Athearn's new John Deere Tractors


asychis@...
 

These will make excellent loads. I can't wait to find out waht years they
represent. Something very curious too, Atheran has a licensing agreement with
Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP. Once burned?

Jerry Michels


asychis@...
 

In a message dated 9/24/2004 2:51:35 PM Central Standard Time,
chris_hillman@msn.com writes:
There should be a NMRMA, (National Model Railroad Manufacturer Association),
if there isn't one, to establish certain principles like that. Or, I only buy
that which does so list it's original production era.

They did all the research to make the model. Why not tell us??
Does MRIA cover this sort of thing?

Jerry Michels


ian clasper <ianclasper@...>
 

Hello Folks

Athearn are too produce three John Deere 1/87 scale tractors.

http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/0904late/DEERE_HO_tra_0904_late.jpg

Question is, what production years are these tractors ?
Looking at the photos, they would make great flatcar loads and are
not too expensive.

Ian Clasper


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jerry Michels wrote:
These will make excellent loads. I can't wait to find out waht years they
represent. Something very curious too, Atheran has a licensing agreement with
Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP. Once burned?
Or maybe Deere has a REASONABLE licensing agreement.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Sep 24, 2004, at 10:21 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Jerry Michels wrote:
Something very curious too, Atheran has a licensing
> agreement with
> Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP.  Once burned?

      Or maybe Deere has a REASONABLE licensing agreement.
Athearn's licensing agreement with Deere predates the current flap with
UP or even UP's efforts at strongarming, er, licensing. By the way,
the Deere Series 60 that is being offered is a few years old and Gene
Green made some observations about them on this list. Check the
archives..

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
 

Not to get too far off topic, the September Mainline Modeler has an editorial on the subject of licensing.
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Culotta
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Athearn's new John Deere Tractors



On Sep 24, 2004, at 10:21 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

> > Jerry Michels wrote:
> Something very curious too, Atheran has a licensing
> > agreement with
> > Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP. Once burned?
>
> Or maybe Deere has a REASONABLE licensing agreement.
>
Athearn's licensing agreement with Deere predates the current flap with
UP or even UP's efforts at strongarming, er, licensing. By the way,
the Deere Series 60 that is being offered is a few years old and Gene
Green made some observations about them on this list. Check the
archives..

Regards,
Ted Culotta


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Jason C
 

--- ian clasper <ianclasper@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello Folks

Athearn are too produce three John Deere 1/87 scale
tractors.
http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/0904late/DEERE_HO_tra_0904_late.jpg

Question is, what production years are these
tractors ?
Looking at the photos, they would make great flatcar
loads and are
not too expensive.

Ian Clasper
Ian,

The GP and Unstyled D are both prewar with the GP
dating to the early '30s IIRC and the D back as far as
1923 or 24 and later depending on the diameter of the
spoked flywheel. If you can spot a 2" difference on
that flywheel, then I guess you'll be able to tell if
it's a 1923-24 or a later model. The Model 60 would
be early to mid 1950's. For a new, in transit load,
1954-56 would probably be safe. Don't have my books
here at work, it may go as early as '53 or even '52
although I think the "A" was still in production in
'52. Excellent looking tractors from Athearn but I'd
really like to see someone branch out and do the
Farmalls, Allis Chalmers, Olivers, and so on. Hope
this helps.

Sincerely,
Jason Cook
Fort Wayne, IN




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Jason C
 

--- asychis@aol.com wrote:

These will make excellent loads. I can't wait to
find out waht years they
represent. Something very curious too, Atheran has a
licensing agreement with
Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP. Once
burned?

Jerry Michels
Deere is well known to agressively protect and market
their trademarks and image. Deere's lawyers have
walked into more than one toy tractor show and handed
out cease and desist orders to custom builders of farm
toys. Green paint and yellow decals are a whole
different world from what we are used to in model
railroading and I shudder to think that we are on that
path. I've heard rumors that Deere makes as much from
merchandising and licensing as they do from selling ag
equipment. I'd much rather face off against the UP
than Deere & Co in court. Athearn picked the smarter
fight.

Jason Cook
Fort Wayne, IN



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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

And again, Deere has been doing this for many years now; they didn't just
recently decide to shut the barn door.
--
Brian Ehni

From: Jason C <dhc628@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Athearn's new John Deere Tractors

--- asychis@aol.com wrote:

These will make excellent loads. I can't wait to
find out waht years they
represent. Something very curious too, Atheran has a
licensing agreement with
Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP. Once
burned?

Jerry Michels
Deere is well known to agressively protect and market
their trademarks and image. Deere's lawyers have
walked into more than one toy tractor show and handed
out cease and desist orders to custom builders of farm
toys. Green paint and yellow decals are a whole
different world from what we are used to in model
railroading and I shudder to think that we are on that
path. I've heard rumors that Deere makes as much from
merchandising and licensing as they do from selling ag
equipment. I'd much rather face off against the UP
than Deere & Co in court. Athearn picked the smarter
fight.

