Modeling Duryea underframes


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I was looking at some B&O cars I'd like to model and all were built with
Duryea underframes. Does anyone out there make aftermarket parts to models
this style of underframe. If not, where can I find the information?
Probably in a Cyc but Idon't have any of those.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Shawn Beckert
 

Brian,

I believe Sunshine offers (or used to) a Duryea underframe as
one of their min-kits. Don't know about current availability,
or which models it could be used with.

Shawn Beckert


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Brian,

Yes, Sunshine does offer a mini-kit for a Duryea underframe ($6.00). I have one, and can attest that it is rather spartan and the instructions leave something to be desired. I think Martin assumed anybody who bought one would automatically know what to do with it. He says it was designed to replace the underframe on a Red Caboose 40' AAR boxcar to duplicate an ATSF prototype. There is no reason it couldn't be adapted to the X-29 type car, and there are some optional pieces included that might make it more accurate. I'm saving mine for a Santa Fe car that's been in the que for several years.

I am currently building a 1944 D&RGW 40' 12-panel boxcar. These also had Duryea underframes. I used an RMJ article from about ten years ago on improving a Walthers meat reefer as a guide. There was an excellent upside-down shot of the model which was a big help in understanding how the thing should fit together. I can't guarantee that the reefer underframe was the same as the Grande's (it certainly doesn't look much like the Sunshine kit), but it does look good. Mine is made from styrene strip stock, plus some wire.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Brian J Carlson wrote:

I was looking at some B&O cars I'd like to model and all were built with
Duryea underframes. Does anyone out there make aftermarket parts to models
this style of underframe. If not, where can I find the information?
Probably in a Cyc but Idon't have any of those.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone out there make aftermarket parts to models this style of
underframe?"

Garth Groff answered:
"Yes, Sunshine does offer a mini-kit for a Duryea underframe ($6.00)."

The latest Sunshine listing that I have from last October shows these
listed as mini-kit #M.2, "Four General Duryea underframe
parts/details for modification of plastic and resin 40' boxcar kits,"
$24.

Brian also asked:
"...where can I find the information?"

Ian Clasper posted in the files section a scan of a Duryea ad showing
the top view of this underframe. It doesn't help for brake details,
but it clearly shows the location of the crossbearers and where they
extend beneath the centersill.
http://tinyurl.com/2ngbl


Ben Hom


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Ben,

I ordered a single kit from Sunshine last year after speaking with Martin on the phone. I didn't know about the four-pack. Maybe this is new, or old, information.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone out there make aftermarket parts to models this style of underframe?"

Garth Groff answered:
"Yes, Sunshine does offer a mini-kit for a Duryea underframe ($6.00)."

The latest Sunshine listing that I have from last October shows these listed as mini-kit #M.2, "Four General Duryea underframe parts/details for modification of plastic and resin 40' boxcar kits," $24.

Brian also asked:
"...where can I find the information?"

Ian Clasper posted in the files section a scan of a Duryea ad showing the top view of this underframe. It doesn't help for brake details, but it clearly shows the location of the crossbearers and where they extend beneath the centersill.
http://tinyurl.com/2ngbl


Ben Hom


Richard Hendrickson
 

From Ben Hom:

The latest Sunshine listing that I have from last October shows these
listed as mini-kit #M.2, "Four General Duryea underframe
parts/details for modification of plastic and resin 40' boxcar kits,"
$24.

Brian also asked:
"...where can I find the information?"

Ian Clasper posted in the files section a scan of a Duryea ad showing
the top view of this underframe. It doesn't help for brake details,
but it clearly shows the location of the crossbearers and where they
extend beneath the centersill.
http://tinyurl.com/2ngbl
CAUTION! The Duryea cushion underframe was invented in the 1920s and
remained in production into the mid-1950s. During that time, it was
progressively improved, and I'm aware of at least four versions that were
quite different in appearance. For the B&O M26s with Duryea u/fs, the
version you want is shown in the O. C. Duryea ad on p. 349 of the 1931 Car
Builders' Cyclopedia. The late 1930s-early 1940s version modeled by
Sunshine's mini-kit was quite a bit different, with much heavier
crossmembers and sloping reinforcements on either side of the center sills
at the bolsters to control torsional twist, correcting a tendency that was
apparently a weakness of the early Duryea underframes.

