Erie "Fowler" box car lettering help


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I am (finally!) getting around to lettering my Westerfield kit #4352,
the Erie Fowler box car. I am modeling the mid-30's (to accomodate
billboard reefers, no later than 1937). I am trying to get the
proper lettering by looking at the image on the Westerfield web
site. (The herald, we now know, should be white, not yellow).
The one thing that has me stumped is the info just to the left of the
door. I would expect a "New 10-17" to match the "BLT 10-17" date to
the RIGHT of the door... but no such decal exists on the included
decal sheet. There IS, however, a "New 6-31", but the info on the
web site says they were rebuilt in the LATE 1930's... and I don't
think that even a pretty thorough rebuild would change the "New"
date. And... the last 6' door Fowler types were built in 1923...

While I'm on the subject, when did the various dimensional data
styles come into effect? The one I am using came into effect in 1927
or so, with lines above and below the roadname/road number, and there
were some other changes that I can't think of just now. When was the
next change (was that when the lines were removed?) What was the
style/styles BEFORE 1927, and how long could they remain on a car?
At some point, there was info regarding draft gear/coupler/wheels, I
think it was on the ends, but I've never lettered a car like that.
Were there a few major revisions, or were there little changes all
along?
Dean Payne


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dean Payne wrote:
I am (finally!) getting around to lettering my Westerfield kit #4352,
the Erie Fowler box car. I am modeling the mid-30's . . .
The one thing that has me stumped is the info just to the left of the
door. I would expect a "New 10-17" to match the "BLT 10-17" date to
the RIGHT of the door . . .
Nope. The car would have been reweighed, every 36 months in the early part of its life, and upon the first of those reweighs, the station symbol for the location, and the date, of the reweigh would have replaced the "NEW" stencil.

While I'm on the subject, when did the various dimensional data
styles come into effect? The one I am using came into effect in 1927
or so, with lines above and below the roadname/road number, and there
were some other changes that I can't think of just now. When was the
next change (was that when the lines were removed?)
The ARA made a RECOMMENDATION about 1920 or so to use the stripes, but railroads adopted it when it pleased them to do so, if they did so at all. I don't know about the Erie in this matter. In 1952, the AAR discontinued that recommendation, but that's long after your era. You need Erie-specific information here, or correctly dated photos.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
The car would have been reweighed, every 36 months in the
early part of its life, and upon the first of those reweighs, the
station symbol for the location, and the date, of the reweigh would
have replaced the "NEW" stencil.
Yeah, I KNEW that... I was just playing dumb, I guess. ;~) Does
anybody know the location symbol for Kent, Ohio? Or, lacking that,
any other Erie reweigh station symbols from the period (mid-late
30's) would do. All my Erie cars have "New" dates, not rewiegh
dates! (That's odd! But they're just a few un-improved (as of yet)
Athearn hoppers and a Proto 50' end-door box...)
Dean Payne


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dean Payne asked:
"Does anybody know the location symbol for Kent, Ohio? Or, lacking that,
any other Erie reweigh station symbols from the period (mid-late
30's) would do."

I don't have one for Kent OH, but here's what I do have:

BH = Binghamton NY
DO = Dunmore PA
PJ = Port Jervis NY
MDV = Meadville PA

Other documented reweigh symbols follow, though these need to be identified:

HE
CD
EB
KY
SO
CH
EE

Mele Kalikimaka!


Ben Hom


Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Dec 25, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Dean Payne asked:
"Does anybody know the location symbol for Kent, Ohio? 
"KE"

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Richard Hendrickson
 

Dean Payne asked:
"Does anybody know the location symbol for Kent, Ohio? Or, lacking that,
any other Erie reweigh station symbols from the period (mid-late
30's) would do."
Ben Hom responded:

I don't have one for Kent OH, but here's what I do have:

BH = Binghamton NY
DO = Dunmore PA
PJ = Port Jervis NY
MDV = Meadville PA

Other documented reweigh symbols follow, though these need to be identified:

HE
CD
EB
KY
SO
CH
EE
Here's what I have for Erie reweight station symbols:

