Date
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Southern Pacific Mystery Photo
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Shawn Beckert
List,
Another photo from the Los Angeles Public Library: http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics22/00030510.jpg The picture is undated, but the caption reads "View of Train along Roosevelt Highway". Somehow, I don't think so. Roosevelt Highway runs through Malibu and Santa Monica in California, and I don't recall the Espee EVER going through Malibu. But hey, I'm just a young punk, what do I know.... Those look like old beet racks in front of the helper. Tony Thompson, what's the latest date those cars were in service? Yes, I have the gondola book, but haven't had time to read it yet. I know, shame on me... Shawn Beckert |
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Richard Hendrickson
From Shawn Beckert:
Another photo from the Los Angeles Public Library:That's the Coast Line north of Ventura where both the RR and the highway were practically on the beach. And the name "Roosevelt Highway" was applied to the entire coast highway (U.S. 101) in Southern Calif. at the time it was built, though the name fell out of use after WW II (having lived in Santa Barbara for several years in the '50s, I never heard it called anything but "101"). Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520 |
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Don Valentine
Quoting "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...>:
List, Nice photo, Shawn. Don't you wish California looked that good now!! <VBG> Perhaps the fact that it doesn't anymore is one reason why Richard and Sandra moved to Oregon!! <Even Bigger grin!> Don Valentine Don Valentine |
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Shawn Beckert
Don Valentine wrote:
Nice photo, Shawn. Don't you wish California lookedActually it's a lousy photo - I don't know what the photographer was trying to accomplish. If he'd just aimed a little more to the right he'd have done more for posterity than just a "scenic" view. http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics22/00030510.jpg What's interesting about the picture is that it shows an SP helper running SOUTH on the coast instead of the usual Northbound, or uphill direction - the first photo I can recall seeing of such a move. And not anywhere near what I would consider "helper" territory. The only thing I can think of is that the train must have been made up entirely of beets, which even in those days would have made for heavy tonnage. It's also puzzling because the beets are actually moving away from the nearest refinery, which would have been at Betteravia on the Coast Division. In the direction the train is traveling, the nearest beet refinery would have been Holly Sugar down in Orange County, a much further distance. Very strange... Shawn Beckert |
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Jay Bingham <j.bingham@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
wrote: List, I drive the highway about once a month. The picture shows the area about ten miles north of Ventura and about 3 miles sould of Rincon. There are now oil rigs in the bay to the left and there is a small community in the picture of about 200 people (can't think of the name now) on the mountain side of the line. Jay Bingham Pacific Plaisades, CA |
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Andy Carlson
-Shawn,
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let me remind you that Oxnard had a very large sugar refinery, lasting well into the 1950's. The site now is mostly Ventura County RR yard, but some industrial/agricultural businesses are there also. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA It's also puzzling because the beets are actually
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Andy Carlson
Actually, this area looks much like it did back when
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the photo was taken, the highway's enlargement being the most noticed change. This area is not very densely populated, mostly because the cliffs being so close to the breakers, which limits usable land. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA --- newrail@... wrote: Nice photo, Shawn. Don't you wish California Don Valentine |
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Dave Bayless
-Shawn stated:
It's also puzzling because the beets are actually Andy answered: let me remind you that Oxnard had a very large sugar Shawn and Andy This photo looks like it was taken just south of the Seacliff siding along the Rincon. I worked this line for many years and it still looks much like it does in the photo. It is not unusual for sugar beats to move south on the coast line. They are probably moving towards Los Angeles as there was a sugar plant at Dyer (Santa Ana-Holly Sugar) which lasted till 1979 and a Sugar Plant at Oxnard (American Beet Sugar) which lasted till 1958. There was also plants in Alvarado and 3-4 of them in Arizona. Plus the big plant in Carlton, (Holly Sugar) out in the Imperial Valley. However usually beets moved out of the Imperial Valley so it is hard to tell. I had the beets both east and west on the Mountain/Valley and Coast Lines several times. Dave Dave Bayless, UP/SP Engineer Denver, Northwestern and Pacific RR (The Mountain Road) Design and Operations Dept, Auburn, CA |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
The picture is undated, but the caption reads "ViewThe picture looks like the Coast Line beyond Ventura to me. I don't know where all the Roosevelt Highway extended. Those look like old beet racks in front of the helper.Yeah, yeah . . . the Blackburn racks began to disappear in 1948, when the first of the new composite GS gondolas arrived. I have no photo evidence, but I've been told that a few of them were used the following beet season, 1949. So the photo likely is no later than 1948. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Don Valentine, ever full of fun, wrote:
Nice photo, Shawn. Don't you wish California looked that good now!! <VBG>Don, the area in that particular photo is very much the same today. Not all of California has changed much, and not all of it for the worse. But I digress . . . Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Beckert, Shawn wrote:
What's interesting about the picture is that it showsShawn, you need to read Signor's _Coast Line_ book again. In late steam days, helpers were indeed used between Santa Barbara and Santa Susana Pass. It's also puzzling because the beets are actually movingIn the beet business, Shawn, beets moved in all directions, depending on who had sold beets to whom, and though I've never seen a photo of it, it would certainly be possible for beet trains to pass each other going in opposite directions. For example, Imperial Valley beets going to Betteravia, Salinas Valley beets going to a southern California location, such as Holly--or the Oxnard refinery of AMerican Beet Sugar--oh, that's right, it's in Signor's book, too, so you wouldn't have noticed it . . . <big grin> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Don Valentine
Quoting Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>:
Don Valentine, ever full of fun, wrote:Nice photo, Shawn. Don't you wish California looked that good now!!<VBG>and Not a problem for me, Tony, but it is really nice to think that some of California still looks like the area in the photo without going to Alturus or Adin or such. It certainly is not the same in the L.A. basin where several cousins live. But someone said the area to the right is now all built up and that to the left is now full of oil rigs, which probably don't ship in tank cars and what about the sugar beet traffic? Is that gone now? Don Valentine |
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Shawn Beckert
Tony admonishes:
Shawn, you need to read Signor's _Coast Line_ book again.What do you mean "again"? You mean I'm supposed to READ all those books I have stacked on the floor?? Sheesh... Shawn Beckert |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
On May 20, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:
What do you mean "again"? You mean I'm supposed to READ allOnly if you want the information, Shawn, only if you want the information. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
But someone said the area to the right is now all built up , , ,Not exactly. A few houses in a group; there were a FEW even back then. and that to the left is now full of oil rigs, which probably don't ship inSome oil rigs along the coast itself are now gone; others are on offshore platforms a ways out. Sugar beets are gone from California AFAIK but are still raised in a few places like Idaho, just like sugar cane is still raised in Loosiana and a very few places in Hawaii. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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