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Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
Larry Boerio
Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed and when friction
bearings were outlawed. I can't find my reference notes on this.
Thanks
=====
Regards,
Larry Boerio
Buena Park, CA
"May Steam and First Generation Diesel live Forever!"
Member: Fullerton Railway Plaza Assoc., Orange Empire Railway Mus., CA State
Railroad Mus., National Railway Historical Soc., National Model Railroad Assoc., Santa Fe Railway Histoical and Modeling Society, Westerners-LA, L.A. Conservancy, Autry Mus. of Western Heritage
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bearings were outlawed. I can't find my reference notes on this.
Thanks
=====
Regards,
Larry Boerio
Buena Park, CA
"May Steam and First Generation Diesel live Forever!"
Member: Fullerton Railway Plaza Assoc., Orange Empire Railway Mus., CA State
Railroad Mus., National Railway Historical Soc., National Model Railroad Assoc., Santa Fe Railway Histoical and Modeling Society, Westerners-LA, L.A. Conservancy, Autry Mus. of Western Heritage
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ian clasper <ianclasper@...>
archbars - outlawed from interchange in mid 1941
"friction bearings" outlawed ?
These are still the norm for interchange, afterall most of us are still in
the 40's and 50's
New build cars required roller bearings from 1963- try the 70's or even 80's
for the outlaw date !
Ian Clasper
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"friction bearings" outlawed ?
These are still the norm for interchange, afterall most of us are still in
the 40's and 50's
New build cars required roller bearings from 1963- try the 70's or even 80's
for the outlaw date !
Ian Clasper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Boerio" <larrybemail@...>
To: "Steam Era Freight Cars -Yahoo Groups" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 1:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
Conservancy, Autry Mus. of Western Heritage
From: "Larry Boerio" <larrybemail@...>
To: "Steam Era Freight Cars -Yahoo Groups" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 1:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed and when frictionState
bearings were outlawed. I can't find my reference notes on this.
Thanks
=====
Regards,
Larry Boerio
Buena Park, CA
"May Steam and First Generation Diesel live Forever!"
Member: Fullerton Railway Plaza Assoc., Orange Empire Railway Mus., CA
Railroad Mus., National Railway Historical Soc., National Model RailroadAssoc., Santa Fe Railway Histoical and Modeling Society, Westerners-LA, L.A.
Conservancy, Autry Mus. of Western Heritage
Richard Hendrickson
From Larry Boerio:
interchange, beginning with 1937, but various RRs and private owners
pleaded depression-era economics as a reason to postpone the deadline and
it finally became effective in August of 1941. Of course, arch bars
continued in use on MW and other company service cars, in some cases as
late as the 1970s.
Solid journal bearings (not "friction bearings" - we've had a lengthy
discussion on this terminology in the recent past) were banned in
interchange in 1991, and trucks originally designed for solid bearings and
converted to roller bearings were banned in 1994, according to Ed Kaminski,
who may be regarded as an authority as he was working for ACF at that time.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed and when frictionSeveral dates were set as deadlines for the use of arch bar trucks in
bearings were outlawed. I can't find my reference notes on this.
interchange, beginning with 1937, but various RRs and private owners
pleaded depression-era economics as a reason to postpone the deadline and
it finally became effective in August of 1941. Of course, arch bars
continued in use on MW and other company service cars, in some cases as
late as the 1970s.
Solid journal bearings (not "friction bearings" - we've had a lengthy
discussion on this terminology in the recent past) were banned in
interchange in 1991, and trucks originally designed for solid bearings and
converted to roller bearings were banned in 1994, according to Ed Kaminski,
who may be regarded as an authority as he was working for ACF at that time.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Mont Switzer <ZOE@...>
RICHARD: READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARING
JOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN INTERCHANGE
SERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF THE
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS? MONT
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JOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN INTERCHANGE
SERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF THE
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS? MONT
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
Kaminski,From Larry Boerio:Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed and when frictionSeveral dates were set as deadlines for the use of arch bar trucks in
bearings were outlawed. I can't find my reference notes on this.
interchange, beginning with 1937, but various RRs and private owners
pleaded depression-era economics as a reason to postpone the deadline and
it finally became effective in August of 1941. Of course, arch bars
continued in use on MW and other company service cars, in some cases as
late as the 1970s.
Solid journal bearings (not "friction bearings" - we've had a lengthy
discussion on this terminology in the recent past) were banned in
interchange in 1991, and trucks originally designed for solid bearings and
converted to roller bearings were banned in 1994, according to Ed
who may be regarded as an authority as he was working for ACF at thattime.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Richard Hendrickson
Queries Mont Switzer:
.... READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARING
working for the AAR at the time.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
.... READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARING
JOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN INTERCHANGENo, I can't account for it. But maybe Chris Barkan can; IIRC, he was
SERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF THE
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS?
working for the AAR at the time.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
YES, BUT CHRIS CAN'T ANSWER IT HERE! THE OFFICIAL STMFC CUTOFF DATE IS
1960. I SUGGEST YOU CONSULT (1) FREIGHTCARS LIST [OR ARCHIVE] (2) MFCL,
THE MODERN FREIGHT CARS LIST OR (3) FREIGHTCARWORLD, ANOTHER MODERN CAR
LIST.
