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Grainloading Facilities in the 1950's
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JGG KahnSr
Dear Rick
I found your first-hand account very helpful, particularly your suggestion that by the 1950's, at least, grain shipped from producing areas to large storage facilities was all bulk and not bagged. This makes sense in terms of the very general knowledge I have of agricultural economics of the period, that the price-support system encouraged farmers to produce in quanities that varied from year to year, depending on weather and other limitations on one end and demand fluctuations at the other. The Butler steel cylindrical storage bins I recall going up in the 1950's, both on farms and as adjuncts for smaller elevators, were likely attempts to provide for overflows one year, to hold the grain until the market could absorb it. As others have pointed out, large concrete elevators are not all that recent; the example that comes to mind is the complex at Ogdensburgh NY (still there ten or twelve years ago) on the Rutland, where grain was brought from the midwest by lake freighter to be used in New York State and northern New England. As I recall, that went back to before WWI. I guess my interest tends to be in the other direction: I model the northeastern dairy-country short-lines, where most of the grain was grown for local or regional consumption (often just to feed one's own herd). Generally, as I recall, the grain would come from the midwest (or perhaps Canada) to the feedmills in bulk (boxcars mostly up through the 1950's) and be mixed and bagged at the mill for sale to farmers. Jace Kahn Mostly Fairbanks _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail |
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Don Valentine
Quoting JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...>:
The original, at least to my knowledge, elevator of the Rutland at Ogdensburg was brick. That structure was replaced by a concrete one early in the last century and the Panama Canal Act did not help its business. It did survive, however, and in the early 1960's was leased by the US Govt. for surplus grain storage. Still not having enough capacity for surplus grain a large Butler type industrail building, as opposed to cylidrical bin, was constructed on the east, or down river, side of it. Sad to note but all were gone by the mid-1990's. Take care, Don Valentine |
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ljack70117@...
One thing you guys forget, All of these Large Grain elevators with 100/more bins were not built to receive and ship grain. Altho they did some of that. The US government was buying grain as part of the price support program. They needed some where to store that grain. So the government paid people to build the large grain elevators. You could build a large elevator at no cost to you, then own it and the government would then pay you to store their grain. WOW we have a GREAT government, do we not. If it had not for the government give away program, most of these large elevators would not have been built.
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Thank you Larry Jackman On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 01:42 PM, JGG KahnSr wrote:
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Don Valentine
Quoting ljack70117@...:
One thing you guys forget, All of these Large Grain elevators withI share your sentiments, Larry, but have seen a number of large elevators that had absolutely nothing to do with the government price supports and surplus storage. Kellogg's at Battle Creek, MI comes to mind first, Pillsbury in several locations and even some breweries use such elevators. Take care, Don Valentine |
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ljack70117@...
I am not talking about these. They are very few of them. They are probably out numbered by 10 to one. There was three flour mills in Salina KS that was shut down and not grinding flour any more. But they built more bins and more than doubled the size under this program. To me We were not talking about these companies that stored grains for their own use.
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Thank you Larry Jackman On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 04:43 PM, newrail@... wrote:
Quoting ljack70117@...:One thing you guys forget, All of these Large Grain elevators withI share your sentiments, Larry, but have seen a number of large elevators |
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Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...>
Quoting ljack70117@...:Add to that PRR's huge complex in Philly, and the rail associated complexesOne thing you guys forget, All of these Large Grain elevators withI share your sentiments, Larry, but have seen a number of large elevators around NYC. BTW, the Tidewater Grain Elevator in S. Philly was built (1920's, concrete, a bazillion silos, IIRC) with the idea that all of PRR's grain traffic would go to philly instead of NYC. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 |
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Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
Shawn is interested in grain elevators south-central plains states?
