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Photo in 2004 Model Railroader Calendar
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Thomas Olsen wrote:
I went totally into HO in 1957 with a Gilbert American Flyer NYC Hudson (Sorry, Ben, but I had to start somewhere and that was it!) You obviously have me confused with that group of SPFs who run around convinced that if they touch anything New York Central, they'll melt faster than the Wicked Witch of the West in a downpour. Have you forgotten who was advocating a NYC USRA-design steel boxcar in styrene a couple months back? [Mandatory STMFC content.] Remember, I plan on modeling Englewood in Chicago, and will need a goodly amount of NYC equipment. (Anyone have an HO scale Mohawk they want to sell at a reasonable price?) Ben Hom |
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eci305@...
Tom Olsen makes alot of good points. We were all beginners at some time.
Lou Ullian Coon Creek Lumber Co. |
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Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
Schuyler, Charlie, Tony and friends on the List,
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In deference to Mike wanting us to move on from this thread, I could not leave without putting in my two cents worth. I must agree with Charlie Vlk regarding Model Railroader's importance to the entire model railroad hobby. It is the magazine that ties us all together, regardless of whether you are a vestie or whether you are an RPM. It carries most of the advertising for products that we all use and is usually the first magazine that receives the ads from the manufacturers. It is the magazine that most beginners in the hobby start with. We cannot forget that before we were RPMs, we were all beginners and some of us were vesties too. Remember when all that you could afford was an Athearn box car for $3.00. As a young newcomer and later when I was raising a family, money was a scarce commodity, so it was the vestie toys that kept us going. MR is where the beginners find the toys that they need to get started. Many never get beyond what we call the toy train stage, but eventually a number of them do! My first encounter with the scale hobby was through Model Trains magazine in 1950 that an uncle (who was a PRR brakeman at the time) bought me. About a year later, I happened upon the November issue of Model Railroader that our next door neighbor who was a Pennsy conductor was throwing out. I can still remember one of the lead articles being "Plastic Lakes and Streams." I went totally into HO in 1957 with a Gilbert American Flyer NYC Hudson (Sorry, Ben, but I had to start somewhere and that was it!) freight set and got hooked on the Pennsy later that year when my neighbor, who was a year older, started out with an American Flyer PRR B6sb 0-6-0 switcher set. From there, Penn Line supplied PRR H9s 2-8-0s and other PRR kits and I had built several small layouts by the time I completed high school. In the time between high school, I spent a lot of time riding steam excursions and hanging around with the PRR/RDG/PRSL railroaders at the freight yards, engine terminals and towers in South Jersey. In 1966 I joined the Silver Valley Model Railroad Club in Camden New Jersey. The club was a hot bed of structure and equipment builders and out of a total of 35 members, five of us were PRR modelers and had most of the road power and rolling stock on the layout. Under the tutelage of a few of these modelers, I learned how to rebuild brass, assemble those tough urethane kits and use an air brush. Most of those people are still my friends today. By this time I had hired out on the PRR (1965) as a Block Operator and started taking pictures and collecting all the magazines that were available at that time. Main Line Modeler under Bob Hundman and Model Railroading (later RailModel Journal) under Dick Schleicher gave true prototype modeling a tremendous boost and I became a true believer. Still, today, there is a tremendous amount that I still do not know, but through this list and the people who are on it, I can find the information that I need to continue. Today, we as prototype modelers, have the greatest array of equipment to choose from and the largest amount of prototype information that has ever been assembled to work with. For me, retirement from the real railroad is only about 6 months away at most. After that, I will have the time to finally build some of those urethane kits that I have been squirreling away for the last ten years. Let us not knock the beginners and the general interest magazines that they and a lot of us read. It is they who will become the future RPMs and it is up to us to help them to do so! And yes, the Prototype Police will have to continue to be vigilant in keeping us from the mis-steps that sometimes befall us and take us astray! Remember, Life as a Railroad Prototype Modeler is good! Tom Olsen 7 Boundary Road, West Branch Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 PH: (302) 738-4292 E-Mail: tmolsen@... Schuyler G Larrabee wrote:
