http://community.webshots.com/photo/69791072/126727054DVkyvh

The above link is to a photo of a tank car being unloaded in rural Minnesota.
Clark Propst

In a message dated 3/20/04 3:11:03 PM, pmeaton@... writes:

I also find it interesting that the house car whose end one can see parked
near the Pacific Coal and Grain shed appears to still have wood ends and a
vertical brake staff.   Wouldn't 1954, the photo's date year, be a bit late
for these features?

All things are possible. Around 1990, give or take two years, while
spending the night at the Visiting Officers' Quarters at Defense General Supply
Center in Richmond, Virginia, I started taking pictures of a PS-1 boxcar and what
was probably a USRA 40 foot flat car. The boxcar still had a roof walk and
full ladders -- both of them with U.S. Army reporting marks. A security type
objected to me taking pictures of them.


Gene Moser




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 08:08 AM 3/20/2004 -0600, you wrote:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/69791072/126727054DVkyvh

The above link is to a photo of a tank car being unloaded in rural Minnesota.
Clark Propst

Thanks for the link, Clark. I like the unloading (un ladening?, delading?)
method.

I also find it interesting that the house car whose end one can see parked
near the Pacific Coal and Grain shed appears to still have wood ends and a
vertical brake staff. Wouldn't 1954, the photo's date year, be a bit late
for these features?

Paul Eaton
The Old Sourdough
Ruksakinmakiak, Alaska

Paul Eaton writes:

I also find it interesting that the house car whose end one can see parked
near the Pacific Coal and Grain shed appears to still have wood ends and a
vertical brake staff. Wouldn't 1954, the photo's date year, be a bit late
for these features?

Among the mainstays of the M&StL freight car fleet were the 24000 series
single sheathed box cars built in 1930 with wood sheathed ends and vertical
brake staffs (as well as wood doors). Some of these cars lasted in revenue
service through the 1960s with no modifications apart from the application
of AB air brakes.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Dear Clark
What a great shot! It makes my modelling urges all hot and bothered. I am not sure of the function of the equipment receiving the tankcar contents, but I'd guess asphalt? Perhaps a road-paving contractor?
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

http://community.webshots.com/photo/69791072/126727054DVkyvh

The above link is to a photo of a tank car being unloaded in rural Minnesota.
Clark Propst






Yahoo! Groups Links

_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp

It looks very much like I remember the trucks used to mix blacktop
right at the point of use. Fine rock and sand was spread and sprayed
with oil, then a road grader would turn it over repeatedly until it
was thoroughly mixed. It was then spread and rolled. The partially
finished blacktop was often left overnight in an inverted V shape in
the middle of the road, leaving a lane to drive on on each side.
Those old bowling shaped, kerosene burning pots were left at each end
to warn people......now there's something that would be neat to
model.... It always seemed to take several days to do a stretch of
road. I'm not sure if it was just the way the county workers operated
or for other reasons.
In the upper midwest oil was also sometimes sprayed on sections of
gravel roads that passed in front of folk's farm houses to keep the
dust down.
Ken Olson
Western Wisconsin

In STMFC@..., "Justin Kahn" <harumd@h...> wrote:

Dear Clark
What a great shot! It makes my modelling urges all hot and

bothered. I am

not sure of the function of the equipment receiving the tankcar

contents,

but I'd guess asphalt? Perhaps a road-paving contractor?
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

http://community.webshots.com/photo/69791072/126727054DVkyvh

The above link is to a photo of a tank car being unloaded in rural
Minnesota.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "ken_olson54022" <kwolson@p...> wrote:

It looks very much like I remember the trucks used to mix

blacktop

right at the point of use. Fine rock and sand was spread and

sprayed

with oil, then a road grader would turn it over repeatedly until it
was thoroughly mixed. It was then spread and rolled. The partially
finished blacktop was often left overnight in an inverted V shape

in

the middle of the road, leaving a lane to drive on on each side.
Those old bowling shaped, kerosene burning pots were left at each

end

to warn people......now there's something that would be neat to
model.... It always seemed to take several days to do a stretch of
road. I'm not sure if it was just the way the county workers

operated

or for other reasons.
In the upper midwest oil was also sometimes sprayed on sections

of

gravel roads that passed in front of folk's farm houses to keep the
dust down.
Ken Olson
Western Wisconsin

