UP F-50-11 brake wheel and trucks (HO)


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

All (esp. Mike),

As I noted in the thread on tractors, I am assembling a P2K flat
car as a UP F-50-11. So far, so good -- it's almost a "shake the box"
kit, so it's well within my skill level.
However, the kit comes with a Superior (IIRC) brake wheel, whereas
the UP diagram book indicates that UP used a Universal. Where, pray tell,
may I find an HO scale Universal wheel to substitute?

Furthermore, Richard Hendrickson's review of the kit indiates that
it comes with AAR self-aligning spring-plankless trucks. The UP diagram
indicates that spring planks are present, and gives the sideframe mfr as
"Bettendorf". Upon comparison with the photos in RPCyc Vol 4, the
prototype clearly did NOT use a Bettendorf T-section. So, what HO scale
"Bettendorf" truck should I use?

Thanks much for your assistance.

Regards,

-Jeff

P.S. References:
Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-51 by Terry Metcalfe
"AAR 50-ton 53'6" flats cars from Proto2000 kits, part 1" by Richard
Hendrickson, RMJ June, 1999
"Arch Bars to Roller Bearings: Freight Car Trucks 1900 - 1960" by Richard
Hendrickson, Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 4.
and a paper on brake wheels from the NMRA 2000 National Clinic Book. (I
forget the title & author).

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


D. Scott Chatfield
 

Jeff asked:

....The UP diagram
indicates that spring planks are present, and gives the sideframe mfr as
"Bettendorf". Upon comparison with the photos in RPCyc Vol 4, the
prototype clearly did NOT use a Bettendorf T-section. So, what HO scale
"Bettendorf" truck should I use?

Smells like Accurail's "Bettendorf" AAR integral-journal truck to me. Sez
"Bettendorf" right on the sideframe....

Scott Chatfield


Richard Hendrickson
 

Jeff Aley asked:

....The UP diagram
indicates that spring planks are present, and gives the sideframe mfr as
"Bettendorf". Upon comparison with the photos in RPCyc Vol 4, the
prototype clearly did NOT use a Bettendorf T-section. So, what HO scale
"Bettendorf" truck should I use?
To which Scott Chatfield replied:

Smells like Accurail's "Bettendorf" AAR integral-journal truck to me. Sez
"Bettendorf" right on the sideframe....

Scott Chatfield
The prototype trucks did indeed have spring planks, though they're not very
obvious in the photos, and also Barber lateral motion devices between the
bolsters and springs. Since there are no HO scale trucks with Barber
lateral motion devices, Scott's probably right that Accurail trucks are as
close as you're going to get. Walthers' "Bettendorf" truck, though it
doesn't have a spring plank, is also very close to the prototype F-50-11
trucks in general configuration. And, for that matter, the Life-Like AAR
trucks that came in the kit aren't all that far off in appearance.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

Scott and Richard,

Thanks very much for your advice. Any thoughts on the Universal
brake wheel? (I'm hoping that Mike Brock came up with a solution when he
built his car...)

Regards,

-Jeff



On Jul 3, 3:20pm, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP F-50-11 brake wheel and trucks (HO)
Jeff Aley asked:

....The UP diagram
indicates that spring planks are present, and gives the sideframe mfr
as
"Bettendorf". Upon comparison with the photos in RPCyc Vol 4, the
prototype clearly did NOT use a Bettendorf T-section. So, what HO
scale
"Bettendorf" truck should I use?
To which Scott Chatfield replied:

Smells like Accurail's "Bettendorf" AAR integral-journal truck to me.
Sez
"Bettendorf" right on the sideframe....