At 09:06 PM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts
1960. I SUGGEST YOU CONSULT (1) FREIGHTCARS LIST [OR ARCHIVE] (2) MFCL,
THE MODERN FREIGHT CARS LIST OR (3) FREIGHTCARWORLD, ANOTHER MODERN CAR
LIST.
At 09:06 PM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
Queries Mont Switzer:
.... READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARINGJOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN INTERCHANGENo, I can't account for it. But maybe Chris Barkan can; IIRC, he was
SERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF THE
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS?
working for the AAR at the time.
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts
Guy Wilber
In a message dated 4/20/02 1:29:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
larrybemail@... writes:
<< Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed? >>
The ARA's Mechanical Division first voted and approved (upon recommendation
of the Arbitration Committee) in June of 1930 to ban arch bars "on or after
January 1, 1936." Subsequent action and/or extensions occurred after that
date, to and including, the final (July 1, 1940) banning of the arch bar
truck.
The ARA/AAR data that I have compiled regarding the banning date of Arch Bar
trucks does not support any extension past July 1, 1940. A membership vote
on the proposal from the Arbitration committee designating July 1, 1940 as
the FINAL extension was overwhelming: In Favor; 1,838,942 Against; 2,540
Not Voting; 28,823. The ICC's Rep, W. J. Patterson, hailed the vote at the
Annual Mechanical Division meeting in June of 1940, and made no reference to
any planned intervention by the ICC to extend the ban date.
In actuality, the final ban date for use of cars equipped with arch bar
trucks (in interchange) was December 31, 1939 with the period through July 1,
1940 designated as "an ample recovery period" for all cars (equipped with
arch bar trucks) to be returned to owners. No doubt cars were still being
loaded through that time span.
The only change regarding arch bars trucks (I am aware of) that did occur in
1941 was within the Interchange Rules. This change was to clarify the
permissible use of cars equipped with arch bars on home rails and/or within
same terminal switching districts. The side-by-side comparison (within the
letter ballot) of the existing rule vs. the proposed change was presented to
member roads for voting on June 20, 1941. As of that date, Rule 3 contained
the wording; "Trucks, with arch bars prohibited under all cars..." Thus, if
there was any extension into 1941 it ended in advance of the July 1, 1941
date often presented as fact.
I welcome and encourage any documentation that refutes the above information.
Regards,
Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada
larrybemail@... writes:
<< Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed? >>
The ARA's Mechanical Division first voted and approved (upon recommendation
of the Arbitration Committee) in June of 1930 to ban arch bars "on or after
January 1, 1936." Subsequent action and/or extensions occurred after that
date, to and including, the final (July 1, 1940) banning of the arch bar
truck.
The ARA/AAR data that I have compiled regarding the banning date of Arch Bar
trucks does not support any extension past July 1, 1940. A membership vote
on the proposal from the Arbitration committee designating July 1, 1940 as
the FINAL extension was overwhelming: In Favor; 1,838,942 Against; 2,540
Not Voting; 28,823. The ICC's Rep, W. J. Patterson, hailed the vote at the
Annual Mechanical Division meeting in June of 1940, and made no reference to
any planned intervention by the ICC to extend the ban date.
In actuality, the final ban date for use of cars equipped with arch bar
trucks (in interchange) was December 31, 1939 with the period through July 1,
1940 designated as "an ample recovery period" for all cars (equipped with
arch bar trucks) to be returned to owners. No doubt cars were still being
loaded through that time span.
The only change regarding arch bars trucks (I am aware of) that did occur in
1941 was within the Interchange Rules. This change was to clarify the
permissible use of cars equipped with arch bars on home rails and/or within
same terminal switching districts. The side-by-side comparison (within the
letter ballot) of the existing rule vs. the proposed change was presented to
member roads for voting on June 20, 1941. As of that date, Rule 3 contained
the wording; "Trucks, with arch bars prohibited under all cars..." Thus, if
there was any extension into 1941 it ended in advance of the July 1, 1941
date often presented as fact.
I welcome and encourage any documentation that refutes the above information.
Regards,
Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada
Richard Hendrickson
Guy Wilber writes:
can't remember where I got that information. But your documentation seems
conclusive that 1/40 is the correct date.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
The ARA's Mechanical Division first voted and approved (upon recommendationI've been citing July, 1941 as the cutoff date for so many years I now
of the Arbitration Committee) in June of 1930 to ban arch bars "on or after
January 1, 1936." Subsequent action and/or extensions occurred after that
date, to and including, the final (July 1, 1940) banning of the arch bar
truck.
