Modeling a Well Used Gon


Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Check out the March 2004 issue of Model Railroading for some innovative work
by Jeff Eggert, who uses 0.001 brass to model the sides and ends of a used
and abused gon. This creates a very realistic appearance for the damaged
sides. The prototype is a modern CNW gon, but the techniques warrant a
closer look.


Ben Hom


Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 09:28 PM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote:

Check out the March 2004 issue of Model Railroading for some
innovative work
by Jeff Eggert, who uses 0.001 brass to model the sides and ends of a
used
and abused gon. This creates a very realistic appearance for the
damaged
sides. The prototype is a modern CNW gon, but the techniques warrant a
closer look.
I too thought it was a neat article, but WOW, it would be arduous to
build a fleet using his individual panel technique. In addition, since
he made all of the side stakes and top chord material out of plastic
stock and did not add rivets, his car represented a welded prototype.
For many steam era gon models, I have wondered about removing the
plastic/resin panels while retaining the structural steel and then
replacing all of the side panels with 0.005 brass, since the 0.001 is
like paper. IIRC, Mont Switzer did this for a PRR G24 using the IM kit
and replacing the wood sides, although I can't remember off the top of
my head if he used styrene or brass (Class G-24 USRA gondola rebuild
Mainline Modeler, February 2001 page 73).

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
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ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@...>
 

Bruce, and those that like gons;

I, too, found the method fascinating, but also limited for my uses. You
could spend a month on just the panels for a riveted gon (interior rivets
with ribs applied to other side). Still, fascinating.

Mont used styrene. I think .005 with embossed rivets at the lower edge. He
did not do the interior rivets.

I began another G24, but my attempt at pushing some panels out (bulging)
didn't look right. Styrene just does not take on the right look that
resembles stretched, dented metal. I would like to have a "last legs" G24
on my layout, but I have given up on making plastic actually physically
duplicate bulging and denting. I am experimenting right now with "tromp
l'oeil" (sp?) to see if I can fool myself into believing that it is actually
dented and all without doing it for real. I spent a weekend using
watercolor pencils to simulate that horseshoe-shaped bulging that abused gen
service gons get, particularly in the center panels. I also used various
colors to simulate dents, by pecking the surface. I think it has merit.
Has anyone experimented with this at all?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Modeling a Well Used Gon

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 09:28 PM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote:

Check out the March 2004 issue of Model Railroading for some
innovative work
by Jeff Eggert, who uses 0.001 brass to model the sides and ends of a
used
and abused gon. This creates a very realistic appearance for the
damaged
sides. The prototype is a modern CNW gon, but the techniques warrant a
closer look.
I too thought it was a neat article, but WOW, it would be arduous to
build a fleet using his individual panel technique. In addition, since
he made all of the side stakes and top chord material out of plastic
stock and did not add rivets, his car represented a welded prototype.
For many steam era gon models, I have wondered about removing the
plastic/resin panels while retaining the structural steel and then
replacing all of the side panels with 0.005 brass, since the 0.001 is
like paper. IIRC, Mont Switzer did this for a PRR G24 using the IM kit
and replacing the wood sides, although I can't remember off the top of
my head if he used styrene or brass (Class G-24 USRA gondola rebuild
Mainline Modeler, February 2001 page 73).

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0







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Brian Everett
 

Guys,

Have you ever thought about using something like aluminium pie pans
or the like for representing the side panels?
I came across some nice big pans at the grocery store - they are to
put at the bottom of the oven to catch the drips.
Fairly cheap, and I think you could add these and deform them after
installation if they were attached using epoxy or such.

Certainly something worth a try, although would be more difficult to
do on an older gon that is riveted vs welded construction.

Regards,
Brian Everett
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's


--- In STMFC@..., ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@t...> wrote:
Bruce, and those that like gons;

I, too, found the method fascinating, but also limited for my uses. You
could spend a month on just the panels for a riveted gon (interior
rivets
with ribs applied to other side). Still, fascinating.

