CN box car series 471000-477849


Gene Green <lgreen@...>
 

Need some help concerning Canandian National box cars. On January
17, 1949 CN XM 477636 was on the M&StL hauling paper.
I recently acquired one photo each of CN 474917, blt 6-38, and CN
475831, blt 7-38, which are both from the same CN series as 477636,
namely 471000-477849 as listed in Jan. 1942 ORER.
The two cars look more like 1937 AAR box cars than anything else
except for an odd looking end. Would the IMWX/Red Caboose box car be
the correct starting point for a model of 477636?
The photos appear to show metal running boards. Does anyone know if
that is indeed correct and, if so, what kind of running board? Which
hand brake was used? Can't tell from the photos.
Are these odd ends available?
Has there been any magazine articles on modeling these cars?
I can send scans of these two photos to anyone who can advise me.
Gene Green


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Gene Green asked:
"I recently acquired one photo each of CN 474917, blt 6-38, and CN
475831, blt 7-38, which are both from the same CN series as 477636,
namely 471000-477849 as listed in Jan. 1942 ORER.
The two cars look more like 1937 AAR box cars than anything else
except for an odd looking end. Would the IMWX/Red Caboose box car
be the correct starting point for a model of 477636?"

Yes, but be careful with the ORER information for these cars as the
ORER entry for CN 471000-477849 lumps together several lots of cars
with different details, so model from a photo if you can. According
to information from John Nehrich on the RPI website, CN 474917 had
4/5 square corner Dreadnaught ends; CN 475831 has NSC-1 ends
(nicknamed by some modelers "Canadian basketweave"). Both these
cars had flat panel roofs vice instead of the more familiar
rectangular panel roof.


"The photos appear to show metal running boards. Does anyone know
if that is indeed correct and, if so, what kind of running board?"

According to Ed Hawkins' table on Ted Culotta's website,
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html
these cars were originally built with wood running boards.


"Which hand brake was used? Can't tell from the photos."

CN 474917 - Universal
CN 475831 - Ajax


"Are these odd ends available?"

The 10 ft IH NSC-1 ends are available from Sylvan Scale Models (Part
number DP-0036):
http://www.isp.on.ca/Sylvan/detail.htm


"Has there been any magazine articles on modeling these cars?"

See Stafford Swain's "Canadian National's 1937 AAR Design 40-foot
Steel Boxcars" in the August 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman.


Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
"Both these cars had flat panel roofs vice instead of the more
familiar rectangular panel roof."

BTW, Sylvan also carries the roofs:
Flat Panel Murphy Roof, Part No. DP-0047


Ben Hom


Marty McGuirk <mac@...>
 

Gene,

Stafford Swain did an article for one of the mags on the entire family of CN 1937 AAR boxcars for one of the mags (RMC I believe) several years ago -- and he did a much more in depth series (two or three articles if I recall) for CN Lines as well -- in addition he prepared a very well researched piece on paint and lettering schemes that ran in CN Lines.

The ends you're curious about are no doubt one of the "NSC" ends --
these came in several styles. All -- not just the so-called "NSC-1" were made available as cast resin parts to fit the IMX 1937 boxcar by a company called "Canadian Scale Replicas" (I may be a little off on the company name) -- Stafford either made or was involved in making the masters -- those masters and molds are now owned and the parts are marketed by Sylvan Scale Models.

Speaking of the NSC ends, has anyone run across any literature stating what, if any, "brand name" National Steel used for these? "NSC-1" NSC-2" etc. is the shorthand Stafford and Dan Kirlin used to describe them, but I'm not sure the company actually called them by those names -- have never been able to find otherwise.

If you want I'll be glad to check and see exactly which NSC end (and roof) belong on the cars you mentioned. I don't have my copies of CN Lines here at the office, but I'll be going home at lunch.

Marty


pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <lgreen@e...> wrote:

Need some help concerning Canandian National box cars. On January
17, 1949 CN XM 477636 was on the M&StL hauling paper.
I recently acquired one photo each of CN 474917, blt 6-38, and CN
475831, blt 7-38, which are both from the same CN series as 477636,
namely 471000-477849 as listed in Jan. 1942 ORER.
The two cars look more like 1937 AAR box cars than anything else
except for an odd looking end. Would the IMWX/Red Caboose box car
be
the correct starting point for a model of 477636?
The photos appear to show metal running boards. Does anyone know
if
that is indeed correct and, if so, what kind of running board?
Which
hand brake was used? Can't tell from the photos.
Are these odd ends available?
Has there been any magazine articles on modeling these cars?
I can send scans of these two photos to anyone who can advise me.
Gene Green
Gene,
Everything you need to know about how to model these and other CN 40'
boxcars is covered in an article written by Stafford Swain in RMC. I
can't recall exactly when the articles were published but Stafford
seems to think circa 1994. I will confirm that when I get home later
tonight.
As to the ends, they are available now from Sylvan Scale Models,
http://www.isp.on.ca/Sylvan/
As are correct roofs and end walks. You will also want to look into 8
rung ladders with integral stirrups. Des Plaines Hobbies retails
plastic replacemenst which fit the Red Caboose kits very nicely.
I've done a number of conversions of these cars. It's a really fun
project!
Pierre Oliver
http://www.elgincarshops.com/


