K auxiliary air tanks


CBarkan@...
 

Normally the K brake cylinder was integral with the tank, hence Armand's
question about whether it was a split design, which was an alternative. Rather
than rely on F&C's instructions (sic) do you have access to any prototype info?
You didn't mention what the kit is a model of. That might help some of us.

Chris

In a message dated 7/19/03 11:04:55 AM, danspach@... writes:

<< The kit includes a Tichy K system but no tank, and one is left wondering
what he is dealing with. >>


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I am attempting underbody detail on a F&C resin kit ("detail to level that you wish"), and in the only instructions, there is a stick drawing of what appears to be a K cylinder/reservoir on one side of the center sill connected by a single pipe to what seems to be a tank on the other side. The kit includes a Tichy K system but no tank, and one is left wondering what he is dealing with.

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit is a funky M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any clues?)

Denny


Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...>

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit is a
funky
M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any clues?)
Sure. MOW cars could have air powered tools in use, with that air tank
providing a source of compressed air to run them.

SGL


armprem
 

Denny ,Is it a split K brake? A

----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] K auxiliary air tanks


I am attempting underbody detail on a F&C resin kit ("detail to level that
you wish"), and in the only instructions, there is a stick drawing of what
appears to be a K cylinder/reservoir on one side of the center sill
connected by a single pipe to what seems to be a tank on the other side.
The kit includes a Tichy K system but no tank, and one is left wondering
what he is dealing with.

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit is a
funky
M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any clues?)

Denny




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Larry Buell
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler G Larrabee" <SGL2@i...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@m...>

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit
is a
funky
M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any
clues?)
Sure. MOW cars could have air powered tools in use, with that air
tank
providing a source of compressed air to run them.

SGL
Schuyler

I am going to have to disagree. AFAIK, When track or bridge/building
gangs finally got air powered equipment, they also got small portable
air compressors and carried them on push cars or bigger ones which
were track mounted, both of which we were still using on the railroad
when I went to work. A work train with a piece/pieces of rolling
stock with air connections would have been mobility limiting, in the
way, and not permitted by management as a waste of money when other
avenues such as gasoline powered equipment such as one-man ballast
tampers; air powered equipment; or manual labor were available. If
the motive power or car departments (read mechanical department)had
these types of devices set up for picking up wrecks, I cannot speak
to that. In any event, a wreck train (and the associated people) is
NOT maintenance-of-way: see mechanical dept. description above.
I have seen a couple of photos where the scope of the project was
limited (such as a ballasted bridge redecking with a side track very
close to the track being worked on) and hoses appeared to be coming
out of a tool car door. There was an air compressor inside powering
the equipment; nothing to do with the brake equipment.

L. A. Buell


Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 7/19/03 9:04:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
danspach@... writes:

<< Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? >>

The reservoir on every "K" brake system IS the auxiliary reservoir whether
connected directly to the cylinder (KC) or separated (KD). The "AB" brake
system introduced to rail cars a second reservoir which was the EMERGENCY
reservoir.

Only a very few early conversions to the "AB" system had two separate
reservoirs. This was a "cheap" conversion OK'd by the AAR (saving about 1/3 the cost
of a complete new "AB" system) that allowed the utilization of an existing
(K) ten inch (minimum) cylinder and "auxiliary" reservoir coupled with the
addition of a new "AB" control valve and EMERGENCY reservoir.

It is quite possible, as others have mentioned, that this reservoir was
utilized for air equipment in MOW use.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

At 04:59 PM 7/19/03 +0000, "armand premo" <armprem@...> wrote:

Denny ,Is it a split K brake? A

No. It is a standard K combined cylinder-reservoir, but with a diagram with a separate air tank on the other side of sill (the stick diagram furnished by F&C shows the tank to be good sized, about the same as the combined AB reservoir. There are no other details, either by diagram or in text.

As mentioned the car is a boom car (for a derrick). It is a NYC prototype that was cobbled together from pieces of an ancient caboose plunked down into an ancient c. wwI fish-belly gondola. It is a pretty interesting model, generally, but it sure lacks the completeness of instructions one is used to expect from Sunshine or Westerfield.

SGLs surmise that added air capacity for air tools might be a legitimate reason for more air tank capacity has the ring of plausibility.

Denny


Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "labuell51" <lbuell@...>

Schuyler

I am going to have to disagree.
That's OK. We don't have to agree.

SGL


CBarkan@...
 

In a message dated 7/19/03 9:48:24 PM, Guycwilber@... writes:

<< It is quite possible, as others have mentioned, that this reservoir was
utilized for air equipment in MOW use. >>

It makes sense to me in an early era when the only feasible source of power
to provide air supply was the locomotive, that some way to use this for
secondary purposes on the train might be considered, but there are complications.

The only way I can imagine this being done is if use of the "auxiliary"
reservoir for powering other equipment in no way compromised or put at risk the air
supply needed for its intended purpose, namely stopping the car (train). I
cannot imagine it being the same reservoir used for braking. The auxiliary
would have to be plumbed into the car's air system with some kind of additional
valving to ensure it was isolated from the brake system. Presumably there
would also have to be operating rules about when and how the air supply was used
or replenished.

It strikes me as much more likely that since these are specialized cars in
specialized trains, that a second air line would be used for all this, akin to
remote-controlled hopper doors on some ballats cars, and often on passenger
cars I guess.

With regard to the model that prompted the original question, if the latter
is the case, the piping connections would be completely isolated from the brake
air system. If all you are going on is one of those (in)famous F&C diagrams,
I would suggest you keep looking for more authoritative and complete
prototype info. We still haven't heard what this model is intended to represent.

Chris


Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: <CBarkan@...>
:

<< It is quite possible, as others have mentioned, that this reservoir was
utilized for air equipment in MOW use. >>

It makes sense to me in an early era when the only feasible source of
power
to provide air supply was the locomotive, that some way to use this for
secondary purposes on the train might be considered, but there are
complications.

The only way I can imagine this being done is if use of the "auxiliary"
reservoir for powering other equipment in no way compromised or put at
risk the air
supply needed for its intended purpose, namely stopping the car (train).
I
cannot imagine it being the same reservoir used for braking. The
auxiliary
would have to be plumbed into the car's air system with some kind of
additional
valving to ensure it was isolated from the brake system. Presumably there
would also have to be operating rules about when and how the air supply
was used
or replenished.
Well, Chris, you certainly do have a handle on how to set this up . . .

It strikes me as much more likely that since these are specialized cars in
specialized trains, that a second air line would be used for all this,
akin to
remote-controlled hopper doors on some ballats cars, and often on
passenger
cars I guess.
But, you can't be sure that the entire train sent out to any one specific
location to do this work will be the same every time, nor that the cars will
be in the proper order to permit that. Since this was a tender to a crane
(IIRC) then it would be likely to be spotted in a single location, mostly,
and used in a single spot. And indeed, use of air compressors is something
I would think might not have been common until maybe in the late 40's or
50's. And not on all roads even then.

SGL