The ARA/AAR data that I have compiled regarding the banning date of Arch Bar
trucks does not support any extension past July 1, 1940....
can't remember where I got that information. But your documentation seems
conclusive that 1/40 is the correct date.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
MR. O'CONNOR: THANK YOU FOR THE RESPONSE. STRAYING BEYOND 1960 IS A
PROBLEM AND YOUR MESSAGE IS WELL TAKEN.
FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, MUSEUMS OPERATING/PRESERVING PRE-1960 EQUIPMENT WITH
SOLID BEARING TRUCKS FIND THE ONES WITH ROLLER BEARING INSERTS ATTRACTIVE.
WITH THE JOURNAL LIDS ON THEY HAVE THE SOLID BEARING LOOK, BUT OFFER THE
OPERATING ADVANTAGES OF THE NEWER TECHNOLOGY; HENCE MY INTEREST. MONT
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Show quoted text
PROBLEM AND YOUR MESSAGE IS WELL TAKEN.
FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, MUSEUMS OPERATING/PRESERVING PRE-1960 EQUIPMENT WITH
SOLID BEARING TRUCKS FIND THE ONES WITH ROLLER BEARING INSERTS ATTRACTIVE.
WITH THE JOURNAL LIDS ON THEY HAVE THE SOLID BEARING LOOK, BUT OFFER THE
OPERATING ADVANTAGES OF THE NEWER TECHNOLOGY; HENCE MY INTEREST. MONT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:36 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:36 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks
INTERCHANGE
YES, BUT CHRIS CAN'T ANSWER IT HERE! THE OFFICIAL STMFC CUTOFF DATE IS
1960. I SUGGEST YOU CONSULT (1) FREIGHTCARS LIST [OR ARCHIVE] (2) MFCL,
THE MODERN FREIGHT CARS LIST OR (3) FREIGHTCARWORLD, ANOTHER MODERN CAR
LIST.
At 09:06 PM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote:Queries Mont Switzer:
.... READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARINGJOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN
THESERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS?No, I can't account for it. But maybe Chris Barkan can; IIRC, he was
working for the AAR at the time.
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Larry Jackman <ljack70117@...>
When I was working on the RR I never saw a friction bearing box that had
a roller bearing insert in it with a box lid. That is not saying there
wasn't any but I never saw one. With the lid closed it would look like a
friction bearing box and waste the cartoads time checking one of then
until he could see it was roller bearing. When the UPRR rebuilt their SW
switchers in to SW10s they cut the box back and the roller bearing was
sticking out from the truck frame.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Montford Switzer wrote:
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a roller bearing insert in it with a box lid. That is not saying there
wasn't any but I never saw one. With the lid closed it would look like a
friction bearing box and waste the cartoads time checking one of then
until he could see it was roller bearing. When the UPRR rebuilt their SW
switchers in to SW10s they cut the box back and the roller bearing was
sticking out from the truck frame.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Montford Switzer wrote:
MR. O'CONNOR: THANK YOU FOR THE RESPONSE. STRAYING BEYOND 1960 IS A
PROBLEM AND YOUR MESSAGE IS WELL TAKEN.
FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, MUSEUMS OPERATING/PRESERVING PRE-1960 EQUIPMENT WITH
SOLID BEARING TRUCKS FIND THE ONES WITH ROLLER BEARING INSERTS ATTRACTIVE.
WITH THE JOURNAL LIDS ON THEY HAVE THE SOLID BEARING LOOK, BUT OFFER THE
OPERATING ADVANTAGES OF THE NEWER TECHNOLOGY; HENCE MY INTEREST. MONT
thompson@...
Guy Wilber said:
further extension (or delay, or something) until 1941, and I remember
regretting not having known that when the PFE book was written. I will have
to dig through my Xerox copies of various old RR literature to see if I
made a copy. But Guy may well be right and my recollection wrong.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
The ARA's Mechanical Division first voted and approved (upon recommendationThis is how I reported it in the PFE book.
of the Arbitration Committee) in June of 1930 to ban arch bars "on or after
January 1, 1936." Subsequent action and/or extensions occurred after that
date, to and including, the final (July 1, 1940) banning of the arch bar
truck.
The ARA/AAR data that I have compiled regarding the banning date of Arch BarHowever, it is my recollection that I found a Railway Age mention of one
trucks does not support any extension past July 1, 1940.
further extension (or delay, or something) until 1941, and I remember
regretting not having known that when the PFE book was written. I will have
to dig through my Xerox copies of various old RR literature to see if I
made a copy. But Guy may well be right and my recollection wrong.
The only change regarding arch bars trucks (I am aware of) that did occur inConceivably this was the date I had seen. Will have to check.
1941...the existing rule vs. the proposed change was presented to
member roads for voting on June 20, 1941.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
thompson@...
When I was working on the RR I never saw a friction bearing box that hadMan, I bet those railroad officials just HATED to waste even a second of
a roller bearing insert in it with a box lid. That is not saying there
wasn't any but I never saw one. With the lid closed it would look like a
friction bearing box and waste the cartoads time checking...
a cartoad's time.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history