Hello Listers.

I need help.

Today, I received a flyer from Model Expo and in it was the Life Like Proto
2000 HO War Emergency Hoppers listed. Kits for $7.99 and R-T-R for $11.99.

Now that's a bargain! Retail Kits $16.00 and R-T-R $28.00.

So, what do I need help in?? Which of the prototypes available are the
models accurate for? Yeah, I know - the model manufacturers wouldn't paint
and letter any "non-prototypical" cars. Well, if you believe that, there's
a bridge in Waco TX for sale!

They offer, ATSF, B&O, C&O, IC, Southern & Wabash. In Kits, they have the
undecorated, so I could always be safe! LOL

Seriously, which of those protos would be best? And is it worth the extra
for the R-T-R? Or is that subjective?

Thanks in advance,

Morgan Bilbo
Ferroequinologist

Yeah, I know - the model manufacturers wouldn't paint and letter any

"non-prototypical" cars.<
P2K cars tend to be 99.9% accurate. The problem is defining the era.
One might be correct for 1950 and another might be correct for 1942, etc.
This is where this group comes in. You define the era (or cutoff date) and
then you can find out which kits fit that era.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief/Zephyr systems
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jon Miller wrote

P2K cars tend to be 99.9% accurate.

AHEM. Ain't nobody that accurate! Trucks and brake appliances are
very often inaccurate. Running boards on house cars are pretty much
hit or miss. Doors (including hopper doors) and door hardware often
fail to meet the 90% accuracy test, much less 99.9%. And P2K lettering
has been known to be less than 100% true to prototype...

On the other hand, P2K only decorated the War Emergency hoppers for
railroads that owned them, so they are 100% accurate in that sense.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "PennsyNut" <PennsyNut@H...> wrote:
Morgan:

Here is some data on these cars.

ATSF
Classes Ga-60 (180400-180599) blt. 1943 by Pullman-Standard and Ga-62
(180600-180799) blt 1944 by Gen'l American

B&O
Class N-37 (30000-30524, 30525-30874 and 30875-31024) all built by Bethlehem
Steel in 1943 and 1944, with Duryea underframes. Rebuilt in 1957 with steel siding

C&O
53000-53749 blt by Pullman-Standard, Mich City, IN in 1943
53750-54249 blt by Pullman-Standard, Butler, PA in 1943
54250-55379 built by Gen'l American in 1943
55380-55999 blt by ACF, Huntington, WV in 1944
rebuilt to steel at Raceland, KY Shops in '53-'54

IC
73000-73599 built by IC's Centralia Shops (first cars ever built there) in 1943
rebuilt to steel when ?

Southern
104500-105949 built by Pullman-Standard Bessemer, AL in 1943
rebuilt to steel when?

Wabash
39000-39399 built in 1944 by Wabash Co. shops (along with 75 for the Ann Arbor),
secondhand Andrews trucks

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Morgan,

Most hoppers remained on home roads. So much so that the freight car
registry doesn't even summarize hoppers for each road like they do with
other car types. Therefore, as a PRR fan, 70% of your hoppers should be
PRR (bless you Bowser) For those occasional furriners that wander in
and out perhaps the most important factor is your region. If you model
PRR east then you could see B&O, C&O and maybe Southern. C&O fleet was
the largest, if that helps. If you model PRR west, then IC, Wabash,
and maybe Southern. In no case do expect to see ATSF on the PRR, unless
its truly lost.

As a PRR easterner, I may pick up a C&O kit if I ever find one. I
don't need a RTR car. I have enough cars. I'm not a collector. But it
would be fun to build one and the one I can rationalize is C&O.

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@mitre.org

==================================================

PennsyNut wrote:

Morgan Bilbo asked regarding Proto 2000 War Emergency Hoppers:
Seriously, which of those protos would be best? And is it worth the
extra for the R-T-R? Or is that subjective?


All of the roadnames are valid - since you model Pennsy, the most
appropriate cars would be B&O, C&O, and Wabash (all in relatively
small quantities compared to the sea of Pennsy hoppers on your
layout.)

Some thoughts on RTR models -
Advantage:
- The model is already assembled.
Disadvantages:
- The model still needs to be weathered.
- Unpainted components (trucks, couplers, underbody) detract from the
appearance of the model.
- Modifications to the model (detail changes, weight adjustments,
etc.) may be more difficult because you might have to break apart
cemented joints.

The bottom line is there's still work to be done even for RTR.


Ben Hom

Most hoppers remained on home roads.

Hoppers remained on their home road more often than not, while the reverse
was true for boxcars. Having said that, hoppers went off-line all the time
and, depending on what part of the PRR one models, you would certainly need
at least a handful of foreign cars. If you model the Sandusky line, you'll
need solid trainloads of N&W cars, and a good number of C&O and VGN cars.

David Thompson

"Andrew S. Miller" wrote:

Most hoppers remained on home roads. So much so that the freight car
registry doesn't even summarize hoppers for each road like they do
with
other car types.

If Andy would amend his statement by saying that MOST bituminous coal
loadings were originated in home road hoppers, I could agree.

For instance, at any time, there were probably more N&W and C&O hoppers
off-road than at home even though there was a Car Service Bureau Order
requiring that empty C&O and N&W hoppers on foreign roads be returned
home empty. Far more coal which the C&O and N&W originated was
terminated on foreign roads than on home rails. Accordingly, in 1947,
the amount of cars which the N&W and C&O owned was far in excess of the
daily average of home & foreign freight cars on line - in 1947, the
percent of freight cars owned as a percent of freight cars on line were:
- N&W, 168.2%; C&O, 117.2% vs. the PRR's 91.8% - the B&O had a 109.2%.

Therefore, as a PRR fan, 70% of your hoppers should
be
PRR (bless you Bowser) For those occasional furriners that wander in
and out perhaps the most important factor is your region.

The important factor is determining (or estimating) on which road the
loaded hoppers carrying bituminous originated for the particular stretch
of track being modeled. Unlike boxcars with their national distribution
of ownership patterns, hoppers were far more regionally distributed.

There were, however, extreme examples of a N&W hopper going over UP's
Sherman Hill carrying Pocahontas Coal mined in West Virginia. Bituminous
Coal mined in Pennsylvania was not in demand in the West although there
were examples of RDG hoppers carrying anthracite going over Sherman Hill
before WW II. Western coal was not in demand in the east during the
Steam-Diesel transition era.

Compared to Bituminous Loadings, there appears to have been less home
road loadings of Anthracite in northeastern Pennsylvania. Anthracite
loadings were largely restricted to cars owned by roads originating -
RDG, LV, CNJ/CRP, DL&W, L&NE, D&H and PRR. It would be rare for a B&O
loaded with Anthracite even though a high proportion of the bituminous
carried by the RDG was originated on the B&O.

If you
model
PRR east then you could see B&O, C&O and maybe Southern. C&O fleet
was
the largest, if that helps. If you model PRR west, then IC, Wabash,
and maybe Southern. In no case do expect to see ATSF on the PRR,
unless
its truly lost.

The roads cited by Andy above are restricted to those models released by
P2K.

Tim Gilbert

If you want a Santa Fe Hopper be aware that their steel sided versions are
not correct for the Santa Fe. Tom Chenoweth