If you think you might want to detail such a car, contact me
off line and I can send you some Xerox copies of these models, and even
the 4 truck Athearn flat car I added two sets of ABs and levers to. It
worked well on straight track only. I think it might even take a 48"
radius curve if I replaced the Athearn wheels of its day with some
present day scale flange wheelsets. Another project!

These days the brake gear on prototype d/c flats is installed above the
deck making the cars a little more interesting in appearance than the
older cars. They can get away with it because they don't build them as
short as they used to. The bigger decks give more room for the necessary
blocking to stabilize the loads as well as access to the brake gear.

Maybe I ought to look up the book and that article and see if I still
agree with my off the cuff remarks.

BSR



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Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

When did truck mounted brakes come into use? Seems to me they
would eliminate the problem of mechanical linkage via rods. My
guess is that the cars had hand brakes at each end as a safety
factor.

For example, a brakeman might not be able to traverse the car
while it was in motion (if the load was very wide), it was good
to have a hand brake that could be set from either end.


Tony, do you really think that it takes two sets of AB brakes to control
a 95 ton capacity car?

Would you really want your brake rodding and levers no more than 12
inches above railhead?

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts


thompson@...
 

Byron asks:
Tony, do you really think that it takes two sets of AB brakes to control
a 95 ton capacity car?
Normal AB brakes of that era were for 50- or 70-ton cars (140,000 pounds
capacity). So yes, it might well have taken two sets. And remember, the
nominal capacity is not the maximum load.

Would you really want your brake rodding and levers no more than 12
inches above railhead?
Byron, look at the brake levers on any truck and tell me how close they
are to the railhead.

Would you want that car in your train when a piece of scrap at a grade
crossing ripped half of the system off at 65 mph going down grade?
Brake gear did indeed get ripped off cars. Still does. And the 65 mph
downgrade doesn't sound like prudent railroading to me.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony and Byron,

I have to agree with Tony on this point. If a depressed center car was carrying the sort of load they
were designed for, wouldn't the train likely be under some sort of slow order? Of course, if the car was
empty, such conditions were less unlikely to apply for a car of the size we are discussing (Schnabble
cars are probably another matter).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Byron thrusts with the verbal foil:

... Would you want that car in your train when a piece of scrap at a grade
crossing ripped half of the system off at 65 mph going down grade?
To which Tony ripostes with his razor-sharp epe of wit:

Brake gear did indeed get ripped off cars. Still does. And the 65 mph
downgrade doesn't sound like prudent railroading to me.


Denis F. Blake <dblake3@...>
 

I am looking at a drawing for a Seaboard Air Line depressed center flat, car
# 7000-7004. These cars were rated at 125 tons. They feature the following
brake equipment.

Schedule double AB-1012;type "B" relay on
the A end of the car.

Fittings Extra heavy duty unions & couplings

Brake power 22% of gross rail load @50 #
cylinder pressure

I have to agree that the double set of brake is to handle the large capacity
of these cars. However, this is for a 125 ton car and not a 95 ton car.

Also, these cars only show 7 3/8" of clearance from the bottom of the side
sill to the top of the rail.

I can send anyone who want's a copy of this diagram one, all they have to do
is ask..

Denis F. Blake
Columbus, Ohio
TTHOTS


billd@...
 

The railroads refer to these type of loads as "high-wide". And they are given a slower than normal speed limit...I believe that the maximum speed for a high-wide train is 45 mph.

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:12:07 -0500
"Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu> wrote:
Tony and Byron,

I have to agree with Tony on this point. If a depressed center car was carrying the sort of load they
were designed for, wouldn't the train likely be under some sort of slow order? Of course, if the car was
empty, such conditions were less unlikely to apply for a car of the size we are discussing (Schnabble
cars are probably another matter).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


ljack70117@...
 

When I was on the UPRR in 1949/51 it was 25 mph
Thank you
Larry Jackman

billd@gci-net.com wrote:


The railroads refer to these type of loads as "high-wide".
And they are given a slower than normal speed limit...I
believe that the maximum speed for a high-wide train is 45
mph.


byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:58:29 -0500 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@mediaone.net> writes:
When did truck mounted brakes come into use? Seems to me they
would eliminate the problem of mechanical linkage via rods. My
guess is that the cars had hand brakes at each end as a safety
factor.
No Tim, the cars had hand brakes at each end because they had a brake
system at each end. The shorter cars, i.e. the 95 ton capy car in
question, had two systems because it was built before truck mounted brake
cylinders came into use and its depressed center was very depressed.


For example, a brakeman might not be able to traverse the car
while it was in motion (if the load was very wide), it was good
to have a hand brake that could be set from either end.
You've been looking at too many of those 1890 woodcuts with dozens of
brakemen atop the cars to set the brakes in a moving train during a
fierce blizzard. About the only time brakes were set by hand in the last
century was when the car was removed from a train and they wanted it to
stay where it was. There was usually enough ground nearby to get around
the widest load you could imagine. Otherwise they never had occasion to
set the brakes per car on a moving train. That was one of the reasons
the AB brake with its emergency reservoir came into being.

BSR
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