Service route for bauxite


Richard Murray
 

Does anybody know the service route for shipping bauxite to the ALCOA
plant in Massena, NY on the St. Lawrence Div of the NYC during the
late 1950's? I am assuming it was shipped in covered hoppers, but was
it shipped in just NYC covered hoppers or the covered hoppers of the
different railroads on the service route? Thank for any help Dick
Murray


C J Wyatt
 

Does anybody know the service route for shipping bauxite to the ALCOA
plant in Massena, NY on the St. Lawrence Div of the NYC during the
late 1950's? I am assuming it was shipped in covered hoppers, but was
it shipped in just NYC covered hoppers or the covered hoppers of the
different railroads on the service route? Thank for any help Dick
Murray
I don't know about the fifties, but when I was at N&W in the seventies and
eighties, it came into the port of Norfolk and was handled usually in unit
trains, IIRC, of sixty covered hoppers from Norfolk to Hagerstown by N&W.
I'm thinking the covered hoppers were private, but my recollection is vague
on that point.

Jack Wyatt


thompson@...
 

Dick Murray asked:
Does anybody know the service route for shipping bauxite to the ALCOA
plant in Massena, NY on the St. Lawrence Div of the NYC during the
late 1950's? I am assuming it was shipped in covered hoppers, but was
it shipped in just NYC covered hoppers or the covered hoppers of the
different railroads on the service route?
Dick, are you sure they were shipping bauxite to Massena? When I worked
at Alcoa in Vernon in the 1950s, I understood it was alumina shipped to the
reduction plants such as Massena.
It matters because bauxite could certainly be shipped in open hoppers,
but not alumina (much more finely divided).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


C J Wyatt
 

Dick, are you sure they were shipping bauxite to Massena? When I worked
at Alcoa in Vernon in the 1950s, I understood it was alumina shipped to
the
reduction plants such as Massena.
It matters because bauxite could certainly be shipped in open hoppers,
but not alumina (much more finely divided).
Tony, I think you are right about the alumina. I believe it was alumina,
not bauxite, that was being shipped to Massena via the N&W during my time
there.

Jack Wyatt


ljack70117@...
 

When I was on the UNPAC in Kansas in the early 50s Bauxite was shipped in Box cars from Arkansas to the west.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 12:47 AM, thompson@... wrote:

Dick Murray asked:
Does anybody know the service route for shipping bauxite to the ALCOA
plant in Massena, NY on the St. Lawrence Div of the NYC during the
late 1950's? I am assuming it was shipped in covered hoppers, but was
it shipped in just NYC covered hoppers or the covered hoppers of the
different railroads on the service route?
Dick, are you sure they were shipping bauxite to Massena? When I worked
at Alcoa in Vernon in the 1950s, I understood it was alumina shipped to the
reduction plants such as Massena.
It matters because bauxite could certainly be shipped in open hoppers,
but not alumina (much more finely divided).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Allen <allencain@...>
 

Dick and Tony,

I worked for Alcoa down in Tennessee in their smelter and often
traveled to the Massena, NY smelter. Tony is correct, the loads coming
in would have been Alumina and they were shipped in covered hoppers
(this HAS to be kept dry). Now, I worked there in the mid-1970's so my
info is from a later period but I think that the concepts were the same.

Alcoa's bauxite was typically minded off shore and coverted in to
Alumina at or near the mines. The alumina was shipped to ports in the
US. The Tennessee alumina did come into Richmond if I recall correctly
and was shipped by Rail to the smelter.

Since Massena is on or very near the St. Lawrence, I would check to see
if their's came in by ship to a port closer to the plant than
Richmond. It would have still been delivered to the plant by rail. I
do not recall Massena having port facilities of their own at the plant
but my memory on this point is vague.

As a side note, as a member of management, I was forced to work two
strikes at the Alcoa, TN plant. My job was to use a Trackmobile to
unload the alumina and to switch cars in the yard. At this time, the
alumina was delivered in air slide equipped covered hoppers.

If you are modeling this traffic, do not overlook the need for heated
black tank cars for petroleum pitch and black nasty covered hoppers for
petroleum coke. Both of these were used to manufacture anodes and
cathodes for the smelting process.

The smelters had pretty large private yards for this traffic. If I
recall correctly, it takes two pounds of alumina to make one pound of
aluminum.

Hope some of this is useful.

Allen Cain

Dick Murray asked:
Does anybody know the service route for shipping bauxite to the ALCOA
plant in Massena, NY on the St. Lawrence Div of the NYC during the
late 1950's? I am assuming it was shipped in covered hoppers, but was
it shipped in just NYC covered hoppers or the covered hoppers of the
different railroads on the service route?
Dick, are you sure they were shipping bauxite to Massena? When I
worked
at Alcoa in Vernon in the 1950s, I understood it was alumina shipped to
the
reduction plants such as Massena.
It matters because bauxite could certainly be shipped in open hoppers,
but not alumina (much more finely divided).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Allen Cain


hoghead32 <buckfiveoh@...>
 

Alumina is nearly as light as fly ash; a puff of wind and it's all
over the place. Several years ago, ALCOA purchased Eastalco Aluminum.
EA had plants in Canada and Fredrick, Maryland. Their alumina is
still delivered to Hawkins Point Pier south of Balto. (mostly from
Australia in recent years) and hauled by rail to the Fredrick
facilities. Alcoa closed their old pier (Paradise Point, I think)
shortly after their takeover of EA, and now we also ship alumina out
of Hawkins Point for Massena, NY. Before being bought out, EA leased
about 40 100T (that's two 15 car train sets, and 10 extras for
shopped replacements, etc.) covered hoppers for the traffic. Today
there is a mix of leased CSX cars and Alcoa hoppers in use. I would
think Alcoa would have done about the same thing in steam days. (By
the way, the Alcoa hoppers were built in the middle 60's, and are in
pretty rough shape. MikeBuckelew


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Larry Jackman notes:


"When I was on the UNPAC in Kansas in the early 50s Bauxite was shipped
in Box cars from Arkansas to the west."
The Fraley conductor book has a string of 26 box cars carrying "ore" westbound to "Van 6". The book Union Pacific Steam Eastern District has photos of a train carrying "bauxite ore" westbound on Sherman Hill in '56. The cars appear to be box cars.

Mike Brock


tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 


Larry Jackman notes:

"When I was on the UNPAC in Kansas in the early 50s Bauxite was
shipped
in Box cars from Arkansas to the west."
Mike Brock noted from his 1949 Fraley:

The Fraley conductor book has a string of 26 box cars carrying "ore"
westbound to "Van 6". The book Union Pacific Steam Eastern District
has photos of a train carrying "bauxite ore" westbound on Sherman Hill
in '56. The cars appear to be box cars.
As per the MONON ad in the September 1948 TRAINS, CIL #1 carried a load
of alumina from Bauxite Arkansas to Troutdale OR between April 26th to
May 5th, 1948. The car was routed B&N-MP-Kansas City-UP.

Tim Gilbert

Mike Brock



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