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Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: <asychis@...> Not MR. MT. Model Trains magazine, at least at the very very start, somewhere around 1953 or 54. I was about 5. But before we moved to "the new house" when I was 7-not-quite-8, I had found Model Railroader. How long from that time until you became a prototypeI remember thinking that somehow models weren't quite what they could be while in high school, but I wandered away from modeling at a critical time, about '67, when I went off to college, architecture school, women, beer, etc. Critical because I missed out on paying attention to the EL when it was HAPPENING! I came to, so to speak, while living in the Bay area, and became aquainted with some of the Colorado Narrow Gauge freaks there, so got exposed to Serious Modeling then, and to SL&NG Gazette. I've been trying to get better ever since. I did, started reading MR at about 12 when I got a subscription for agift and have read it almost continuously since then. I have to admit, though,copy of RMC, and 2. when I saw Mainline Modeler #1. That is a magazine that brokethe mold in my opinion.As someone else said (Tony T?) MM was obviously intended as a broad-minded man's Gazette. I sent in my money for the subscription based on a flyer I got somewhere, before the first issue was out. And wrote a letter of apology (!) to Gazette when that subscription ran out, explaining that I was off to standard-gauge land with MM. SGL |
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Charlie Vlk
Thinking about this thread I want to clarify that I don't feel that MR is
"Model Railroading for Idiots" or even for the dreaded Vesties.... my take on MR is that it is a general circulation magazine that should not be expected to print paragraphs of esoterica that (we on) this list are concerned with..... MR is a professional, albeit market-driven corporate, publication that is IMHO indispensable to the Hobby, and in spite of the occasional Sellios/Furlow they still do Good Things in every issue. Just because MR is not the best or proper forum for Steam Era Frieght Car Modeling and other magazines are does not diminish its value to us....we still need locomotives and track, without the MR audience we might not have as many goodies.... Charlie Vlk |
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Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
Jerry Michels wrote:
By the way, just for grins, how many on this list started in model railroading by reading MR? MR and RMC were the only magazines carried by bookstores and hobby shops while I was growing up in Southwest Florida, and I read both as a teenager. Even then, the early RPI articles and the Protofile series in RMC started to get me thinking about more realistic models. Then I got selected for a Navy ROTC scholarship, got turned down by MIT and accepted by RPI in 1985, and the rest is history. Ben Hom |
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Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
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-----Original Message----- This is a *very* interesting thought. I'm not sure it's correct tho but it may well be. I started buying MR at age 11 -- that summer included _The Art of Model Railroading_ by Frank Ellison. I dunno at this date whether Frank was or was not what we'd now recognize as a prototype modeler (considering the limitations of his day) but to this 11 year old he successfully conveyed that a particular way of model railroading was more similar to real railroads than all the alternatives other people were espousing. John Allen was also writing stuff then -- about fast clocks as I recall -- and there was his photography that so skillfully offered another alternative-to-the-norm. Not really realistic but vastly more realisitic than the other stuff in print. Now back to Tim's point: was I already a RPM or were these authors creating a POV that would only become visible decades later? I dunno. Dave Nelson |
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Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Jerry Michels wrote
By the way, just for grins, how many on this list started in model Not me. I had been model railroading for 3 years by the time I enrolled in the first grade. I don't think I read an MR or any other hobby magazine until I was 11 or 12... and then I went back through my Dad's entire collection going back to the 1930's. By the end of high school I was hooked on Trains magazine and was turned off by the lack of really accurate model trains. I turned my back on modeling and didn't rediscover it for 17 years when I saw my first Tichy kit... then I knew the world had caught up with my desires. It was a couple more years after that I discovered Prototype Modeler and Mainline Modeler. I don't think magazines can create the desire for something, they just feed our desires. If you're not an RPM in your heart, reading Mainline Modeler's not going to change you. Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<-- Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Mont Switzer <ZOE@...>
I submit one or two articles a year to MR, mostly on freight cars and I