That should be bowling BALL shaped kerosene burning pots....sorry.
Ken Olson

Quoting ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>:

Ken:

The truck is called a distributor. It has spray bars on the lower rear which
sprays the oil (now called emulsion)on the road surface. The product
(emulsion) has to be pretty hot (250 degrees plus) for this process to work
hence the propane tank on the rear of the truck. It provides fuel for
a "burner" which heats the load. The pump being used for the unloading
process seems to also have heating capability. I'm guessing that this "pump"
is supplying steam through the tank car dome to heat the load and sucking
product out the bottom, heating it further and then pumping it into the dome
opening of the distributor.

This is how most of the county highway departments here in rural America got
their emulsion in the steam era as they slowly went about converting all of
those gravel roads to "paved" roads. So it was very common in the steam era
to see these tank cars spotted just about anywhere that county road work was
being done. Summer months only.

Mont Switzer

At 01:10 PM 3/20/2004 -0800, Richard Hendrickson
wrote:
Among the mainstays of the M&StL freight car fleet were the 24000 series
single sheathed box cars built in 1930 with wood sheathed ends and vertical
brake staffs (as well as wood doors). Some of these cars lasted in revenue
service through the 1960s with no modifications apart from the application
of AB air brakes.


Richard,

Thank you for the clarification.

Paul
The Old Sourdough
Ruksakinmakiak, Alaska

This is a very common method used to maintain asphalt pavement. I have
specified this type of construction for many street improvement projects I have
designed in my career as a consulting engineer. The method is commonly referred
to as "Chip and Seal".

Ed Dabler

Type 105 tank cars would not have been used in asphalt or road oil service,
do you recall what industries were receiving them?

Chris Barkan

--- In STMFC@..., "" <ZOE@I...> wrote:

Quoting ken_olson54022 <kwolson@p...>:

Ken:

The truck is called a distributor. It has spray bars on the lower

rear which

sprays the oil (now called emulsion)on the road surface. The

product

(emulsion) has to be pretty hot (250 degrees plus) for this

process to work

hence the propane tank on the rear of the truck. It provides fuel

for

a "burner" which heats the load. The pump being used for the

unloading

process seems to also have heating capability. I'm guessing that

this "pump"

is supplying steam through the tank car dome to heat the load and

sucking

product out the bottom, heating it further and then pumping it

into the dome

opening of the distributor.

This is how most of the county highway departments here in rural

America got

their emulsion in the steam era as they slowly went about

converting all of

those gravel roads to "paved" roads. So it was very common in the

steam era

to see these tank cars spotted just about anywhere that county

road work was

being done. Summer months only.

A year or so ago I posted a list of cars terminating at Staunton, IL
on the ITC for a period of several years which included several
cars of road oil for use on the local streets and roads. I recall
seeing this operation many times in my youth in several locations.
The oil was sprayed on the streets and or roads and then a layer of
chip or pea stone or gravel was spread on top. It was a real mess
for a week or so until most of the stone became embedded in the
oil. As vehicles traveled on the newly sprayed streets, the small
stones or chips would be clattering against the sides and undersides
leaving small oil marks to be cleaned off. Shoes were left inside
for a week or so as it was easier to clean small feet with gasoline
or kerosene.

This is a good use for tank cars on a model railroad with few tank
car industries. As Mont said, cars were set out on house tracks,
team tracks, or back tracks where trucks could drive up next to them
to be loaded. After I started railroad, I recall setting out mostly
UTLX 105 type cars.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

--- In STMFC@..., "" <ZOE@I...> wrote:

Quoting ken_olson54022 <kwolson@p...>:

Ken:

The truck is called a distributor. It has spray bars on the lower

rear which

sprays the oil (now called emulsion)on the road surface. The

product

(emulsion) has to be pretty hot (250 degrees plus) for this

process to work

hence the propane tank on the rear of the truck. It provides fuel

for

a "burner" which heats the load. The pump being used for the

unloading

process seems to also have heating capability. I'm guessing that

this "pump"

is supplying steam through the tank car dome to heat the load and

sucking

product out the bottom, heating it further and then pumping it

into the dome

opening of the distributor.

