F&C Pennsy GR gon sits too low? Or couplers?


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I just finished my F&C GR gon, and the couplers sit lowest I have
ever seen. I used archbars to represent my early time period (pre-
WWII), and Walthers archbars at that. The couplers are McHenry
scale couplers in Kadee boxes (I had a few left over...) Is this a
matter of shimming the bolsters, or using different (offset head)
couplers? I might do both... unless you think those trucks sit
especially low... I don't want the car too sit too high above the
wheels, unless that's the way it should be.
This was a poor choice for a first resin kit, I have finished a few
other resin kits since then, including F&C! Their instructions have
improved since this kit, to be fair.
Dean Payne


Brian Carlson
 

Dean, you may want to Check the PRRTHS TKM #4, 11-03 where Elden Gatwood covered modeling these cars in resin, while I couldn't really tell if he shimed his cars (At least one was the Sunshine model though) you make be able to with your car in hand.

Brian J carlson

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...> wrote:

I just finished my F&C GR gon, and the couplers sit lowest I have
ever seen. I used archbars to represent my early time period (pre-
WWII), and Walthers archbars at that. The couplers are McHenry
scale couplers in Kadee boxes (I had a few left over...) Is this a
matter of shimming the bolsters, or using different (offset head)
couplers? I might do both... unless you think those trucks sit
especially low... I don't want the car too sit too high above the
wheels, unless that's the way it should be.
This was a poor choice for a first resin kit, I have finished a few
other resin kits since then, including F&C! Their instructions have
improved since this kit, to be fair.
Dean Payne






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.


David J. Starr <dstarrboston@...>
 

Dean Payne wrote:
I just finished my F&C GR gon, and the couplers sit lowest I have ever seen. I used archbars to represent my early time period (pre-
WWII), and Walthers archbars at that. The couplers are McHenry scale couplers in Kadee boxes (I had a few left over...) Is this a matter of shimming the bolsters, or using different (offset head) couplers? I might do both... unless you think those trucks sit especially low... I don't want the car too sit too high above the wheels, unless that's the way it should be. This was a poor choice for a first resin kit, I have finished a few other resin kits since then, including F&C! Their instructions have improved since this kit, to be fair. Dean Payne
Low flying couplers are common enough. The right way to fix them is first to determine to proper height of the car itself. From protoype plans or photos find the distance from the sill to the rail heads. If the model is low, check the wheelsize and if that is OK, shim the body up to the proper height. Then check coupler height and use an offset coupler head if necessary.
That said, I don't usually go to that much trouble. The legacy Athearn cars all have low couplers and I routinely put a couple of #6 flat washers under the trucks to get a #5 (no offset) Kadee to ride at the proper height.


David Starr


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

Brian,
The Keystone Modeller site had some problems, IIRC, and now only
issues #7 and above are online, so I cannot reference TKM #4. Too
bad, we lost a lot of online info about PRR gons, of which there
were quite a few! I understand, however, that putting those back
will take a lot of work.
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Carlson <prrk41361@y...> wrote:
Dean, you may want to Check the PRRTHS TKM #4, 11-03 where Elden
Gatwood covered modeling these cars in resin, while I couldn't
really tell if he shimed his cars (At least one was the Sunshine
model though) you make be able to with your car in hand.

Brian J carlson


Michael Watnoski
 

Hi Dean,

I have TKM #4 if you need it. Would you like it as a HTML or
PDF file?

Michael


Dean Payne wrote:


Brian,
The Keystone Modeller site had some problems, IIRC, and now only
issues #7 and above are online, so I cannot reference TKM #4. Too
bad, we lost a lot of online info about PRR gons, of which there
were quite a few! I understand, however, that putting those back
will take a lot of work.
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Carlson <prrk41361@y...> wrote:
Dean, you may want to Check the PRRTHS TKM #4, 11-03 where Elden
Gatwood covered modeling these cars in resin, while I couldn't
really tell if he shimed his cars (At least one was the Sunshine
model though) you make be able to with your car in hand.