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can't recall when I've had a rejection. Check in 60 days and I usually see it in print within 24 months. I'm sure I don't model to the caliber many on this list profess to, but the editors at MR call with questions that lead me to believe they want to get my stuff right in print. I've been pleased with their presentation of my work thus far. I'm not pushing MR, but I certainly would pick up the current issue just for Bill Darnaby's article on railroad interchanges. He shoves a lot of 1950's era freight cars through those "Y's" as the photos illustrate to well. Mont Switzer ----- Original Message -----
From: <asychis@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photo in 2004 Model Railroader Calendar In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:57:58 AM Central Standard Time,atsf@... writes:later.There is much evidence that MR will do the following; buy articles that reasonableAt least with the other mags you know they will be published in a "willtimeframe. I would never send MR anything within the contract reading publicationbe published within 12 months".I was looking more for outright rejection of certain content, not schedules. Regarding rewriting, I take it that that is their policy tomake. I've had articles in Mainline and RMC that were editorially changed,usually for the better. Editorial changes would be typical for 99.9% of all |
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Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Richard, Richard, Richard...
(I always wanted to say that.) Try to see things from the Trains Are Fun For Yahoos (TAFFY) crowd. We RPM's have ORER's, Builder Cyclopedias, Museums, Collections, an incredible compendium of books, diagrams, prototype materials, and scads of photographs. All they have is Model Railroader. Now, does that seem fair? Now, who is working on those official Prototype Police jackets? No, Jeff, we still need to write letters complaining about too much Malcolm Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<-- Sterling, Massachusetts |
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thompson@...
Jerry Michels said:
I was looking more for outright rejection of certain content, not publicationReasonable point, but their tendency over the year is to buy it and bury it. Then you can't publish it ANYWHERE. I once retrieved an article they'd accepted and held a couple of years, by saying I wanted to publish it, elsewhere if not with them, and they returned it (it was promptly published by RMC). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history |
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asychis@...
In a message dated 09/03/03 5:44:14 PM Central Standard Time,
thompson@... writes: I once retrieved an article they'dSo again, there is no evidence that MR restricts prototype articles. If they did that, it seems they would reject the articles outright. I can see them accepting and paying for articles and then sitting on them because they need a large backlog of articles if times get slim. Now that doesn't mean that it is a good practice, just an editorial policy that probably happens with a lot of hobby magazines. I bet most historical society, and probably MM and RMJ would love to have the stockpile at MR! By the way, just for grins, how many on this list started in model railroading by reading MR? How long from that time until you became a prototype modeler? I did, started reading MR at about 12 when I got a subscription for a gift and have read it almost continuously since then. I have to admit, though, the two best days as far as my modeling goes were 1. when I first saw a copy of RMC, and 2. when I saw Mainline Modeler #1. That is a magazine that broke the mold in my opinion. It really started me thinking of modifying the freightcars of the day into more prototypically accurate Missouri Pacific cars. Developed my skills a lot! Mainline sure has changed over the years, MR has Malcom and MM really pushes George. Note the cover this month, steam pulling a Santa Fe Shock Control boxcar. That wouldn't have ever, ever made the cover in the early 1980s! Use to be NOTABLE new products, now it's just new products. Times do change. Jerry Michels |
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Jerry,
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I once submitted a combined prototype/modeling article to MR about the Slidewell door opening devices. They accepted it, and paid promptly. That was over 10 years ago, and to my knowledge it has never been used. Sorry, Andy, but them's the facts. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff asychis@... wrote: In a message dated 9/3/2003 9:41:30 AM Central Standard Time, |
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Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