This is how most of the county highway departments here in rural

America got

their emulsion in the steam era as they slowly went about

converting all of

those gravel roads to "paved" roads. So it was very common in the

steam era

to see these tank cars spotted just about anywhere that county

road work was

being done. Summer months only.

Mont Switzer

It looks very much like I remember the trucks used to mix

blacktop

right at the point of use. Fine rock and sand was spread and

sprayed

with oil, then a road grader would turn it over repeatedly until

it

was thoroughly mixed. It was then spread and rolled. The

partially

finished blacktop was often left overnight in an inverted V

shape in

the middle of the road, leaving a lane to drive on on each side.
Those old bowling shaped, kerosene burning pots were left at

each end

to warn people......now there's something that would be neat to
model.... It always seemed to take several days to do a stretch

of

road. I'm not sure if it was just the way the county workers

operated

or for other reasons.
In the upper midwest oil was also sometimes sprayed on

sections of

gravel roads that passed in front of folk's farm houses to keep

the

dust down.
Ken Olson
Western Wisconsin

In STMFC@..., "Justin Kahn" <harumd@h...> wrote:

Dear Clark
What a great shot! It makes my modelling urges all hot and

bothered. I am

not sure of the function of the equipment receiving the

tankcar

contents,

but I'd guess asphalt? Perhaps a road-paving contractor?
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

http://community.webshots.com/photo/69791072/126727054DVkyvh

The above link is to a photo of a tank car being unloaded in

rural

Minnesota.
Clark Propst

Yahoo! Groups Links

Schuyler Larrabee writes:

"Hey, look out! Brock's comin'! He's gonna rant
that this off topic again!"

Nah...Brock don't rant these days. Takes too much time and energy....although he will suggest from time to time.

"Oh, maybe I'd better not break too many rules in
one post!"

He does, however, have his finger on the "moderate" key.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

--- In STMFC@..., CBarkan@a... wrote:

Type 105 tank cars would not have been used in asphalt or road oil

service,

do you recall what industries were receiving them?

Chris Barkan

In a message dated 3/28/04 1:23:36 PM, rrfaned@a... writes:

<< This is a good use for tank cars on a model railroad with few

tank

car industries. As Mont said, cars were set out on house tracks,
team tracks, or back tracks where trucks could drive up next to

them

to be loaded. After I started railroad, I recall setting out

mostly

UTLX 105 type cars.

Chris,

I hit the wrong key, cars were ARA III or ICC 103 class cars. In
going back to the list of inbound loads arriving at Staunton, IL on
the ITC between 1944 and 1951, there were 31 cars of road oil shipped
to Illinois Road Builders c/o City of Staunton. Here is the cars
included in the ledger.

UTLX
4867 X 10K
5656 X 10K
5905 X 10K
11295 X 6.5K
24077 Z 10K
24280 Z "
24481 Z "
24621 Z "
28621 X-3 "
32836 X-3 "
35893 X-3 "
55446 X-3 "
57265 X-3 "
57725 Z "
57942 ? ?
72797 Z 8K
73323 Z "
90895 Z 10K
95777 Z 8K

RPX
873 10K
3331 "
3341 "
3378 "
3394 "
8546 8K
8665 "
10154 10K
10185 "

GATX
18574 10K
21468 "
24010 "

My April 1940 ORER does not show any RPX numbers higher than the 3600
series and I could not find RPX in the Westerfield July 1950 ORER.
Richard probably knows if they were absorbed into the Shell fleet by
then. The company in Northern Illinois that I remember doing this
type of road work was the C F Settle Co. from Moline, IL

Chet French
back in Dixon, IL

Chet French writes:

My April 1940 ORER does not show any RPX numbers higher than the 3600
series and I could not find RPX in the Westerfield July 1950 ORER.
Richard probably knows if they were absorbed into the Shell fleet by
then.