Mont used styrene. I think .005 with embossed rivets at the lower
edge. He
did not do the interior rivets.

I began another G24, but my attempt at pushing some panels out (bulging)
didn't look right. Styrene just does not take on the right look that
resembles stretched, dented metal. I would like to have a "last
legs" G24
on my layout, but I have given up on making plastic actually physically
duplicate bulging and denting. I am experimenting right now with "tromp
l'oeil" (sp?) to see if I can fool myself into believing that it is
actually
dented and all without doing it for real. I spent a weekend using
watercolor pencils to simulate that horseshoe-shaped bulging that
abused gen
service gons get, particularly in the center panels. I also used
various
colors to simulate dents, by pecking the surface. I think it has merit.
Has anyone experimented with this at all?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Modeling a Well Used Gon

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 09:28 PM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote:

Check out the March 2004 issue of Model Railroading for some
innovative work
by Jeff Eggert, who uses 0.001 brass to model the sides and ends of a
used
and abused gon. This creates a very realistic appearance for the
damaged
sides. The prototype is a modern CNW gon, but the techniques
warrant a
closer look.
I too thought it was a neat article, but WOW, it would be arduous to
build a fleet using his individual panel technique. In addition, since
he made all of the side stakes and top chord material out of plastic
stock and did not add rivets, his car represented a welded prototype.
For many steam era gon models, I have wondered about removing the
plastic/resin panels while retaining the structural steel and then
replacing all of the side panels with 0.005 brass, since the 0.001 is
like paper. IIRC, Mont Switzer did this for a PRR G24 using the IM kit
and replacing the wood sides, although I can't remember off the top of
my head if he used styrene or brass (Class G-24 USRA gondola rebuild
Mainline Modeler, February 2001 page 73).

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0







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ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@...>
 

Brian;
Those pie/turkey pans are great. My wife is always asking where her turkey
pan went......

I use them for gon ends. A couple older Sunshine kits had formers, and you
could knock those babies out in a few minutes. I intend on doing some PS
gon ends using those techniques, but I have to generate a master. I have an
old drafting tool that was called a "burnisher" but I have found that a soft
wooden stick works just as well.

So, are you going to be the one that takes the big step and does a gon side
with this? I can't wait!

Elden Gatwood
Slowly modeling the PRR's Mon Branch of the...well, 1960, at least......

-----Original Message-----
From: dti_nut [mailto:Brian_Everett@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:25 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Modeling a Well Used Gon

Guys,

Have you ever thought about using something like aluminium pie pans
or the like for representing the side panels?
I came across some nice big pans at the grocery store - they are to
put at the bottom of the oven to catch the drips.
Fairly cheap, and I think you could add these and deform them after
installation if they were attached using epoxy or such.

Certainly something worth a try, although would be more difficult to
do on an older gon that is riveted vs welded construction.

Regards,
Brian Everett
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's


--- In STMFC@..., ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@t...> wrote:
Bruce, and those that like gons;

I, too, found the method fascinating, but also limited for my uses. You
could spend a month on just the panels for a riveted gon (interior
rivets
with ribs applied to other side). Still, fascinating.

Mont used styrene. I think .005 with embossed rivets at the lower
edge. He
did not do the interior rivets.

I began another G24, but my attempt at pushing some panels out (bulging)
didn't look right. Styrene just does not take on the right look that
resembles stretched, dented metal. I would like to have a "last
legs" G24
on my layout, but I have given up on making plastic actually physically
duplicate bulging and denting. I am experimenting right now with "tromp
l'oeil" (sp?) to see if I can fool myself into believing that it is
actually
dented and all without doing it for real. I spent a weekend using
watercolor pencils to simulate that horseshoe-shaped bulging that
abused gen
service gons get, particularly in the center panels. I also used
various
colors to simulate dents, by pecking the surface. I think it has merit.
Has anyone experimented with this at all?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Modeling a Well Used Gon