States the Cotton Belt would have served? Therefore I will not talk about Iowa elevators. I will mention that my wife is a from girl and remembers her family "Going to town". While there her dad would sometimes pickup a sack of oyster shells at the local elevator. These shells would be fed to the chickens to help them make egg shells (recycling). I'd think there would be chicken farms in Cotton belt country? I checked my M&StL Landmesser setout list and low and behold on 11/9/59 MKT 97305 was setout with a load of oyster shells! Shows the diversity of the local elevator. Clark Propst This ain't Kansas Toto. |
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Shawn Beckert
Well, Clark, I don't know - to me a grain elevator is a grain
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elevator whether it's in Iowa or Arkansas. So yes DO talk about the Iowa elevators, at least concerning how they loaded boxcars. You're right that I want to know about elevators on the SSW, which primarily shipped rice and soybeans along with smaller quantities of other stuff. One reason I've been actively collecting Branchline and Kadee 40' boxcars is because I'm going to have to model at least one elevator with a string of cars waiting to be loaded. Shawn Beckert -----Original Message-----
From: Clark Propst [mailto:cepropst@...] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 3:07 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: RE: Grainloading Facilities in the 1950's Shawn is interested in grain elevators south-central plains states? States the Cotton Belt would have served? Therefore I will not talk about Iowa elevators. I will mention that my wife is a from girl and remembers her family "Going to town". While there her dad would sometimes pickup a sack of oyster shells at the local elevator. These shells would be fed to the chickens to help them make egg shells (recycling). I'd think there would be chicken farms in Cotton belt country? I checked my M&StL Landmesser setout list and low and behold on 11/9/59 MKT 97305 was setout with a load of oyster shells! Shows the diversity of the local elevator. Clark Propst This ain't Kansas Toto. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ |
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Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
Shawn,
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First let me say I think discussions like this are great for getting a feel for what was really going on on the railroads and an understanding for what was in all those great steam era freight cars. As you have noticed comparing farming practices from different parts of the country is like comparing apples and oranges. Iowa is divided up into square mile 'sections' by 'mile roads'. Each section is 640 acres, there were 8 80 acre farms per section. There's a town approximently every ten miles. That way in horsepower days a farmer could make it to town and back in one day. Each town had a grain elevator and rail access. That's a lot of elevators and railroads. The elevators were small, not much left over from the small farms that fed their own hogs, cattle and chickens. In the 50's my Grandfather owned 160 acres and sometimes rented more. I think that would be normal for the times. To keep money flowing year round the elevators needed other sources of income at the end of this post I will give some carloads for a Minnesota elevator. On the RPI site I posted a Bill Eno jpeg of a tractor with a coupler mounted to the front for moving box cars at an elevator in Sheffield Iowa. Another way to move cars was with a car puller. This machine was probably more popular with larger industries. It was a motor and gearbox with a thimble on top of the gearbox. You would hook a rope to the fright car and rap it around the thimble a few times then keep tension on the rope the rope would rap around the thimble and move the car towards it. to stop the movement loose the tension on the rope and chock the car with a piece of wood. You always need scrapes of wood by the elevators. 2/5/48 ATSF 129065 BARLEY XM 124000-129499 OUT FARMERS COOP 10/10/47 PRR 31940 BEANS XM X25 31001-36958 OUT FARMERS COOP 10/29/47 73 CGW 89872 BRIQUETTES XM 89000-89998 IN FARMERS COOP 10/24/47 GN 14809 BUCKWHEAT XM 13000-17276 OUT FARMERS COOP 9/29/47 73 LN 5831 COAL XM 5000-7199 IN FARMERS COOP 7/7/47 99 PRR 567757 COKE XM X29 566091-574090 IN FARMERS COOP 6/30/47 MILW 717062 CORN XM 716500-717199 OUT FARMERS COOP 8/26/47 SLSF 148376 FLAX XM 147000-149499 OUT FARMERS COOP 10/22/47 73 GN 14809 HARD COAL XM 13000-17276 IN FARMERS COOP 4/2/48 99 CG 6941 PHOSPHATE XM 6300-6999 IN FARMERS COOP 8/2/47 NP 40151 RYE XM 39504-40995 OUT FARMERS COOP 73 SOO 14138 SOFT COAL XM 12808-14288 IN FARMERS COOP 1/10/48 CN 483253 WHEAT XM 480715-487764 OUT FARMERS COOP Clark Propst Mason City Iowa "Beckert, Shawn" wrote: Well, Clark, I don't know - to me a grain elevator is a grain |