BH = Binghampton, NY CD = Cleveland CX = Croxton, NJ DO = Dunmore, PA
EB = East Buffalo HD = Hammond, IN HL = Hornell, NY MDV =
Meadville, PA PJ = Port Jervis, NY. I'd like to know what the other
symbols Ben cites represented.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Dec 25, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

BH = Binghampton, NY
You native West Coasters will never get this one right. The Hamptons are summer home communities on eastern Long Island. Binghamton (no 't') is a small city in "upstate" New York. Upstate is in quotations because anyone who actually lives in upstate NY knows that upstate is really places like Syracuse, Utica, Buffalo, Rochester, etc. People from Manhattan think that upstate begins somewhere around Bronxville.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Ted

SGL
Bingham(no p)ton native.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Culotta [mailto:tculotta@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 4:52 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Erie "Fowler" box car lettering help


On Dec 25, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

BH = Binghampton, NY
You native West Coasters will never get this one right. The
Hamptons are summer home communities on eastern Long Island.
Binghamton (no
't') is a small city in "upstate" New York. Upstate is in
quotations because anyone who actually lives in upstate NY
knows that upstate is really places like Syracuse, Utica,
Buffalo, Rochester, etc. People from Manhattan think that
upstate begins somewhere around Bronxville.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads.
Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------
------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links








Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Culotta [mailto:tculotta@...]

On Dec 25, 2004, at 12:39 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

BH = Binghampton, NY
You native West Coasters will never get this one right.
Something else you won't get right is that "BH" isn't Binghamton, spelled right
or not. There was little to absolutely no work on freight cars done in
Binghamton on the ERIE.

BH = Brier Hill

Which is in Cleveland. And that IS the spelling of Brier, not Briar.

Please correct your notes.

SGL
Binghamton native.


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"Something else you won't get right is that "BH" isn't Binghamton, spelled
right
or not. There was little to absolutely no work on freight cars done in
Binghamton on the ERIE."

Scuyler, thanks for the correction; however, your statement "there was
little to absolutely no work on freight cars done in
Binghamton on the ERIE" perpetuates a common myth about reweigh stencils -
that these represent only locations that have major car shops. While it's
true that cars require reweighing after a trip through the car shop, you
don't need a car shop to reweigh freight cars - only a set of scales. For
example, if you go through this list of PRR track scales, you'll see some
pretty out of the way places that do little to absolutely no work on freight
cars:
http://prr.railfan.net/lists/track_scales_1923.html

For those who are still unclear about this, this date is when the car was
REWEIGHED, not necessarily when it was REPAINTED, REBUILT, or SHOPPED. It
may provide an important clue towards the date when the latter took place,
but can not be taken as gospel as a car may be reweighed without any of
those events taking place.


Ben Hom


DRGW482@...
 

In a message dated 12/24/2004 6:41:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
thompson@... writes:

Nope. The car would have been reweighed, every 36 months in the
early part of its life, and upon the first of those reweighs, the
station symbol for the location, and the date, of the reweigh would
have replaced the "NEW" stencil.


How long was this requirement in effect? I appologize if that has been asked
before. I photographed an ex-B&O 3000cuft covered hopper today still with
the 12-66 new date on the car. I assume the restenciling requirement lasted
beyond the scope of this group?

Martin


DRGW482@...
 

In a message dated 12/26/2004 8:52:43 P.M. Central Standard Time,
sseders@... writes:

Martin,

What was the number of the covered hopper you photographed?

Thanks,
Scott Seders


Scott,
unfortunately, it was already "enhanced" with a CSXT number patch. The rest
of the paint seemed to be unchanged since the day it was delivered... I
believe it used to be a 604xxx
series car... and its _2700_ cuft, not 3000, if I believe the ORER and not
my memory... I can send you an image when the photos come back. I did
photograph one of these cars maybe two years ago in full B&O lettering here in
Corning.

Martin


Scott Seders
 

How long was this requirement in effect? I appologize if that has been
asked
before. I photographed an ex-B&O 3000cuft covered hopper today still with
the 12-66 new date on the car. I assume the restenciling requirement
lasted
beyond the scope of this group?

Martin

Martin,

What was the number of the covered hopper you photographed?

Thanks,
Scott Seders