RPX was still in the 1/1945 ORER with more than 3,000 cars and in the
10/1947 ORER with a fleet of about 2,000 (some RPX cars were reassigned to
Shell Eastern Products [SEPX] and Shell of Calif. [SCCX] around the end of
World War II). By 1950, however, all of the RPX cars were gone from the
ORERs, and the number of SEPX and SCCX cars didn't increase enough to
account for them, so I don't know where they went - possibly to General
American for lease-back, but that's just a guess.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Hello Chet,



You're information on the set outs in Staunton is fascinating. I'm with the
Illinois Traction Society and we happen to be having our Annual Meet in
Staunton on the 24th of this month. I'm sure at least a few more than
myself would be interested in seeing your list if you're close enough to
join us. I'll have much more complete information posted on our web site,
Illinois Traction <http://www.illinoistractionsociety.org/> Society , later
this weekend. But, it's free for the day and dinner later in the evening is
$18.00.



At any rate, thanks for sharing your information with the STMFC list. It
will certainly help me to justify all the RPX tank cars I already have on
hand!



Best regards,



David Jobe

Illinois Traction System

1926 -1928



_____

From: Chet French [mailto:cfrench@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 1:06 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tank car unloading



--- In STMFC@..., CBarkan@a... wrote:

Type 105 tank cars would not have been used in asphalt or road oil

service,

do you recall what industries were receiving them?

Chris Barkan

In a message dated 3/28/04 1:23:36 PM, rrfaned@a... writes:

<< This is a good use for tank cars on a model railroad with few

tank

car industries. As Mont said, cars were set out on house tracks,
team tracks, or back tracks where trucks could drive up next to

them

to be loaded. After I started railroad, I recall setting out

mostly

UTLX 105 type cars.

Chris,

I hit the wrong key, cars were ARA III or ICC 103 class cars. In
going back to the list of inbound loads arriving at Staunton, IL on
the ITC between 1944 and 1951, there were 31 cars of road oil shipped
to Illinois Road Builders c/o City of Staunton. Here is the cars
included in the ledger.

UTLX
4867 X 10K
5656 X 10K
5905 X 10K
11295 X 6.5K
24077 Z 10K
24280 Z "
24481 Z "
24621 Z "
28621 X-3 "
32836 X-3 "
35893 X-3 "
55446 X-3 "
57265 X-3 "
57725 Z "
57942 ? ?
72797 Z 8K
73323 Z "
90895 Z 10K
95777 Z 8K

RPX
873 10K
3331 "
3341 "
3378 "
3394 "
8546 8K
8665 "
10154 10K
10185 "

GATX
18574 10K
21468 "
24010 "

My April 1940 ORER does not show any RPX numbers higher than the 3600
series and I could not find RPX in the Westerfield July 1950 ORER.
Richard probably knows if they were absorbed into the Shell fleet by
then. The company in Northern Illinois that I remember doing this
type of road work was the C F Settle Co. from Moline, IL

Chet French
back in Dixon, IL






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I checked my October 1948, and by this date the RPX
fleet was in the hands of Union Tank Car. Obviously
they quickly relettered it, because by this date only
100 cars still were listed under RPX reporting marks.

--
Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

Chet French writes:

My April 1940 ORER does not show any RPX numbers

higher than the 3600

series and I could not find RPX in the Westerfield

July 1950 ORER.

Richard probably knows if they were absorbed into

the Shell fleet by

then.

Richard Hendrickson replies:

RPX was still in the 1/1945 ORER with more than 3,000

cars and in the

10/1947 ORER with a fleet of about 2,000 (some RPX

cars were reassigned to

Shell Eastern Products [SEPX] and Shell of Calif.

[SCCX] around the end of

World War II). By 1950, however, all of the RPX cars

were gone from the

ORERs, and the number of SEPX and SCCX cars didn't

increase enough to

account for them, so I don't know where they went -

possibly to General

American for lease-back, but that's just a guess.

Gene Moser wrote:

All things are possible. Around 1990, give or take two years, while
spending the night at the Visiting Officers' Quarters at Defense General Supply
Center in Richmond, Virginia, I started taking pictures of a PS-1 boxcar and what
was probably a USRA 40 foot flat car. The boxcar still had a roof walk and
full ladders -- both of them with U.S. Army reporting marks. A security type
objected to me taking pictures of them.

Imagine if you did it now. You'd be in Guantanamo in three shakes of a lamb's tail, and not back on this list for years, if then.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history