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Shawn Beckert
Clark Propst wrote:
As you have noticed comparing farming practices fromClark, You're absolutely right, and I've had quite an education on the subject these past few days. Unfortunately the few listmembers that have knowledge and experience in this area don't live in Arkansas or Texas, the very region I'm trying to model. While various of Cotton Belt's ICC reports have been helpful in determining *what* crops were being shipped out of the Southwest in the 1950's (rice, soybeans, cotton), getting the nitty gritty details on where the elevators were and what they looked like has been an exercise in frustration. I've gotten the distinct impression that folks in Arkansas did not do a whole lot of photography in the 1950's, because photos of industry and businesses in that region have been extremely hard to find. I initiated a letter-writing campaign to about 20 or so of the historical societies in Arkansas early last year, and to date I've received answers from maybe half a dozen. None included photographs. I even wrote to Riceland Foods, a major agribusiness based in Stuttgart, Arkansas, asking for information on the history of their company and its operations. No reply. Thanks for the list of cars spotted at Farmers Coop in 1947-48. This gives me a feel for what kind of loads were moving in and out of the facility. Wonder what the phosphate was for? Shawn Beckert |
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Larry Lee <jlawrencelee@...>
Wonder what the phosphate was for?Part of the fertilizer mix for acidic soil. Larry Lee Auburn, AL |
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Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
"Beckert, Shawn" wrote: Wonder what the phosphate was for?
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Fertilizer Shawn. I should again mention this was a Minnesota elevator and shipped crops not grown in Iowa and received coal from Duluth in box cars. Iowa elevators received coal in gondolas. Clark Clark Propst wrote:As you have noticed comparing farming practices fromClark, |
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Don Valentine
Quoting "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...>:
For a number of years following W.W. II one of the governmental agricultural "assistance" programs provided phospate at extremely low prices to encourage farmers to put something back into their soil. I have photos of four to six carloads at a time being unloaded at the teamtracks in Morrisville, VT in the late 1940's and early 1950's. The results of that program were not always good because the phosphate was only one of three groups of nutrients needed. As an example, when I first bought my present home roughly twenty years ago I had to have fertilizer custom blended for two years to get the soil equation back into balance from the over use of cheap phosphate. I could go into more detail but this should suffice to answer your question without going too far off topic. BUt all of the phosphate that I ever saw used from that program came in boxcars in 85 lb. bags. A couple of car loads made a long days work! Take care, Don Valentine |
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ljack70117@...
Plant peanuts. They will do the same thing and do it better.
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Thank you Larry Jackman On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 08:24 AM, newrail@... wrote:
Quoting "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...>:For a number of years following W.W. II one of the governmental |
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Don Valentine
Quoting ljack70117@...:
Plant peanuts. They will do the same thing and do it better.You've got to be kidding, Larry. In So. Car. and Georgia probably but not at this latitude. When visiting friends in Moultrie I can get all the peanut fields I want....and a bellyache from eating too many raw right out of the field if not careful. Thus I buy them wholesale by the case of 6 lb. cans, usually from the Fitzgerald Peanut Co."s office in Sylvester. They ship them out by the truck and carload (required qualifying statement not that The Judge is back!) You must know those towns. They were all on the Pidcock's various shortlines. The Southern (pardon me, New Southern) has what is left of them but the younger Frank Pidcock still has a nice plantation called Ashburn Hill not far southwest of Moultrie where you can ride the "Sugar Pippin" on rails to the skeet range, enjoy his private car, which he was shocked to find me identify immediately upon sight as the former CPR superintendent's car from Revelstoke, BC (I believe it was sold after Mr. Paffard retired as super at Revelstoke in the late 1970's) or dine on grouse or sip bourbon in the former Moultrie station, now used as a club house on the Plantation. |
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