Jason Cook
Fort Wayne, IN


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Jason and Ian,

You should keep an eye on the miniature Christmas ornaments from Hallmark. Every year they offer a new die cast tractor in approximately HO scale. These are not as nicely done as the Athearn tractors, but far better than the old soft metal blobs we used to put up with. Add a new steering wheel, remove the little hanging loop, a little weathering, and voila!, you have a pretty good looking model. I don't know what this year's offering is; it looks a bit like the model D but I'm pretty sure it isn't a Deere. Last year (or maybe the year before) they offered a really nice Minneapolis-Moline which I grabbed. Some Hallmark shops close out their stuff for 1/2 price after Christmas. Others keep back stock at reduced prices.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Ian and Jason wrote:

Athearn are too produce three John Deere 1/87 scale
tractors.
http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/0904late/DEERE_HO_tra_0904_late.jpg

Ian Clasper


Ian,
. . . Excellent looking tractors from Athearn but I'd
really like to see someone branch out and do the
Farmalls, Allis Chalmers, Olivers, and so on. Hope
this helps.

Sincerely,
Jason Cook
Fort Wayne, IN


C J Wyatt
 

<<Deere is well known to agressively protect and market
their trademarks and image. Deere's lawyers have
walked into more than one toy tractor show and handed
out cease and desist orders to custom builders of farm
toys. Green paint and yellow decals are a whole
different world from what we are used to in model
railroading and I shudder to think that we are on that
path. I've heard rumors that Deere makes as much from
merchandising and licensing as they do from selling ag
equipment. I'd much rather face off against the UP
than Deere & Co in court. Athearn picked the smarter
fight.

Jason Cook
Fort Wayne, IN>>

This is probably not the place to discuss licensing, but I think Jason is
right. For JD even to look at your licensed product idea, you have to put
out a thousand dollars: http://www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/licensing/

I don't think Athearn is being inconsistent since its main product line,
model trains, has traditionally been marketed without licensing. John
Deere's product licensing goes back a long way, so in a sense it has decided
almost from the start that miscellaneous products with its trademarks are
part of its business.

Jack Wyatt


Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

They also sell the product - something that UP does not do. Of course, were you in S scale, all of this would be years old - there have been MANY choices for years. Farm Alls, Fords, Deere's, etc. Combines, plows, etc - they (the manufacturer, not Deere) coordinate with several manufacturers and have complete sets for the farm. And have for years. And Deere has had farm sets for years. In S scale, this translates to wonderful load possibilities. Fortunately, they also recognize the value of producing (and vetting) historical products. And, as I say, they sell them.

On the opposite side of "The Field of Dreams" in Iowa (Dyersville) is one factory where these are made - and the factory shop is almost enough for someone to want to cross scales by itself. Cows, sheep, and other farm animals, farm machinery, "barns" 9though there are many better choices), fences, etc. - the result is, one can fill a stock car, or have flat cars with very nice loads. And, when one goes to the factory, a bag of cows costs what a card (of cows) does in a regular shop. So, filling out that stock pen and those PBL cars is no problem....

There is a monthly magazine that they publish with all of the offerings, and they always have the collectors in there. Walls of farm stuff. and they obviously know the difference. Which is a good thing, because I have to take the word on it.

At 01:24 PM 9/24/2004, you wrote:
And again, Deere has been doing this for many years now; they didn't just
recently decide to shut the barn door.
--
Brian Ehni


From: Jason C <dhc628@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Athearn's new John Deere Tractors

--- asychis@aol.com wrote:

These will make excellent loads. I can't wait to
find out waht years they
represent. Something very curious too, Atheran has a
licensing agreement with
Deere.....Hmmmm, and a lawsuit with UP. Once
burned?

Jerry Michels
Deere is well known to agressively protect and market
their trademarks and image. Deere's lawyers have
walked into more than one toy tractor show and handed
out cease and desist orders to custom builders of farm
toys. Green paint and yellow decals are a whole
different world from what we are used to in model
railroading and I shudder to think that we are on that
path. I've heard rumors that Deere makes as much from
merchandising and licensing as they do from selling ag
equipment. I'd much rather face off against the UP
than Deere & Co in court. Athearn picked the smarter
fight.

Jason Cook
Fort Wayne, IN


ljack70117@...
 

On Friday, September 24, 2004, at 02:24 PM, Brian Paul Ehni wrote:

And again, Deere has been doing this for many years now; they didn't just
recently decide to shut the barn door.
--
Brian Ehni
Same goes for UPS. They just don't let any one use their's. Even their package trucks are their own design and are protected.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
If love is blind, why do we speak of love at first sight?


Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

True, true. I remember the Walthers resin trucks with decals that had to be
spliced together...
--
Brian Ehni

From: "ljack70117@adelphia.net" <ljack70117@adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:27:39 -0400
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Brian Ehni <behni@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Athearn's new John Deere Tractors


On Friday, September 24, 2004, at 02:24 PM, Brian Paul Ehni wrote:

And again, Deere has been doing this for many years now; they didn't
just
recently decide to shut the barn door.
--
Brian Ehni
Same goes for UPS. They just don't let any one use their's. Even their
package trucks are their own design and are protected.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
If love is blind, why do we speak of love at first sight?


Paul Hillman
 

--- asychis@aol.com<mailto:asychis@aol.com> wrote:

These will make excellent loads. I can't wait to
find out what years they represent.

***************************************************************************************
This is something which I've been wanting to see for a long time, that model manufacturers would always state the era of the prototype which they have modelled, instead of leaving it up to the potential consumer to determine.

Some models do contain those era-descriptions, but it would be nice if they all did.

There should be a NMRMA, (National Model Railroad Manufacturer Association), if there isn't one, to establish certain principles like that. Or, I only buy that which does so list it's original production era.

They did all the research to make the model. Why not tell us??

Paul Hillman


Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

In a message dated 9/24/2004 2:51:35 PM Central Standard Time,
chris_hillman@msn.com writes:
There should be a NMRMA, (National Model Railroad Manufacturer Association),
if there isn't one, to establish certain principles like that. Or, I only buy
that which does so list it's original production era.

They did all the research to make the model. Why not tell us??
Because if they did put the date on, it might mean fewer sales. Of course, the fact that there are a lot of folk who won't buy something without knowing that information should indicate that there is a equal but opposite reaction to that thinking. But I doubt they even consider that argument.


Paul Hillman
 

Paul Hillman wrote;

They did all the research to make the model. Why not tell us, (it's era)??
*************************************************************************************
Response;

Does MRIA cover this sort of thing?

Jerry Michels
*************************************************************************************
Good question Jerry.

They might just be the solution-source.

Older prototypes still exist to this day which modellers can use on their layouts in various ways, but as far as concerns the original era of production, all these myriad manufacturers should have by now figured out that there are MANY modellers who seek era data, especially since railroading has waned, unfortunately, from it's "Glory Years", and many of us wish to recapture the periods of the past (or our youths) when many of these things actually existed in time. (Mission of the STMFC!!??)

I don't see how hard it would be for them to do, and it should be considered an industry standard practice.

Paul Hillman


George Hollwedel <georgeloop1338@...>
 

When the N Scale ones came out, I went to goggle and found out the dates. I model 1953 and the 60's are brand new then.



Bob Webber <rswebber@concentric.net> wrote:


In a message dated 9/24/2004 2:51:35 PM Central Standard Time,
chris_hillman@msn.com writes:
There should be a NMRMA, (National Model Railroad Manufacturer Association),
if there isn't one, to establish certain principles like that. Or, I only buy
that which does so list it's original production era.

They did all the research to make the model. Why not tell us??
Because if they did put the date on, it might mean fewer sales. Of
course, the fact that there are a lot of folk who won't buy something
without knowing that information should indicate that there is a equal but
opposite reaction to that thinking. But I doubt they even consider that
argument.





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George Hollwedel
Prototype N Scale Models
georgeloop@austin.rr.com
310 Loma Verde Street
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883

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Tim O'Connor
 

Ted, I'm fairly sure that was the Series 50. This is a new model,
following the Model B, and the 50 series, chronologically. There
is lots of tractor info online e.g.

http://johnnypopper.com/jdnumb1.shtml

Tim O'Connor

the Deere Series 60 that is being offered is a few years old and Gene
Green made some observations about them on this list. Check the
archives..

Regards, Ted Culotta


Earl Tuson
 

the GP dating to the early '30s IIRC
I have the GP as produced 1928-1935...

and the D back as far as 1923 or 24 and later depending
on the diameter of the spoked flywheel.
and the unstyled D as 1924-1938 (while the styled D continued in production until 1953!)

The Model 60 would be early to mid 1950's.��For a new, in
transit load,1954-56 would probably be safe.
1952-1956

�although I think the "A" was still in production in '52.
Yes, 1952 was the last year for JD A's.

A great source for this information and more is www.ytmag.com. Goto the brand you are trying to research and click on serial numbers. That will show exactly what years each model was produced. Elsewhere on the web, you can find production quantities, which might give you a better idea what tractors would be more commonly seen and which were more rare (only about 30,000 JD GP tractors were built, compared to over 10 times that number each of JD A and B tractors.) Lastly, understanding how and what various models were used for can help one select an appropriate tractor for a load. For example, the JD D was called a "Wheatland" tractor, and as such was seldomly sold in, say, New England or the South. Tractor sales often had a regional aspect to them, particularly the smaller manufacturers.

Earl Tuson