Hello all,

I've just posted two photos that some of you may find interesting (I find them
fascinating, but I'm a little biased.) Both shots show the same southbound CV
local in Willimantic, Conn. Ben Hom and Richard Hendrickson have identified
some of the cars in one of the pictures. The second shot shows some of the
other cars hidden by the angle of the first picture.

I'm not surprised by the presence of the Pennsy boxcar, or any of the boxcars
for that matter.

The L&N gon and the C&I hopper strike me as two cars that beat the old
model railroad adage about car distribution to death. And yes, I've now
managed to find pics of other L&N gons on the CV -- amazing what you find
when you look for it.

Now, how can I build a model of that L&N gon in HO scale?

Enjoy!

Marty

Marty McGuirk wrote:

Hello all,

I've just posted two photos that some of you may find interesting (I find them
fascinating, but I'm a little biased.) Both shots show the same southbound CV
local in Willimantic, Conn. Ben Hom and Richard Hendrickson have identified
some of the cars in one of the pictures. The second shot shows some of the
other cars hidden by the angle of the first picture.

I'm not surprised by the presence of the Pennsy boxcar, or any of the boxcars
for that matter.

The L&N gon and the C&I hopper strike me as two cars that beat the old
model railroad adage about car distribution to death. And yes, I've now
managed to find pics of other L&N gons on the CV -- amazing what you find
when you look for it.

Now, how can I build a model of that L&N gon in HO scale?

Marty,

A C&I Hopper was one of the last 100 cars on the Suncook Valley RR in November 1952. C&I #5110 arrived with a load of Bituminous Coal from Colver PA for a dealer in Epsom NH. There was also a C&I Hopper (#4018) on the March 2nd, 1936 XB-2 (Bellows Falls-Boston) symbol. #4018's final destination was Cambridge MA. Mines on the C&I had a steady stream of customers in New England so I am not all that surprised that a C&I hopper was in the Willimantic local. Dwight Smith always felt that coal hoppers had screwy routings - I assume that the "SNE's" C&I hopper arrived via the Rutland-Rouses Point (Alberg)-CV, and not by a more direct route via Palmer (B&A) or Willimantic (NH).

The "raison d'etre" of the distribution of ownership among Gondolas baffles me somewhat. Serving the steel business may something to do with it. I suspect that the L&N gon probably arrived on the "SNE" carrying a load of steel or pipe - the L&N did inhabit Birmingham where, I believe, the largest pipe mill in the country was. Although it is likely that this L&N gon was not loaded in Birmingham, but at another mill closer to Willimantic.

Take care, Tim Gilbert

Tim,

Thanks for the thoughts and comments.

There really wasn't much interchange with the NH in Willimantic -- and this train is heading away from Palmer, although it's possible it will be backhauled to Palmer "tomorrow" in CV train 429.

One other possibility is this car is heading for New London where it will likely end up in the "Inchworm" -- the New Haven-New London NYNH&H job -- from there up and over the Maybrook line and back west into the Indian country across the Hudson -- or on a NH train to New York with a float connection to the PRR.

Marty
.
On Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 10:20 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

From Tim Gilbert

<< Serving the steel business may something to do with
it. I suspect that the L&N gon probably arrived on the "SNE" carrying a
load of steel or pipe - the L&N did inhabit Birmingham where, I believe,

the largest pipe mill in the country was. Although it is likely that
this L&N gon was not loaded in Birmingham, but at another mill closer to

Willimantic.<<

L&N described a good many of their gondolas as coal cars in the ORER. My
observations from a few limited examples ("research" would dignify my
efforts by suggesting more rigour than is actually the case) suggest
that gondolas were extensively used for coal traffic well into the post
war period as many smaller consignees apparently didn't have facilities
for unloading hoppers.

Now this doesn't suggest that Tim is wrong in his conjecture of a load
of pipe. The Birmingham area was _the_ place for cast iron pipe
production and shipped product everywhere. Impurities in the local
Warrior coal tended to make it less favourable for the production of
steel so the mills and foundries tended to concentrate on pig iron cast
iron and ductile iron production.