Ian Cranstone
 

On 18-Nov-04, at 10:19 AM, Gene Green wrote:

Need some help concerning Canadian National box cars. On January
17, 1949 CN XM 477636 was on the M&StL hauling paper.
I recently acquired one photo each of CN 474917, blt 6-38, and CN
475831, blt 7-38, which are both from the same CN series as 477636,
namely 471000-477849 as listed in Jan. 1942 ORER.
Actually these three cars are from different series: 477350-477949 were built by Canadian Car & Foundry in 5-6/39 (477636 was built in June --
and should you be interested, was renumbered to 425604 in August 1974). The two photos you have are from the 474600-475299 series, built by Eastern Car Co. 5-7/38, and from the 475300-475999 series, built by National Steel Car in 5-6/39.

The two cars look more like 1937 AAR box cars than anything else
except for an odd looking end. Would the IMWX/Red Caboose box car be
the correct starting point for a model of 477636?
As I recall, these early CCF cars were fairly easy to model from the IMWX boxcar, with few things needing to be done. See more below under your detail question.

The photos appear to show metal running boards. Does anyone know if
that is indeed correct and, if so, what kind of running board? Which
hand brake was used? Can't tell from the photos.
I've taken the following notes from Stafford Swain's CN LINES study:

The ends applied to these cars were Standard Railway Equipment's Dreadnaught end with square corner posts (a 4-5 end, counting from the top).

The roof is a flat panel "Murphy" roof with car line ribs, which Stafford describes as "not unlike those found in the former Train Miniatures line of cars." These parts have subsequently been cast in resin (see more below).

Running boards were the three-board design. The brake step however was of a steel mesh design.

The doors were an early Youngstown design, with Camel fixtures (like the IMWX model).

The brake wheel is of an Ajax design.

These cars were equipped with the standard Canadian eight-rung ladder (instead of the U.S. seven rung design). Stafford notes that these rungs were spaced at 15.75".

Poling pockets need to be removed from the model.

Top-mounted cut levers were used on these cars.

One unusual detail of this series is that cars 477350-477649 (including your 477636) were originally delivered with National B-1 trucks.

Are these odd ends available?
Various Canadian ends, doors and roofs were released some years ago under the name of the Canadian Model Railway Parts Guild (read Dan Kirlin & Stafford Swain). Subsequently the masters for these parts were transferred to Sylvan Scale Models and many have been re-released under their line -- check their website for availability.

Has there been any magazine articles on modeling these cars?
Yes, Stafford Swain published his first study of CN 40' steel boxcars in the pages of CN LINES vol. 3 no. 4 back in 1991. The article was then updated and published in RMC in (I believe) their August 1993 issue.

As a final note, I have a number of builder's photos of these cars which I could send to anyone interested.

Ian & Katherina Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


Tim O'Connor
 

The two cars look more like 1937 AAR box cars than anything else
except for an odd looking end. Would the IMWX/Red Caboose box car
be the correct starting point for a model of 477636?

Gene, according to my notes, CN 474000-477849 all had S-corner ends
and FLAT riveted roofs. The end styles were

474000-475299 unknown
475300-475999 NSC-1 ends
476625-477349 NSC-2 ends
477350-477849 unknown

So it appears that you have discovered one of my "unknown" ends on
477636. The NSC designations are from modelers -- Dan Kirlin used to
make them and now they are available from Sylvan Scale Models. The
easiest way to model them now is to use the Intermountain 1937 box
car, because it has separate ends and roof.

References RMJ 6/1993, RMC 8/1993. There are also Richard Yaremko
books on Canadian box cars. Volumes 1, 2, and 2A cover CN 40 foot
cars.

I'd appreciate your scans please!

Tim O.


The photos appear to show metal running boards. Does anyone know if
that is indeed correct and, if so, what kind of running board? Which
hand brake was used? Can't tell from the photos.
Are these odd ends available?
Has there been any magazine articles on modeling these cars?
I can send scans of these two photos to anyone who can advise me.
Gene Green


Gene Green <lgreen@...>
 

Thanks very much to Ben Hom, Marty McGuirk, Pierre Oliver, Ian
Cranstone, and Tim O'Connor for a very thorough and really quick
answer to my question about Canadian National box cars. You five
gentlement are an example of this discussion group at its best. All
of your replies have been printed out and are on my work bench for
reference.
Gene Green