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 09:28 PM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote:

Check out the March 2004 issue of Model Railroading for some
innovative work
by Jeff Eggert, who uses 0.001 brass to model the sides and ends of a
used
and abused gon. This creates a very realistic appearance for the
damaged
sides. The prototype is a modern CNW gon, but the techniques
warrant a
closer look.
I too thought it was a neat article, but WOW, it would be arduous to
build a fleet using his individual panel technique. In addition, since
he made all of the side stakes and top chord material out of plastic
stock and did not add rivets, his car represented a welded prototype.
For many steam era gon models, I have wondered about removing the
plastic/resin panels while retaining the structural steel and then
replacing all of the side panels with 0.005 brass, since the 0.001 is
like paper. IIRC, Mont Switzer did this for a PRR G24 using the IM kit
and replacing the wood sides, although I can't remember off the top of
my head if he used styrene or brass (Class G-24 USRA gondola rebuild
Mainline Modeler, February 2001 page 73).

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/>
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/> >

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0







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John Boren <mccjbcmd@...>
 

The March 2004 issue of Model RailroadING has an article on exactly this
topic. The author, Jeff Eggert, uses .001 inch shim brass sheets which he
hammers in a jig to protect the edges so they will be flat to attach to the
ribs. He's basically scratchbuilding the sides of the gon.

His model captures the look of a gon with bulging side panels very well, and
the inside of the sides looks as good as the outside. This is the most
effective modeling of a well-used gon I have seen. I don't usually buy this
magazine, but got this issue specifically for this article.

Jack Boren


jerryglow2
 

I saved the last pull off lid from a 3lb (well 39oz) coffee can. It seems to
be a relatively tough but thin material that might do well for this purpose
and "patch panels" etc. I think they're also on cocktail nuts but the last I
got had a pattern on it making it useless.

Jerry Glow

original msg:...................
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:25:28 -0000
From: "dti_nut" <Brian_Everett@...>
Subject: Re: Modeling a Well Used Gon

Guys,

Have you ever thought about using something like aluminium pie pans
or the like for representing the side panels?
I came across some nice big pans at the grocery store - they are to
put at the bottom of the oven to catch the drips.
Fairly cheap, and I think you could add these and deform them after
installation if they were attached using epoxy or such.

Certainly something worth a try, although would be more difficult to
do on an older gon that is riveted vs welded construction.

Regards,
Brian Everett
Modeling the DT&I of the 60's & 70's


Scott Pitzer
 

Could something like this become a "master" for reproduction? It would be a start for further modification using thick ACC and painting tricks. Or even "as is" if you don't worry that your car will have the exact same bulges as everyone else.) It would save a lot of people a lot of time.
I suppose the resin molding/casting process would be very challenging with an oddly shaped master, and it can't have a flat back like typical kit parts.
Getting this in styrene would be asking too much (say, from the maker of a gondola kit, providing an "option" like some military kits have "battle damaged" parts...)
Scott Pitzer
=========

-----Original Message-----
From: John Boren <mccjbcmd@...>


The March 2004 issue of Model RailroadING has an article on exactly this
topic. The author, Jeff Eggert, uses .001 inch shim brass sheets which he
hammers in a jig


jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 23, 9:45am, ELDEN GATWOOD wrote:
I am experimenting right now with "tromp
l'oeil" (sp?) to see if I can fool myself into believing that it is
actually
dented and all without doing it for real. I spent a weekend using
watercolor pencils to simulate that horseshoe-shaped bulging that abused
gen
service gons get, particularly in the center panels. I also used
various
colors to simulate dents, by pecking the surface. I think it has merit.
Has anyone experimented with this at all?
You could make a decal from a color photo, and apply that. I *thought*
there was an article on doing this in a recent MR (a light green caboose,
IIRC) but I can't find the reference in the online index.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533