Brian J carlson


Yahoo! Groups Links




Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I figured out what the problem is with my couplers, while I was
working on a few cars with low trip pins today. I noticed the
couplers drooped on the GR gon... and the coupler box looked
tilted! Yep, pulled the coupler box and saw that the end sill was
deeper than the coupler pad. So, I carved off the little bit of end
sill to make it flush with the coupler pad and reassembled, voila!
The tilt of the coupler exacerbated the problem, causing the coupler
to pull down while pushing the other car's coupler up, causing
separation. Lesson learned! I think the Kadee coupler box has too
much play, or is it because I used a McHenry scale sized coupler? I
might try a shim inside the coupler box, if that would help reduce
the vertical play.
I should have started with a better kit! I seem to remember fixing a
similar problem on another kit that I completed while working on this
one...
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., "Dean Payne" <deanpayne@a...> wrote:

Brian,
The Keystone Modeller site had some problems, IIRC, and now only
issues #7 and above are online, so I cannot reference TKM #4.
BTW, the issue with the GR gon is #3, not #4. It also has the
Westerfield GRA kit (but of course, the included instructions must be
good enough not to need re-doing...)

Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Carlson <prrk41361@y...> wrote:
Dean, you may want to Check the PRRTHS TKM #4, 11-03 where Elden
Gatwood covered modeling these cars in resin, while I couldn't
really tell if he shimed his cars (At least one was the Sunshine
model though) you make be able to with your car in hand.

Brian J carlson


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dean Payne wrote:
"I think the Kadee coupler box has too much play, or is it because I used a
McHenry scale sized coupler? I might try a shim inside the coupler box, if
that would help reduce the vertical play."

As posted earlier, the Kadee #5 box does have a bunch of vertical slop. A
shim inside the coupler box would definitely help. BTW, if you're going to
go with a scale coupler on a resin kit, why use anything with the #5 box?
The smaller coupler head only serves to call attention to the too wide and
shallow #5 box. Use a scale Accumate or a Kadee #78 instead.

The other lesson learned here is that you've got to resolve coupler and
truck issues early in construction before fine detailing and finishing. You
can do this as early as right after assembling the "box". This is
especially true for scale sized couplers, which have far less tolerance for
vertical mismatches. Trying to fix them after you've finished the model
invites ruining details.


Ben Hom


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

Guilty as charged, I have switched to using Kadee #78 couplers on my
most recent resin kits (I started this first, and am finishing it
late). This car will never be an award winner, I got it cheap at a
train show, and learned some lessons from it. I don't think the #78
couplers were available when I started this kit!
My Kadee #208 (red bag) washers don't quite fit over the...
bushing?... inside the coupler box. There's a #210 "coupler washer",
but that might not be the right thing, either, 5/64" ID is even
smaller than 1/8". I'm not sure what those are used for. Do I ream
the red washer, or cut down the "bushing"? I have enough spare #5
boxes I can experiment, I suppose...
Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
As posted earlier, the Kadee #5 box does have a bunch of vertical
slop. A shim inside the coupler box would definitely help. BTW, if
you're going to go with a scale coupler on a resin kit, why use
anything with the #5 box? The smaller coupler head only serves to
call attention to the too wide and shallow #5 box. Use a scale
Accumate or a Kadee #78 instead.

The other lesson learned here is that you've got to resolve coupler
and truck issues early in construction before fine detailing and
finishing. You can do this as early as right after assembling
the "box". This is especially true for scale sized couplers, which
have far less tolerance for vertical mismatches. Trying to fix them
after you've finished the model invites ruining details.


Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Dean Payne wrote:
"My Kadee #208 (red bag) washers don't quite fit over the...
bushing?...inside the coupler box. There's a #210 "coupler washer",
but that might not be the right thing, either, 5/64" ID is even
smaller than 1/8". I'm not sure what those are used for. Do I ream
the red washer, or cut down the "bushing"? I have enough spare #5
boxes I can experiment, I suppose..."

Don't bother with the washers. Just use a piece of .010 styrene
strip positioned across the bottom of the coupler box about halfway
to support the coupler shank. If you hit it with a black Sharpie,
it'll be invisible.


Ben Hom


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Ben Hom provides the following dead-on observation-

...you've got to resolve coupler and truck issues early in construction before >fine detailing and finishing....This is especially true for scale sized >couplers, which have far less tolerance for vertical mismatches. Trying to fix >them after you've finished the model invites ruining details.
This eminently simple advice is the secret to the best of all possible worlds: a very finely detailed and finished model that not only will continue to remain so, but can also be enjoyed safely in routine layout operations.

Denny




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento