Some time ago Ted Richardson provided a detailed email with
information about IC series 30500-31999 built 1948 at Paducah
shops.

He said in part these cars had 7 panel Superior "Camel" doors
with 4/4 "IDE-2" ends with different hand brakes and running
boards depending on the car number.

My problem: Branchline kit of IC #30612 has Youngstown doors.
Since Branchline rarely makes such an obvious error, was Ted
incorrect or did Branchline get hold of a photo of a modified
or repaired IC box car, or did they just screw up?

Also, does anyone know what style trucks were used on this
group of IC box cars? The ends provided in the BLT kit are
not IDE-2 -- which is a 4/4 style with a short top rib. I
think only Intermountain makes the IDE-2.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts

In a message dated 4/21/02 3:56:47 PM, timoconnor@... writes:

Some time ago Ted Richardson provided a detailed email with
information about IC series 30500-31999 built 1948 at Paducah
shops.

He said in part these cars had 7 panel Superior "Camel" doors
with 4/4 "IDE-2" ends with different hand brakes and running
boards depending on the car number.

My problem: Branchline kit of IC #30612 has Youngstown doors.
Since Branchline rarely makes such an obvious error, was Ted
incorrect or did Branchline get hold of a photo of a modified
or repaired IC box car, or did they just screw up?

Also, does anyone know what style trucks were used on this
group of IC box cars? The ends provided in the BLT kit are
not IDE-2 -- which is a 4/4 style with a short top rib. I
think only Intermountain makes the IDE-2.

Tim,
Photos show that the IC 30500-31999 series box cars built 1948 at their
Centralia shops came with R+3/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends (IDNE) and diagonal
panel roofs. The cars were being constructed about the time the 4/4 IDNE and
raised panel Murphy roofs were transitioning to R+3/4 IDNE and diagonal panel
roofs but the few photos I've come across thus far indicate that R+3/4 IDNE
and diagonal panel roofs were used. If anyone has a photo to the contrary,
please advise. Of the 1,500 cars built in this order, the first 750 came with
YSD-2 doors and second 750 came with 7-panel Superior doors. Thus, the IC
30612 model should have a Youngstown door. The freight car diagrams state
what types of trucks were used but I'll have to report on this detail later.

Photos of these cars haven't been particularly easy to find. A grainy
broadside builder's photo appears in the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyc on page
339. From this photo it is virtually impossible to determine what types of
ends and roof the car had. The IC #31920 shown in the new GM&O/IC Color Guide
(page 40) clearly shows a diagonal panel roof. The R+3/4 IDNE and Superior
door is visible on IC #31448 in an overhead photo published on page 22 of the
October 1951 Trains Magazine. I would appreciate hearing from anyone having
photos of cars from this series with a description of the types of roofs and
ends that are visible in the photo.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Ed Hawkins writes, responding to Tim O'Connor's queries:

Photos show that the IC 30500-31999 series box cars built 1948 at their
Centralia shops came with R+3/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends (IDNE) and diagonal
panel roofs. The cars were being constructed about the time the 4/4 IDNE and
raised panel Murphy roofs were transitioning to R+3/4 IDNE and diagonal panel
roofs but the few photos I've come across thus far indicate that R+3/4 IDNE
and diagonal panel roofs were used. If anyone has a photo to the contrary,
please advise. Of the 1,500 cars built in this order, the first 750 came with
YSD-2 doors and second 750 came with 7-panel Superior doors. Thus, the IC
30612 model should have a Youngstown door. The freight car diagrams state
what types of trucks were used but I'll have to report on this detail later.

Photos of these cars haven't been particularly easy to find. A grainy
broadside builder's photo appears in the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyc on page
339. From this photo it is virtually impossible to determine what types of
ends and roof the car had. The IC #31920 shown in the new GM&O/IC Color Guide
(page 40) clearly shows a diagonal panel roof. The R+3/4 IDNE and Superior
door is visible on IC #31448 in an overhead photo published on page 22 of the
October 1951 Trains Magazine. I would appreciate hearing from anyone having
photos of cars from this series with a description of the types of roofs and
ends that are visible in the photo.

I have a good, sharp Paul Dunn photo from the Bob Lorenz collection which
shows IC 30780, built 4-48, with diagonal panel roof, 4-4 ends with short
top rib, and ASF A-3 trucks. The doors are postswar Youngstown 4-5-5.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

In a message dated 4/22/02 12:17:00 AM, rhendrickson@... writes:

I have a good, sharp Paul Dunn photo from the Bob Lorenz collection which
shows IC 30780, built 4-48, with diagonal panel roof, 4-4 ends with short
top rib, and ASF A-3 trucks. The doors are postswar Youngstown 4-5-5.

Richard and Tim,
Based on Richard's reply and the Bob Lorenz photo of IC 30780, here's what I
think happened on this order of cars. Initial cars built in the order came
with 4/4 ends with short top rib and later cars received the R+3/4 IDNE when
Standard Railway Equipment Mfg. Co. changed the design. The IC freight car
diagrams do not help define when the change occurred and they do not make any
distinction about the configuration of the ends. Thus, it appears that some
of the BT models will be incorrect since they do not offer the version of the
4/4 IDNE with short top rib. The photo in the Oct. 1951 Trains showing IC
31448 is conclusive about the R+3/4 IDNE but the build date of the car cannot
be read. Since car builder's did not always build the cars in the numerical
sequence, knowing which cars had 4/4 IDNE and R+3/4 IDNE will probably remain
an unknown until more photos (or production records) can be located.
Ed Hawkins

Ed & Richard, thanks for the help. It sounds like my IC kit is
ok as long as I renumber it a little higher ... maybe between
31000-31249, to match all the features of the prototype. From
the evidence it sounds like IC used up the last of the IDE-2
ends and then started using R+3/4 ends.

I do have one photo of an IC box car with an illegible number,
with a straight side sill. Do either of you know which 40 foot
IC box car series came with straight sills? I only know of one
car number -- IC #22318 from series 22000-23534.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tim When I put out that information regards the IC boxcars I was looking for
confirmation about the series of cars in general since branchline was coming
out with post war cars. The information was given directly from an IC diagram
book (1955). The IC identified the doors as -Superior-"Camel" (??) with the
drawing showing the seven panel "Superior" door. These cars had the R/3/4
end,A-3 trucks, handbrakes and running boards were split amongst manufactors.
The Intermountain end is good for two different series (29000-29499 and
29500-30499) cars built just prior to this series. Though you need to use
seven rung ladders rather then the 8 rung version supplied with the kit. You
might want to contact Ed Hawkins for confirmation of this. Cheers Ted
Richardson