Rob & list,

I can HIGHLY recommend Valley Brass and Bronze for all of your brass casting
needs. If you make a plastic master, a mold can be made to make multiple
pieces instead of burning them on a 1 for 1 basis. You can also convert
commercially available plastic parts to brass. There is no shrinkage

David is fast (about a 1 month turnaround) and his casting quality is great.

Valley Brass & Bronze
7070 N. Harrison
Pinedale Ca 93650
559-439-0419

As much as I like David, because he is a one person company, he rarely calls
you back if you leave a message. Just keep trying........

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Production models of the REA Version have arrived

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957

On Monday, December 20, 2004, at 06:38 AM, Bill Lane wrote:

Rob & list,

I can HIGHLY recommend Valley Brass and Bronze for all of your brass casting
needs. If you make a plastic master, a mold can be made to make multiple
pieces instead of burning them on a 1 for 1 basis. You can also convert
commercially available plastic parts to brass. There is no shrinkage

I must correct this one statement. There is always shrinking in brass investment casting. It is 1 1/2%. Melted brass always shrinks I cast brass for 20 years and it always shrinks

David is fast (about a 1 month turnaround) and his casting quality is great.

Valley Brass & Bronze
7070 N. Harrison
Pinedale Ca 93650
559-439-0419

As much as I like David, because he is a one person company, he rarely calls
you back if you leave a message. Just keep trying........

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
It is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day basis.

Larry Jackman sez:

I must correct this one statement. There is always shrinking in brass
investment casting. It is 1 1/2%. Melted brass always shrinks I cast
brass for 20 years and it always shrinks

Larry is right, of course: the liquid brass which fills the mold shrinks on solidification. But if the parts are oversize to start with, as are so many model parts, one might well end up with good dimensions. Probably what was meant by the original post, though, was that one does not have "gross" shrinkage. Many of us have seen the AB brake sets which are copies of copies of copies, and end up at about three-quarter correct size.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:10:52 -0800
From: Anthony Thompson
<thompson@...>
Subject: Re: lost styrene & wax casting

Larry Jackman sez:

I must correct this one statement. There is always

shrinking in brass

investment casting. It is 1 1/2%. Melted brass

always shrinks I cast

brass for 20 years and it always shrinks

I remember talking to Stan Schwedler up in Phoenix
some time ago (he and his brother Sheldon run Coronado
Scale Models) and he explained the process like this.
You built a master 8% oversize. There is 4% shrinkage
per generation and you ran parts in two
generations...one to build up enough parts to build up
a sprue, and a second to cast the sprue. So you build
your masters 8% (two times 4%) oversize to compensate.

=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ



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On Tuesday, December 21, 2004, at 07:54 PM, Bill Daniels wrote:

Larry Jackman sez:

I must correct this one statement. There is always

shrinking in brass

investment casting. It is 1 1/2%. Melted brass

always shrinks I cast

brass for 20 years and it always shrinks

I remember talking to Stan Schwedler up in Phoenix
some time ago (he and his brother Sheldon run Coronado
Scale Models) and he explained the process like this.
You built a master 8% oversize. There is 4% shrinkage
per generation and you ran parts in two
generations...one to build up enough parts to build up
a sprue, and a second to cast the sprue. So you build
your masters 8% (two times 4%) oversize to compensate.

=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

You are going to end up with some over size parts if you use 4%. I learned the casting process from Raoul LaBlank who set up PSC in the casting business and also owned and ran West Earth a jewelry Manufacture company in Seattle Wa. and also picked up pointers from PFM/PIA. All the brass they used shrank 1 1/2%. Maybe Stan was using a different kind of brass so before you start your Patterns find out what your caster is going to use. BTW before I got into doing for myself Kelly Morse was my Pattern Maker.
One more thing some rubber will shrink. Maybe that is where they are getting 4%. But if you use Dow-Corning J type RTV and leave your part in the mold for three days before cutting it open there will be NO shrink in the rubber mold. So I am talking from MY experience and so I suggest you take no ones word on this and go to the caster that is going to do your work and follow his suggestions.
The old saying "To many cooks spoil the broth".
BTW My experience is I started casting in about 1985 and continued until I moved to Florida in the year 2000. I also taught Larry Burt of Smokey Valley Railroad Models how to do Investment casting.
Also I was told you can not cast against Rotation. But I did it all the time and so did my teachers.
If you need any thing more from me contact me direct.

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
I do not care who you are fat man. Get that sleigh and reindeer off my roof.

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:25:33 -0500
From: ljack70117@...
Subject: Re: lost styrene & wax casting
...If you need any thing more from me contact me
direct.

Thank you
Larry Jackman

Thanks Larry. I'm just passing on what Stan told me.
I'm sure you are correct about the degree of
shrinkage. It probably depends on the particular alloy
you are using. And if I were making patterns, I would
most surely consult with the caster about shrinkage.
My point in my post is the fact that most parts are in
fact second-generation, and you have to account for a
double case of shrinkage before you make the pattern.

=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ



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I remember talking to Stan Schwedler up in Phoenix
some time ago (he and his brother Sheldon run Coronado
Scale Models) and he explained the process like this.
You built a master 8% oversize. There is 4% shrinkage
per generation and you ran parts in two
generations...one to build up enough parts to build up
a sprue, and a second to cast the sprue. So you build
your masters 8% (two times 4%) oversize to compensate.

=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

I think I should clarify. Making a pattern 8% oversize is only if
you plan to use the first castings to make multiple parts in a second
mold. For most patterns (like trucks sideframes) we have always made
them 4% oversize. This number was given to us by John Anderson and
Harry Parker, the founders of Cal Scale. All of our brass castings
have been cast for us by their Associated Brass Products, which was
sold to a new owner after their retirement, and is now called Valley
Brass & Bronze. It should be pointed out that all of their waxes are
cast in vulcanized rubber molds. Anything done in silicon rubber
probably needs a different percent.

Stan Schwedler
Coronado Scale Models




Stan

Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:43:02 -0000
From: "coronadoscalemodels"
<coronadoscalemod@...>
Subject: Re: lost styrene & wax casting

Thanks, Stan. Don't know how accurate my memory is (if
I recall that was more than a couple of years ago...)
but I really appreciate and thank you for your
comments...



=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ



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