fallen flags web site intriguing car


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

An interesting photo on this site is of CNW 128698, a double sheathed box car from 1912. What I found odd was the dark lines or shadows spaced along the side sheathing, making it look somewhat like the panels of a steel sheathed car. What is it in the design that gives this appearance?
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/cnw128698asw.jpg

Rob Kirkham


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yes, that is interesting. It looks to me like
overlaid? steel? bars on the side. The fasteners
at the bottom of the side at each vertical piece
lend to that impression. They >could< also be
thicker, and wider, wooden pieces. Interesting.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kirkham [mailto:rdkirkham@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] fallen flags web site
intriguing car


An interesting photo on this site is of CNW
128698, a double
sheathed box car from 1912. What I found odd
was the dark
lines or shadows spaced along the side
sheathing, making it
look somewhat like the panels of a steel
sheathed car. What
is it in the design that gives this appearance?
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/cnw128698asw.jp
g

Rob Kirkham


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removed]



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Richard Hendrickson
 

An interesting photo on this site is of CNW 128698, a double sheathed box
car from 1912. What I found odd was the dark lines or shadows spaced
along the side sheathing, making it look somewhat like the panels of a
steel sheathed car. What is it in the design that gives this appearance?
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/cnw128698asw.jpg

Rob Kirkham
Rob, it appears that the vertical wooden posts of the side framing were
exposed, with the sheathing fitted between them and the surface of the
posts standing out slightly farther than the sheathing. The diagonals
would have been concealed inside the sheathing. Note the bolts that
secured the vertical posts to the side sill.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks for the info Richard. A follow up question: I am guessing with that sort of frame arrangement, this car would be lucky to last 15 or 20 years, and would have been no where in site for my 1940's time frame.

Rob Kirkham

Rob, it appears that the vertical wooden posts of the side framing were
exposed, with the sheathing fitted between them and the surface of the
posts standing out slightly farther than the sheathing. The diagonals
would have been concealed inside the sheathing. Note the bolts that
secured the vertical posts to the side sill.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Earl Tuson
 

Richard wrote,

Rob, it appears that the vertical wooden posts of the side framing were
exposed, with the sheathing fitted between them and the surface of the
posts standing out slightly farther than the sheathing.  The diagonals
would have been concealed inside the sheathing.  Note the bolts that
secured the vertical posts to the side sill.
While I cannot offer a viable alternative theory, I must respectfully disagree with Richard's analysis. A structure where the side posts did not bear directly upon the side sills, and that were only connected to the side sill with one bolt, would be a very marginal structural design. Now, if one could point out an example of such construction in a period CBC, I'd eat my words, but the absence of such would only provide corroboration.

I purchased a photo of CM&StP 76992 (from Ted Schempf, dated 1929) that has a very similar pattern, and yet another of CM&StP 31542. The latter, however, is a 30-some-odd' car (not listed in 1919 ORER,) and has only four raised wider strips rather than six.

This car design element merits more study.

Earl Tuson


Richard Hendrickson
 

Earl Tuson writes:

While I cannot offer a viable alternative theory, I must respectfully
disagree with Richard's analysis. A structure where the side posts did
not bear directly upon the side sills, and that were only connected to the
side sill with one bolt, would be a very marginal structural design. Now,
if one could point out an example of such construction in a period CBC,
I'd eat my words, but the absence of such would only provide corroboration.
Earl, I can't disagree with your structural analysis, but I wasn't assuming
that the posts didn't bear directly on the side sills, only that the posts
were notched with the bottom ends overlapping the side sills:

| |
| ____|
| | |
| | |
|_|___|

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Richard Hendrickson
 

Thanks for the info Richard. A follow up question: I am guessing with
that sort of frame arrangement, this car would be lucky to last 15 or 20
years, and would have been no where in site for my 1940's time frame.
The ORERs would answer this question conclusively, but it's safe to
generalize that most cars built before WW I with all wood superstructures
were retired during the depression in the 1930s, rebuilt with steel
framing, or, if still in existence, limited to company service and not used
in interchange.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Greg Martin
 

Richard writes...

"Earl, I can't disagree with your structural analysis, but I wasn't assuming
that the posts didn't bear directly on the side sills, only that the posts
were notched with the bottom ends overlapping the side sills:

| |
| ____|
| | |
‹|=====╞= < Added B,W,W,N
|_|___

Richard H. Hendrickson"

I have to concur with Richard and as I was reading Earl's post the first thing that came to mind was a drawing just as Richard has drawn here... I added the bolt, washer, washer, nut detail... This is commonly called "Dado & Dapping" a slang term still used in mobile home manufacturing. It works in conjunction with a metal "sway brace" which is commonly a rod with a thread on each end to add shear to the "structure".

Greg Martin