Aidrian

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Friends,

Just to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, I photographed a C&I hopper on the old C&O Mountain Division here in Charlottesville circa 1985. It was the only time I ever saw one, and haven't the faintest idea why it was here, except that it was in loaded coal train headed for Newport News. Obviously these things got around quite a bit.Yes, the date is beyond our era of interest, but the car itself wasn't. It was an offset twin dating from the 1940s or so.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Tim,

Regarding the C&I hopper, why assume it came via the Rutland
at all? The NYC had access to the Cambria & Indiana via the
jointly owned Cherry Tree & Dixonville, so a likely routing
is via interchange at Palmer with the B&A.

Another possible route for that C&I hopper was via the D&H to
Whitehall, then the Rutland to Bellows Falls, and the CV from
there. But it begs the question of how the D&H would get it.

Tim

Marty McGuirk wrote:

Tim,

Thanks for the thoughts and comments.

There really wasn't much interchange with the NH in Willimantic -- and
this train is heading away from Palmer, although it's possible it will
be backhauled to Palmer "tomorrow" in CV train 429.

In a 1947 NH Package Car Schedule, NH symbol BA-1 (Boston-Hartford) brought direct LCL cars for CV's St. Albans Transfer from Boston, Leominster & Providence. AB-2 (Hartford-Boston) brought direct LCL cars from Hartford. The interchange was made at Willimantic. LCL Cars for St. Albans from Bridgeport, Cedar Hill, New Britain, New Haven, New London & Waterbury were interchanged at New London. Cars from Fall River & New Bedford were carried on NH's UL-2 for interchange at Lowell, and the B&M, and thence to WRJ for delivery to the CV. The New Haven symbol freight was published as part of the schedule.

Meanwhile, St. Albans originated cars for Providence via Willimantic & cars for PRR's Philadelphia Transfer (PRR) and NH's Cedar Hill Transfer which were delivered to the New Haven at New London.

In 1952, however, the NH consolidated most of their interline LCL traffic at Cedar Hill, which would have eliminated the Willimantic connection. BA-1 and AB-2 were discontinued by 1958.

Tim Gilbert

Look at those boxcars with the different heights. When will those vesties learn that you can't run
models of different scales together.

Eric Petersson

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Nah, not different heights -- just different thicknesses of washers between the bolster and trucks <g>

Marty

FWIW, the 3rd car in the train seems to be Canadian Pacific (is it a compass or something in the slogan on the right side? I don't have my CDS catalog handy.)
The 6th car has that Reading look, to me anyway.
Scott Pitzer
=======

I agree, that car looks to me like a CPR "minibox" with "Spans the
World" herald. The boxcar directly behind the locomotive might have
M&StL "The Peoria Gateway" lettering.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

FWIW, the 3rd car in the train seems to be Canadian Pacific (is it a

compass or something in the slogan on the right side? I don't have my
CDS catalog handy.)

The 6th car has that Reading look, to me anyway.
Scott Pitzer

Scott Pitzer wrote:
FWIW, the 3rd car in the train seems to be Canadian Pacific (is it a compass
or something in the slogan on the right side? I don't have my CDS catalog
handy.)

The "Spans the World" banner has a compass rose surrounded by a ship,
airplane, and train, and was used on boxcars and reefers 1947-1951.


Ben Hom

Both are correct.

And one of the cars looks to me like a LV car as well.

Marty

On Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 03:33 PM, pieter_roos wrote:

I agree, that car looks to me like a CPR "minibox" with "Spans the
World" herald. The boxcar directly behind the locomotive might have
M&StL "The Peoria Gateway" lettering.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

FWIW, the 3rd car in the train seems to be Canadian Pacific (is it a

compass or something in the slogan on the right side?  I don't have my
CDS catalog handy.)

The 6th car has that Reading look, to me anyway.
Scott Pitzer

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Marty,I hope you have included some CV hopper bottom box cars in
dedicated grain service, or others of the 40000 series in captive service on
your roster.The top loading hatches make some of the cars in that series
rather distinctive.Armand Premo

Armand,

I think (I need to check this first) that the grain-hatch equipped
40000 cars are just a little late for me.

I do have several 40000 cars, two of them in dedicated LCL
service on the wayfreight -- usually coupled behind the engine or
in front of the van.

These are Steam Shack (F&C) kits that have had the problems
with the ends fixed and the molded in grain lessened.

Marty