One characteristic of all Duryea underframes was that the brake rigging was
not attached to the center sills (since the inner sills were designed to
slide lengthwise inside the outer sills). Instead, the brake rigging was
carried on longitudinal steel supports located slightly below the center
sills; these are often visible in low-angle side views of freight cars with
Duryea u/fs.

In modeling Duryea u/fs, note also that the draft gear extends beyond the
end sills by a foot or so more than the draft gear on a typical ARA or AAR
underframe, and in the case of the B&O M26 series, that the body bolsters
were located further in from the ends than on the PRR X29s and the M26s
without Duryea u/fs.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
CAUTION! The Duryea cushion underframe was invented in the 1920s and
remained in production into the mid-1950s. During that time, it was
progressively improved, and I'm aware of at least four versions that
were quite different in appearance. For the B&O M26s with Duryea
u/fs, the version you want is shown in the O. C. Duryea ad on p. 349
of the 1931 Car Builders' Cyclopedia.

Richard, thanks for the clarification. Do you remember what issue of
the CBC the ad in the files section is from?
http://tinyurl.com/2kko7


Ben Hom


Richard Hendrickson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

Richard, thanks for the clarification. Do you remember what issue of
the CBC the ad in the files section is from?
http://tinyurl.com/2kko7
Ben, when I try that URL I get a "document not found" message.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks to all for the information so far. The B&O car Class I am interested in modeling M-55H, built 1947. On Page 75 of RPC 8 there is a picture of a B&O Timesaver LCL painted car, July 1953 photo. I admit to secretly wanting another one of these after I got rid of the Athearn Bev-Bel ones from years past. Is the Sunshine underframe appropriate for this car or did the design change again by the early 50's?

Maybe my question should be, What cars did Martin have in mind when he tooled the underframes?

Thanks

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Apr 13, 2004, at 8:30 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Thanks to all for the information so far.  The B&O car Class I am
interested in modeling M-55H, built 1947. On Page 75 of RPC 8 there is
a picture of a B&O Timesaver LCL painted car, July 1953 photo. I admit
to secretly wanting another one of these after I got rid of the
Athearn Bev-Bel ones from years past.  Is the Sunshine underframe
appropriate for this car or did the design change again by the early
50's?

Maybe my question should be, What cars did Martin have in mind when
he tooled the underframes?
Brian:

You may know this, but the M-55H had 7 foot doors and will be available as a complete kit at this year's Naperville, or at least that's the
plan.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Cool, didn't know it would be available, the last new list I saw on your site for Sunshine was for the Steel Rebuild kits months ago. I plan on making my first trip to Naperville this year.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Brian,

According to a conversation I had with Martin, the underframes were designed to fit the Red Caboose 1937 AAR steel boxcar, specifically the Santa Fe versions.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Brian J Carlson wrote:

Thanks to all for the information so far. The B&O car Class I am interested in modeling M-55H, built 1947. On Page 75 of RPC 8 there is a picture of a B&O Timesaver LCL painted car, July 1953 photo. I admit to secretly wanting another one of these after I got rid of the Athearn Bev-Bel ones from years past. Is the Sunshine underframe appropriate for this car or did the design change again by the early 50's?

Maybe my question should be, What cars did Martin have in mind when he tooled the underframes?

Thanks
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


CBarkan@...
 

The B&O's version of the Duryea differed from the ATSF (and others'). I
cannot recall all the details but in general the B&O used solid underframe members
where other roads' versions used an open frame design for the cross members.

Chris

In a message dated 4/21/04 6:42:04 AM, ggg9y@... writes:

<< Brian,

According to a conversation I had with Martin, the underframes were
designed to fit the Red Caboose 1937 AAR steel boxcar, specifically the
Santa Fe versions.

Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff

Brian J Carlson wrote:

Thanks to all for the information so far. The B&O car Class I am interested
in modeling M-55H, built 1947. >>