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-----Original Message----- No, Jeff, we still need to write letters complaining about too Richards suggestion is a nice vent but I suspect they've got some idea in mind of what they want in their magazines and IMO it ain't accurate freight cars, no matter how many letters get written. I started buying MR in 1964 and continued every month till spring of this year. I don't even bother checking it out anymore (tho with guilty pleasure I did look at the Furlow piece for a good laugh). I get more than enough freight car info from this list (and other internet sources), the many good books being published these days, and suplemental info from RMJ, MM, and RMC. Dave Nelson |
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Stephanie Miller <atsf@...>
Have list members submitted articles forpublication and had them rejected? I'm not doubting that this may be the case, but I'd like to see some evidence that this is the actual practice in MR.< There is much evidence that MR will do the following; buy articles that never see the light of day, or buy articles that are published years later. At least with the other mags you know they will be published in a reasonable timeframe. I would never send MR anything within the contract reading "will be published within 12 months". Another minor problem is they rewrite all articles so the original author might not even recognize it was their work<G>! Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax DCC owner, Chief/Zephyr systems NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
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Charlie Vlk
Writing to Model Railroader to include articles on freight cars of the
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caliber that this list is interested in instead of Malcom Furlow is like writing to Better Homes and Gardens to include more articles on dropping a new trans in your Corvette.... it ain't going to happen. MR is MR.... a general interest magazine run by corporate concensus with heavy overide by the marketing people. While I would like to see them have more content based on their 75 (???) years of archived prototype information instead of phlights of phantasy philler material, they don't have people on staff that have the knowledge or curiosity to reseach and write really solid articles anymore. There is hope as Trains magazine seems to be going in the right direction, but time will tell. In the meantime submit to the specialty mags that understand the material and will be happy to have it to publish it. Charlie Vlk ----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photo in 2004 Model Railroader Calendar Jeff Aley writes:ofI remember a long time ago, people started writing to MR about Malcolm"too much Mike Brock".No, Jeff, we still need to write letters complaining about too much Furlow. I thought he'd ridden off into the sunset, but I notice he's backWaukesha.
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asychis@...
In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:57:58 AM Central Standard Time, atsf@...
writes: There is much evidence that MR will do the following; buy articles thatI was looking more for outright rejection of certain content, not publication schedules. Regarding rewriting, I take it that that is their policy to make. I've had articles in Mainline and RMC that were editorially changed, usually for the better. Editorial changes would be typical for 99.9% of all magazines, journals, books, etc. That's just the nature of publishing. Jerry Michels |
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asychis@...
In a message dated 9/3/2003 9:41:30 AM Central Standard Time,
cvlk@... writes: Writing to Model Railroader to include articles on freight cars of theHmmm, is there proof of this? Have list members submitted articles for publication and had them rejected? I'm not doubting that this may be the case, but I'd like to see some evidence that this is the actual practice in MR. Jerry Michels |
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Richard Hendrickson
Jeff Aley writes:
I remember a long time ago, people started writing to MR aboutNo, Jeff, we still need to write letters complaining about too much Malcolm Furlow. I thought he'd ridden off into the sunset, but I notice he's back in the pages of MR, and ANY Macolm Furlow is TOO MUCH Malcolm Furlow. Let's request more from Mike Brock and other contributors to this list. I get the impression that Andy is the only prototype modeler left in Waukesha. Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520 |
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jaley <jaley@...>
On Aug 31, 12:13pm, Mike Brock wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photo in 2004 Model Railroader Calendar<Sigh> I'm not sure how Mike is able to sleep at night -- I understand he keeps a copy of each of his magazine articles under his pillow! Now poor Mike will have to add a calendar to the pile of magazines. I remember a long time ago, people started writing to MR about "too much Malcomb Furlow". Perhaps we should write letters complaining of "too much Mike Brock". Naah. If he weren't a nice guy, I'd do it, but since he is, I guess I'll have to settle for being envious. :-) Regards, -Jeff -- Jeff Aley jaley@... DPG Chipsets Product Engineering Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533 |
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