Scott Chatfield
The prototype trucks did indeed have spring planks, though they're not
very
obvious in the photos, and also Barber lateral motion devices between
the
bolsters and springs. Since there are no HO scale trucks with Barber
lateral motion devices, Scott's probably right that Accurail trucks are
as
close as you're going to get. Walthers' "Bettendorf" truck, though it
doesn't have a spring plank, is also very close to the prototype F-50-11
trucks in general configuration. And, for that matter, the Life-Like
AAR
trucks that came in the kit aren't all that far off in appearance.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jeff Aley asks:

Any thoughts on the Universal
brake wheel? (I'm hoping that Mike Brock came up with a solution when he
built his car...)
I kept hoping that someone would step up to the plate but...

OK. As we all know, Universal made at least 3 forms of hand brakes during
our period. Uh...for those that don't know, check out the article by Ed
Hawkins in the Sep '96 RMJ...as I...uh...just did. He points out, BTW, that
Bowser provides a 1949 Universal brake wheel in their round roof box car
kits. The UP F-50-11, built in '41, likely used an earlier form of Universal
which still looks more like the Bowser 1949 form than other brake wheels.
Me? Well, I was concentrating on the type of grab irons used and over looked
the brake wheel. Now, do I slam poor P2K for making such an obvious mistake
as putting the wrong brake wheel in the kit? No, no, no...not that again.
So, I guess I'll just get a Bowser roundroof box car and steal the brake
wheel from it. Hmmm. I could probably put one of the P2K brake wheels in the
Bowser box and sell it. Wonder if Pennsy modelers would notice...<g>

BTW, Jeff, what are you going to do about the brake wheel on the UP F-50-5?
You are going to kit bash something to have a 5 aren't you? Anyhow, let me
warn you to do some research on brake wheels before you get too far into it.
You'll need a Dromgold-Glenn brake wheel...whatever that is. Me? I've
decided to concentrate all my frt car modeling to just UP CH-70-2's. Why?
Well, they used Ajax, Klasing, Superior, Equipco AND Universal [ there goes
another Bowser car ]. I figure I can throw anything I can find on it and
still avoid the Prototype Police.

Mike Brock


thompson@...
 

Mike Brock writes:
OK. As we all know, Universal made at least 3 forms of hand brakes during
our period. Uh...for those that don't know, check out the article by Ed
Hawkins in the Sep '96 RMJ...
MIke: You have, I assume, looked at Gene Green's article in the NMRA 2000
National clinic book? Got a lotta brake gear in there.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson, referring to hand brakes, notes:

You have, I assume, looked at Gene Green's article in the NMRA 2000
National clinic book? Got a lotta brake gear in there.
Don't ever assume anything when I'm involved<g>. Not only do I have the
book, I attended Gene's clinic. I have now looked at the book. Gene has to
be considered one of the few leading gurus on hand brakes. As I recall, he
even collected the real things. Hard to argue with a guy who has one of the
damned things in his back yard. Looking at the horizontal brake [ to show
how unequipped I am for this subject, I would have called those on flat or
tank cars "vertical" because of the vertical shafts but the industry
apparently refers to them as "horizontal" ] wheels, the Universal model
probably found on the UP F-50-11 does not match well with the vertical
wheel. I guess I won't have to steal one from the Bowser car after all.
Sooo, in answer to Jeff, I suggest...in the event the prototype police is
seen approaching the UP car, quickly ask..."Who knocked off the brake
wheel?!" [ assuming you don't put one on ] or, if you choose to put one on,
say "What do you think of the tractors?" where upon you go into a 20 minute
monologue on tractors....at least 80% of which can be pure fiction since us
RR nuts don't know anything about tractors. We don't....do we?

BTW, having the Gene Green article close by but not recalling it, reminds me
of the time last December when I was madly trying to put lanterns on
cabooses before the Prototype Police decended on me during Prototype Rails.
I had discovered a cache of MDC caboose lanterns and was desperately trying
to find out if they were of the correct size. I spent hours going through my
library looking for a plan...passing frequently by the TV cabinet which
hosted among other RR artifacts a beautiful, full blown C&O caboose lantern.
BTW, amazingly, the MDC lanterns are correctly sized.

