Greetings list Members,

The weekend is here and I'm putting some of Sunshines' chalk markings on
some cars. I've noted that on the Shineshine flyers that there are often
more than a half dozen chalk marks on the side of a car. Is this for real?
I've dug through my limited collection of photos and can find at most 3
chalk mark on the side of a car.

Now I'm not saying that anybody is wrong here. I'm just looking to do
the job right the first time. Is there some average range of chalk marks I
should shoot for. Thanks in advance. Just like to say that the Shineshine
decals are very nice to work with.

Pete Reinhold
Paint Plus Trains
375 fourth Street
Prairie Du Sac, WI. 53578
608-643-4325
paintplustrains@...

Now I'm not saying that anybody is wrong here. I'm just looking to do
the job right the first time. Is there some average range of chalk marks I
should shoot for. Thanks in advance. Just like to say that the Shineshine
decals are very nice to work with.

Chalk washed off pretty quickly -- if it rained. If not, then
marks could persist for quite a while. Like you I've seen photos
of many cars with no marks; but I've seen photos of cars with
many marks. How many to apply to your models calls for application
of judgement -- there is no "right" answer.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

Pete Reinhold enquired about chalk marks:

The weekend is here and I'm putting some of Sunshines' chalk markings on
some cars. I've noted that on the Shineshine flyers that there are often
more than a half dozen chalk marks on the side of a car. Is this for real?
I've dug through my limited collection of photos and can find at most 3
chalk mark on the side of a car.

Now I'm not saying that anybody is wrong here. I'm just looking to do
the job right the first time. Is there some average range of chalk marks I
should shoot for

I agree entirely with Tim O'Connor's response on this subject: it all
depends. I have photos of cars, especially from the 1930s and '40s, where
as many as 20 or 30 separate chalk marks are visible, but on other cars
chalk markings were much less in evidence - though most cars had at least a
few.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:

Pete Reinhold enquired about chalk marks:

...it all depends. I have photos of cars, especially from the 1930s

and '40s, where as many as 20 or 30 separate chalk marks are visible,
but on other cars chalk markings were much less in evidence - though
most cars had at least a few.<

Another question: Did different railroads have a "policy" about where
to place the chalk marks or was it decided by each individual?

I recall watching them mark cars in the Milwaukee Road yard in
Madsion, Wisconsin for the local train to Prairie du Chien and they
placed the marks for the "drop-off city" to the left of the car
numbers.

A second question: What is/was the information content of typical
"chalk marks"? I have seen "drop-off" locations: city, industrial
siding, etc. What other information was "chalked" on freight cars?

Bob Witt

--- In STMFC@y..., "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@i...> wrote:

A second question: What is/was the information content of typical
"chalk marks"? I have seen "drop-off" locations: city, industrial
siding, etc. What other information was "chalked" on freight cars?

=========================
The carman's inspection marks. Could be the carman's initials and
date or location. Could be some sort of code or shorthand. Usually
placed over one of the trucks. Whenever a hotbox occurred one of the
first things asked was who's marks were on the car.

Dave H.

In my RR experience a carman never chalked anything. If there was
something wrong with a car he would BAD ORDER it. He had a BAD ORDER
CARD. he filled out two copies with the car number and exactly what was
wrong and would nail it to the card board on the door of the car on each
side. He would let the Yardmaster or switchforman know about it. In the
yards I worked in, chalk marks were not used.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

dehusman wrote:

Bob Witt asked:

A second question: What is/was the information content of typical
"chalk marks"? I have seen "drop-off" locations: city, industrial
siding, etc. What other information was "chalked" on freight cars?

As described in the PFE book, PFE crews chalked the icing day and time,
so that cars waiting more than 24 hours between icing and departure would
be re-iced; and in many yards they chalked outgoing train number and/or
outgoing yard track. Two different former employees gave this exact same
summary of the practice. There is also a great Don Sims photo in the book,
showing a clerk applying chalk to car side while holding a clipboard in the
other hand.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

--- In STMFC@y..., lawrence Jackman <ljack70117@a...> wrote:

In my RR experience a carman never chalked anything. If there was
something wrong with a car he would BAD ORDER it. He had a BAD ORDER
CARD. he filled out two copies with the car number and exactly what

was

wrong and would nail it to the card board on the door of the car on

each

side. He would let the Yardmaster or switchforman know about it. In

the

yards I worked in, chalk marks were not used.

As David H. stated, carman's inspection marks were among the most
common chalk marks on freight cars. After inbound trains arrived in
a yard, car inspectors and oilers worked the train and marked each
car. On the IC at Freeport, Ill., where I worked, the engine foreman
would mark the cuts for the pin puller on the bottom corner of the
cars. The IC used one or two letters and mileage numbers for each of
the routes on the railroad. At Freeport, "A" was used on the line
south to Clinton, IL, "W" for the east-west line between Chicago and
Omaha, and "R" for the branch to Madison, Wisc. Some examples were
R25 for Monroe, Wisc., W87 for Rockford, and A35 for Dixon. Cars
going beyond Waterloo, Iowa, the next division point to the west,
were
marked HW (high west). Cars going to Clinton and beyond were marked
S (south). Cars going to Chicago were marked OS (Chicago-south) and
OP (Chicago-propers) which included interchange cars and industry
cars.

Cars arriving at outlying points where industry switch jobs worked
were marked by the clerks at that location with consignee's name and
date car arrived. Usually soft chalk was used which washed off or
was wiped off after a short period of time. Sometimes a crayon type
marker was used which lasted for a longer time.

Chet French
A35