Don Valentine writes-

....the first Kadee coupler box.
This was the one with the small pin that fit into a slot in the coupler shank
that, in turn, had two springs with round inserts inside them that were
installed fore and aft of said pin. Even a young buck like you, Denny, should
remember that one (-: but may have overlooked it in your post.

Of course, in absolute terms, you are correct, Don, but only when one refers to the "original" mechanical Kadee couplers of the 1950s (c. 1951?) (:-)

The slotted coupler shanks with the two springs for and aft of a center post was indeed their original standard (and it continues on today essentially unchanged as MKD #4). Kadee was only a small player then, and they in turn adopted this type of coupler shank for their new couplers from other model suppliers of the same time, the most well known to us today was Ulrich (MDC too, I believe). If my memory serves, the Devore and MDC couplers also used this same shank, and the Varney couplers were designed to be easily adapted to this centerpost type of box.

Although not abandoning their original box/coupler shank combination, when Kadee developed their new line of magnetic couplers c. 1959, they also at the same time developed new the folded sheet bronze springs that have become so familiar to us today. These were designed to fit the Athearn boxes, which were significantly wider than the old Kadee boxes designed for the slotted shanks. Furthermore, the Athearn boxes had in their center a relatively large round hollow post could not accommodate the slotted shanks.

The pretty-well-done PFM and Kemtron "universal" coupler boxes were principally designed to accommodate both the original mechanical and subsequent magnetic Kadee #4 couplers.

Many people do not recall that the Athearn coupler boxes were NOT originally designed for the X2F or but instead were designed for their own ring-shank cast metal dummy couplers. I do not recall how many years Athearn sold their new injected molded cars with the dummies before they started including the X2F coupler instead.

I still have a pile of the dummy couplers. Crude, but when painted with thick paint, they looked good (they were small).

Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these couplers whenever I can do so.

For awhile, Kadee marketed both the old mechanical and new magnetic couplers side by side. I have a feeling that this lasted only as long as their inventory allowed.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento

I believe that only one centering spring is/was used on the MKD-4
(Magnetic Kadee Delayed, now just No.4), MK-4 (magnetic but no delay
feature) and the K-4 (mechanical knuckle pin, non-magnetic) couplers.
The K-4 and the MK-4 both used a stiffer spring without the filler
piece. The MKD-4 used a lighter spring to prevent the spring from
collapsing under load. The projections on the side of the coupler box
prevented the shank from going deeper into the box. The spring was
located between the end of the shank and the pin in the box. Spring
pressure kept the shank projections against the box projections, keeping
the coupler centered. Some couplers of that time had longer slots and
used two stiff springs that did not center the coupler. I will look at
the early ads to see which way the original worked.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message in part-----
From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods.


Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight
in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number
of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from
the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert
a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to
reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and
aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together
is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these
couplers whenever I can do so.

I missed a few words. :-(


I believe that only one centering spring is/was used on the MKD-4
(Magnetic Kadee Delayed, now just No.4), MK-4 (magnetic but no delay
feature) and the K-4 (mechanical knuckle pin, non-magnetic) couplers.
The K-4 and the MK-4 both used a stiffer spring without the filler
piece. The MKD-4 used a lighter spring with the filler to prevent the
spring from
collapsing under load. The projections on the side of the coupler box
prevented the shank from going deeper into the box. The spring was
located between the end of the shank and the pin in the box. Spring
pressure kept the shank projections against the box projections, keeping
the coupler centered. Some couplers of that time had longer slots and
used two stiff springs that did not center the coupler. I will look at
the early ads to see which way the original worked.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message in part-----
From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods.


Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight
in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number
of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from
the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert
a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to
reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and
aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together
is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these
couplers whenever I can do so.










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Quoting Denny Anspach <danspach@...>:

Don Valentine writes-

....the first Kadee coupler box.
This was the one with the small pin that fit into a slot in the coupler

shank

that, in turn, had two springs with round inserts inside them that

were

installed fore and aft of said pin. Even a young buck like you, Denny,

should

remember that one (-: but may have overlooked it in your post.