Mike Brock...and you trust me to manage the group? Don't answer that.


Richard Hendrickson
 

Mike Brock writes:
OK. As we all know, Universal made at least 3 forms of hand brakes during
our period. Uh...for those that don't know, check out the article by Ed
Hawkins in the Sep '96 RMJ...
MIke: You have, I assume, looked at Gene Green's article in the NMRA 2000
National clinic book? Got a lotta brake gear in there.
Everyone involved in this discussion seems to be missing an important
point: vertical staff flat car hand brakes were very different from the
horizontal shaft geared hand brakes used on house cars. Gene Green's
article includes drawings of the Universal flat car brake wheel as well as
numerous variations of Universal's horizontal-shaft wheels and gearboxes,
and the flat car brake wheel isn't like any of the horiziontal-shaft
wheels. The same is true of other manufacturers.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Jul 4, 1:04pm, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP F-50-11 brake wheel and trucks (HO)
Mike Brock writes:
OK. As we all know, Universal made at least 3 forms of hand brakes
during
our period. Uh...for those that don't know, check out the article by
Ed
Hawkins in the Sep '96 RMJ...
MIke: You have, I assume, looked at Gene Green's article in the NMRA
2000
National clinic book? Got a lotta brake gear in there.
Everyone involved in this discussion seems to be missing an important
point: vertical staff flat car hand brakes were very different from the
horizontal shaft geared hand brakes used on house cars. Gene Green's
article includes drawings of the Universal flat car brake wheel as well
as
numerous variations of Universal's horizontal-shaft wheels and
gearboxes,
and the flat car brake wheel isn't like any of the horiziontal-shaft
wheels. The same is true of other manufacturers.
For those of you out there who are still paying attention, there *is* a
horizontal shaft brake wheel that is "similar" to the Universal
vertical-shaft wheel pictured in Gene Green's clinic handout.

It's Details West's BW 179 "EMD & GE BRAKE WHEEL". The hub is a tad
larger in diameter than on a true Univeral wheel, but it's almost
impreceptable. Overall, the wheel's diameter is 1'11". Gene doesn't give
dimensions in his handouts, but the brake wheel on my IM R-40-23 (which
happened to be handy) is also 1'11", so I suppose that this is
"reasonably" in scale for a freight car.

I recommend that we all attend Prototype Rails 2003 in Cocoa Beach, FL
next January, and that we all inspect Mike's UP flat cars to ensure that
he has the correct brake wheel applied. :-) No, Mike, no need to thank
me...

Regards,

-Jeff


--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Roger J Miener <Roger.Miener@...>
 

Jeff Aley says ...

I recommend that we all attend Prototype Rails 2003 in Cocoa Beach,
FL
next January, and that we all inspect Mike's UP flat cars to ensure
that
he has the correct brake wheel applied. :-) No, Mike, no need to
thank
me...
Meanwhile, Jeff, I'll be the deputy who checks to see that the flat
cars are appropriately equipped with "little buggers"; aka, air brake
system air release rods. This should be great fun.

Roger Miener
at Tacoma WA


Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 7/7/02 9:53:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jaley@... writes:

<< Gene doesn't give
dimensions in his handouts, but the brake wheel on my IM R-40-23 (which
happened to be handy) is also 1'11", so I suppose that this is
"reasonably" in scale for a freight car.>>

Jeff,

The most common diameter of the verticle hand wheel was 22" in diameter, so
you're real close with the given measurements. The test rack for geared hand
brakes was designed for a 22" wheel with notes for construction of parts for
other size wheels.

I don't believe the AAR ever actually mandated a common size of the wheel
itself, but many of the other dimensions, along with the pattern for the
mounting holes (gear box) were listed as "standards" so railroad repair shops
could supply replacements. The shafts, mounting holes, and so forth were all
designed so various designs were interchangeable.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada