2nd run LL 50' flat cars


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Just received my order of the CGW flats and was horrified to find they
were the second run made in '44 other than the first run made in '40.
Terrible selection of numbers by LL. Went so few of these cars were early
why would that selection have been made?
And I know careful checking of the cars numbers would have prevented
this mistake but I waited so long and the article was in '99.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Richard Hendrickson
 

Jon Miller fumes:

Just received my order of the CGW flats and was horrified to find they
were the second run made in '44 other than the first run made in '40.
Terrible selection of numbers by LL. Went so few of these cars were early
why would that selection have been made?
And I know careful checking of the cars numbers would have prevented
this mistake but I waited so long and the article was in '99.
Simple explanation, Jon. CGW's lettering style apparently changed between
'40 and '44 and there was no photographic evidence for the original
stenciling on the '40 cars, but there was for the '44 batch.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

no photographic evidence<
That being true a little fudging of numbers and build dates could not be
disproved, right? While I'm at it I found some coil/leaf spring type trucks
in my truck box but don't know who made them. Seems the coil/leaf is
reversed (per your picture in RMJ) and without digging up all the data would
they be feasible? I'm thinking they might be Tichy.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Richard Hendrickson
 

no photographic evidence<
That being true a little fudging of numbers and build dates could not be
disproved, right?
Well, you won't get any grief from me.

While I'm at it I found some coil/leaf spring type trucks
in my truck box but don't know who made them. Seems the coil/leaf is
reversed (per your picture in RMJ) and without digging up all the data would
they be feasible? I'm thinking they might be Tichy.
Bowser (woof! woof!) has also made HO scale coil-elliptic trucks, though I
think they're based on a Pennsy prototype.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


smithbf36832 <smithbf@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:
Jon Miller fumes:

Just received my order of the CGW flats and was horrified to find they
were the second run made in '44 other than the first run made in '40.
Ricahrd replies:
Simple explanation, Jon. CGW's lettering style apparently changed between
'40 and '44 and there was no photographic evidence for the original
stenciling on the '40 cars, but there was for the '44 batch.
OK, so EXACTLY what are the dates on these cars (seeing as my 1943 ORER
won't help me here)?

Does anyone care to add the built/reweigh dates on the other 2nd issue
flats (C&O, Clinchfield, Illinois Termianl, Monon, SOO) since I have a
2+ hour drive to the nearest hobby shop that might stock them <G>!

Happy Rails
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith


Greg Martin
 

Richard, Bruce and all,

Interesting reading and Richard is a good source for this subject!

I just wanted to comment that today on the way home from the Oregon Coast I
was able to get a shot of a one of these flats still well painted in Union
Pacific with the Yellow slogan paint scheme... However; it is being used as a
bridge over a small creek about 15 miles in from Hwy. 101 on Hwy. 20 coming
out of Newport, OR. It is in amazingly good condition. I took a couple of
photos of it with my APS camera and I am hoping that I can have a disc made
of the roll of film if not I will scan it and post it.

Greg Martin


Richard Hendrickson
 

Bruce Smith writes:

OK, so EXACTLY what are the dates on these cars (seeing as my 1943 ORER
won't help me here)?

Does anyone care to add the built/reweigh dates on the other 2nd issue
flats (C&O, Clinchfield, Illinois Termianl, Monon, SOO) since I have a
2+ hour drive to the nearest hobby shop that might stock them <G>!
Ask and ye shall receive, Bruce. CGW built 7-44, Soo built 7-41, Monon
built 2-52, ITC built 12-45, reweighed 4-65 (late '50s-'60s lettering),
Clinchfield built 7-46, reweighed 8-54, C&O reweighed 5-59 (late '50s-'60s
lettering).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Bruce,
Gene Green's Morning Sun book on CGW freight and pass cars has the following
info: The only 53'6" cars are in the 3800-3899 series (100), built in 40, LT WT
46800, capy 100,000, Buckeye trucks, Equipco drop shaft brake. A photo caption
says: "Although originally built as general service flat cars (FM) by 50 twelve
cars were outfitted to haul trailers. By 1954 that number had increased to 53."
Another photo caption mentions: There were at least a dozen of these cars fitted
with bulkheads for the Ft Dodge IA wallboard pool. For those who attended Mike
Moore and my presentation at Naperville last fall would know that cars
3804,3814,3815,3829,3878,3883,3891 were assigned to Ft Dodge in 68. Oddballs
Decals has a set for these cars when repainted with just CGW and the number and
lots of dots for the stake pockets.
Clark

smithbf36832 wrote:

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:
Jon Miller fumes:

Just received my order of the CGW flats and was horrified to find they
were the second run made in '44 other than the first run made in '40.
Ricahrd replies:
Simple explanation, Jon. CGW's lettering style apparently changed between
'40 and '44 and there was no photographic evidence for the original
stenciling on the '40 cars, but there was for the '44 batch.
OK, so EXACTLY what are the dates on these cars (seeing as my 1943 ORER
won't help me here)?

Does anyone care to add the built/reweigh dates on the other 2nd issue
flats (C&O, Clinchfield, Illinois Termianl, Monon, SOO) since I have a
2+ hour drive to the nearest hobby shop that might stock them <G>!

Happy Rails
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith


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Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Richard said:
Ask and ye shall receive, Bruce. CGW built 7-44, Soo built 7-41, Monon
built 2-52, ITC built 12-45, reweighed 4-65 (late '50s-'60s lettering),
Clinchfield built 7-46, reweighed 8-54, C&O reweighed 5-59 (late '50s-'60s
lettering).
and Clark added:
Gene Green's Morning Sun book on CGW freight and pass cars has the following
info: The only 53'6" cars are in the 3800-3899 series (100), built in 40,
LT WT
46800, capy 100,000, Buckeye trucks, Equipco drop shaft brake.


Clark, Richard

Thanks for the notes! Since I'm modeling June 1944 that second CGW lot
would be one month too new <G>. No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes? I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).

Well, I can always run the Soo cars! (I need lots of flats and gons for
military loads)

Happy Rails
Bruce


Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Bruce,
As per my earlier note, from the decal box an 8 that matched. That old
sheet also had both new and built dates of '40. A little dullcoat and some
weathering and it's fixed. The sheet was part of an old Champ decal. As
Richard said no photo evidence so nobody can say it's wrong.
If evidence turns up then LL can run the car again<VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Richard Hendrickson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes?
We don't know that they did. The problem is that we don't know that they
didn't, and L-L is understandably reluctant to issue models with p/l based
on speculation.

I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).
Not impossible but highly unlikely; during WW II cars were in such demand
(esp. flat cars) that they didn't get to the paint shop unless it was
absolutely necessary.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes?
Richard replied:
We don't know that they did. The problem is that we don't know that they
didn't, and L-L is understandably reluctant to issue models with p/l based
on speculation.
And I can understand why! If its not available, I'll strip a car and
repaint it, but if its wrong, I'll likely as not, not buy it (at least not
right away, and not for full price...I might buy it on sale as stripping
fodder). My closest hobby shop (50 miles) has a shelf full of P2K flat
cars with the little "this scheme may not be prototypical" labels on
them...course, he's shutting down in a few weeks as he is moving "up nawth"
(to North Carolina) so I'm waiting for the Going out of Business sale to
snap them up <G>.

What might be some good roadnames for 53'6" AAR 50 ton flats transporting
goods (especially military cargo) on the PRR in 1944? (I have one each of
the NKP and CNW from the 1st release). The NKP and CNW flats are
transporting M3 halftracks and Shermans respectively from the Detroit
Arsenal to New Jersey for shipment to the European theater. Of course, as
Richard pointed out in part of his note that I snipped, flat cars were
snapped up...I've got a picture in a book of a Southern flat car being
loaded with Shermans in the Detroit Arsenal.