Of course, in absolute terms, you are correct, Don, but only when one
refers to the "original" mechanical Kadee couplers of the 1950s (c.
1951?) (:-)

The slotted coupler shanks with the two springs for and aft of a
center post was indeed their original standard (and it continues on
today essentially unchanged as MKD #4). Kadee was only a small player
then, and they in turn adopted this type of coupler shank for their
new couplers from other model suppliers of the same time, the most
well known to us today was Ulrich (MDC too, I believe). If my memory
serves, the Devore and MDC couplers also used this same shank, and
the Varney couplers were designed to be easily adapted to this
centerpost type of box.

Although not abandoning their original box/coupler shank combination,
when Kadee developed their new line of magnetic couplers c. 1959,
they also at the same time developed new the folded sheet bronze
springs that have become so familiar to us today. These were designed
to fit the Athearn boxes, which were significantly wider than the
old Kadee boxes designed for the slotted shanks. Furthermore, the
Athearn boxes had in their center a relatively large round hollow
post could not accommodate the slotted shanks.

The pretty-well-done PFM and Kemtron "universal" coupler boxes were
principally designed to accommodate both the original mechanical and
subsequent magnetic Kadee #4 couplers.

Many people do not recall that the Athearn coupler boxes were NOT
originally designed for the X2F or but instead were designed for
their own ring-shank cast metal dummy couplers. I do not recall how
many years Athearn sold their new injected molded cars with the
dummies before they started including the X2F coupler instead.

I still have a pile of the dummy couplers. Crude, but when painted
with thick paint, they looked good (they were small).

Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight
in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number
of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from
the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert
a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to
reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and
aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together
is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these
couplers whenever I can do so.

For awhile, Kadee marketed both the old mechanical and new magnetic
couplers side by side. I have a feeling that this lasted only as long
as their inventory allowed.

MKD-4 it is, Denny! Thanks. Not being where all one's "stuff" is makes
it hard to check such things.

Don Valentine

Denny Anspach wrote:

Many people do not recall that the Athearn coupler boxes were NOT
originally designed for the X2F or but instead were designed for
their own ring-shank cast metal dummy couplers. I do not recall how
many years Athearn sold their new injected molded cars with the
dummies before they started including the X2F coupler instead.

Denny,

I can't remember if the very first Athearn (ca. 1957) plastic kits came with
metal dummy couplers (I want to say no, but can't prove it), but they
certainly had NMRA RP-25 couplers by the time of the first review in MR of
July 1957 and the Athearn ad in the same issue - both mention or display the
NMRA RP-25.

That same issue had a Kadee ad for their new quick adapting couplers for the
"ATHERN" (sic) plastic freight cars. This had the formed bronze spring but
was the straight pin Kadee (pre Magne-Matic) uncoupling pin.

I have some of the Athearn ring-shank dummies you refer to, but I believe
they came with earlier metal kits. The last inclusion in a kit I remember
was with the Athearn (Globe) F-7 dummy units, of the gold-painted, $.98
variety.

Dick

Dick,

When I was very young, I had an early Athearn plastic kit for a streamlined coach (the sides, ends and roof were all separate). It came with metal ring dummy couplers.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Richard Dermody wrote:

Off topic for STMFC, but the first Athearn flat plastic kits for passenger
cars were, like the F7s, sold under the "Globe" brand. I don't think there
were any "Globe" plastic freight car kits, but I might be wrong because Irv
apparently established the Globe label to distance the cheap plastic stuff
from the standard Athearn cast and stamped metal freight car line (many may
not know, like Varney, was started in Chicago which was a hotbed of early
model manufacturers).
Ye gads, Garth, you've reminded me that I bought NEW kits with ring-style
dummy couplers!!!!
Charlie Vlk