Of course, in I do have some other classes of flats, like PRR F30A and FM
cars, and a Norwest C.P. 336260-Series Flat Car (yeah, I know...the car
service rules say that's not supposed to happen...except that there is a
nice photo in the Signal Corps archives of CP308063 in Newport News
http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/VTLS/SC/02/085.jpg - I wonder how it got there?
<G>). I know of the Red Caboose (NYC prototype right?) and the Tichy
flat...any other good prototypical models out there? Is there going to be
one in the Marklin U.P. series that would be appropriate for '44?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<

This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
 

I said:
shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<
Jon replies:
This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR. I was
really surprised to see the stickers, but there they were, on the end of
the box!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

CP, CN and BCR<
Ah, now I see. These are probably cars imported by LL Canada. A couple
of years ago there was some controversy about the LL Canada cars didn't fit
the wording on the LL box about being correct, false advertising and all
that. So LL Canada fixed this with the sticker I guess.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bruce F. Smith wrote re: slow selling P2K flatcars:
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR.

And you wonder why they've been sitting on the shelf in an Alabama
hobbyshop...


Ben Hom


armprem
 

Ben,I might be interested in some of those P2K flat cars.Do you have an
address ? Armand

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 2nd run LL 50' flat cars


Bruce F. Smith wrote re: slow selling P2K flatcars:
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR.

And you wonder why they've been sitting on the shelf in an Alabama
hobbyshop...


Ben Hom




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Ian Cranstone
 

Previously written:

shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<

This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.
Likely cars imported by Life Like Canada (Canadian Hobbycraft) with Canadian
paint schemes. I seem to recall that LLC took some flak a while back since
the U.S. prototype models didn't match the Canadian-built prototypes they
were lettering for. This was their solution.

Frankly, the P2K models are not bad stand-ins for the Canadian cars -- and
since no one has offered better models so far in any form, I can certainly
live with them. Besides, the P2K kits are really quite nice. Now if LLC
would just get away from their habit of making some silly mistakes in their
lettering...

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Bruce,
I'm looking at the CGW book again. Unfortunately only one photo of a flat car has
the Railroad's name spelled out. The car is 3707 blt 7-36, 52' the photo was taken
in 10-67, the car had been repainted with the original lettering showing though.
The only difference is the second paint job's stencil starts one letter to the
right of the first. So, it's obvious the lettering is the same. Sleep well your car
appears to be fine.
Clark




"Bruce F. Smith" wrote:

Richard said:
Ask and ye shall receive, Bruce. CGW built 7-44, Soo built 7-41, Monon
built 2-52, ITC built 12-45, reweighed 4-65 (late '50s-'60s lettering),
Clinchfield built 7-46, reweighed 8-54, C&O reweighed 5-59 (late '50s-'60s
lettering).
and Clark added:
Gene Green's Morning Sun book on CGW freight and pass cars has the following
info: The only 53'6" cars are in the 3800-3899 series (100), built in 40,
LT WT
46800, capy 100,000, Buckeye trucks, Equipco drop shaft brake.
Clark, Richard

Thanks for the notes! Since I'm modeling June 1944 that second CGW lot
would be one month too new <G>. No lettering info for the 1940 CGW lot eh?
When did CGW change lettering schemes? I suppose it would be a bit out of
the question for a 1940 built car to sport a new scheme in 1944...(thinking
of renumbering and backdating the P2K car).

Well, I can always run the Soo cars! (I need lots of flats and gons for
military loads)

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
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Stafford Swain <sswain@...>
 

These models will be Life-Like Canada (not Life-Like U.S.) production.

This is done by Life-Like Canada to acknowledge that these are best-effort paint schemes, and are intended to be reasonable stand-in models of Canadian built and owned prototypes.

I said:
shelf full of P2K flat cars with the little "this scheme may not be
prototypical" labels on them<
Jon replies:
This is interesting I never have seen this. I thought LL P2K didn't do
such a thing! And if they did then why didn't they make the '40 CGW and
paste a sticker on it <VBG>.
Yeah, as I recall, the cars were decorated for CP, CN and BCR. I was
really surprised to see the stickers, but there they were, on the end of
the box!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
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Stafford Swain
26 Kenneth Street
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
R3T 0K8
(204) 477-9246
sswain@...