PRR ??3353


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I am attempting to identify another freight car that showed up in the CPR waterfront yard in Vancouver, this one Aug 1, 1947. I'm not able to make out the first two digits in the car number on this steel single door box car. The flat riveted ends make me think its an X29 of some sort - though I've reasons to wonder if something different. Why? Some observations: there is what appears to be a new panel left of the door - makes me wonder about a double door car converted to single door. Also, there appears to be some writing that went across two or three panels that has been painted over - its located above the car number. Do these signify some sort of change?

A scan can be found in the STMFPC list files section by the name Pennsy, at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Help with identifying the car, online photo links and modelling clues would be appreciated.

Rob Kirkham


Brian Carlson
 

Rob it looks like and X28a to me, car number appears to be 123353 which matches a number assigned to a X28a. X28a's were rebuilt from 1-1/2 door X28 cars. The X28 was slightly taller than the X29 built originally for automobile trade. Rob's website has some more information http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X28

Brian J. carlson

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
I am attempting to identify another freight car that showed up in the CPR waterfront yard in Vancouver, this one Aug 1, 1947. I'm not able to make out the first two digits in the car number on this steel single door box car. The flat riveted ends make me think its an X29 of some sort - though I've reasons to wonder if something different. Why? Some observations: there is what appears to be a new panel left of the door - makes me wonder about a double door car converted to single door. Also, there appears to be some writing that went across two or three panels that has been painted over - its located above the car number. Do these signify some sort of change?

A scan can be found in the STMFPC list files section by the name Pennsy, at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Help with identifying the car, online photo links and modelling clues would be appreciated.

Rob Kirkham





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Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Jan 9, 2005, at 11:16 PM, Brian Carlson wrote:

Rob it looks like and X28a to me, car number appears to be 123353
which matches a number assigned to a X28a. X28a's were rebuilt from
1-1/2 door X28 cars.  The X28 was slightly taller than the X29 built
originally for automobile trade. Rob's website has some more
information http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X28

Brian J. carlson

I would agree and add that the paint out above the PENNSYLVANIA is
"AUTOMOBILES". It looks like you can see the fresh paint where the
left 1/2 door was removed (note that the last letter or two of
PENNSYLVANIA appears brighter too). Also note that the second grab on
the left has yet to be applied.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rob Kirkham asked:
"I am attempting to identify another freight car that showed up in
the CPR waterfront yard in Vancouver, this one Aug 1, 1947. I'm
not able to make out the first two digits in the car number on this
steel single door box car. The flat riveted ends make me think its
an X29 of some sort - though I've reasons to wonder if something
different. Why? Some observations: there is what appears to be a
new panel left of the door - makes me wonder about a double door car
converted to single door. Also, there appears to be some writing
that went across two or three panels that has been painted over -
its located above the car number. Do these signify some sort of
change?"

Brian Carlson answered:
"Rob, it looks like and X28a to me, car number appears to be 123353
which matches a number assigned to a X28a. X28a's were rebuilt from
1-1/2 door X28 cars. The X28 was slightly taller than the X29 built
originally for automobile trade."

Brian is correct - this car is indeed a Class X28A boxcar, PRR
123353. The giveaway is the abnormally tall height in comparison to
the postwar boxcar behind it - an X29 would be noticeably lower.
Another spotting feature of the X28A is a narrow panel second from
the left of the door (not visible in this photo). As for the smudge
across the two-three panels, I don't know of any Class X28A boxcars
equipped for special service, so this is still a mystery.

Modeling this car in HO is a bit of a challenge. Sunshine 26.14 and
26.15 accurately models the X28A, but they are now out of production
and no longer available from Sunshine.

An alternate kibash can be done using two Red Caboose X29 kits using
Vic Roseman's methods as detailed in the August 2004 issue of
Railmodel Journal. Basically, this involves raising the height of
the car from 8' 7" to 9' 3" by cutting and splicing the two
carbodies approximately along where the patch panel seam would be
located. You'll only need to fill the seams on the ends after
you're done splicing carbodies. (BTW, you'll also have to splice
the doors.) However, this kitbash will not have the narrow panel to
the left of the door.

As for brass, several importers have done the original automobile
car version; however, I'm not sure if any have done the rebuilt cars.

For the CK scheme, the best decal set is the Middle Division HBX-6
if you can find it. Champ HB-303N, their X29 set can be used but
you might have to do some data splicing.

I'll have a prototype article on the X28 in Mainline Modeler later
this year; I plan on doing an article in TKM on modeling these cars
as well (it'll be a while, as I still have to build the models).


Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
I would agree and add that the paint out above the PENNSYLVANIA is
"AUTOMOBILES". It looks like you can see the fresh paint where the
left 1/2 door was removed (note that the last letter or two of
PENNSYLVANIA appears brighter too)."

I disagree for two reasons:

- The paint out is too far to the left. The "AUTOMOBILES" stencil
was centered above the "PENNSYLVANIA" as show in these photos:

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=X28-
E71071.gif&fr=cl
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=BuildersPhotos/X28_58468_A34_BillLane.jpg&fr=clX28

- The original cars were not in the 120012-125000 series, but were
in three different series. If a rebuiding rush job were the case,
the car number should be fresh as well. Besides, the 1947 date of
the photo doesn't match up with the rebuilding dates, which was in
the mid-1930s.


Ben Hom


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks for the comments to date. In case its a dating problem with the photo, I've uploaded another corner of the same overall photo - showing automobiles parked next to the tracks. I'm no expert, but they look more 40's than 30's to me.

the photo may be found under the name Pennsy 2 in the files section at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/

Rob Kirkham,


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
"In case its a dating problem with the photo, I've uploaded another
corner of the same overall photo - showing automobiles parked next
to the tracks. I'm no expert, but they look more 40's than 30's to
me."

It's definitely NOT a 1930s shot - you may or may not be able to
tell from the automobiles, but that boxcar directly behind the PRR
X28A obiously has improved Dradnaught ends.


Ben Hom


Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Jan 10, 2005, at 9:21 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Bruce Smith wrote:
I would agree and add that the paint out above the PENNSYLVANIA is
"AUTOMOBILES".  It looks like you can see the fresh paint where the
left 1/2 door was removed (note that the last letter or two of
PENNSYLVANIA appears brighter too)."

I disagree for two reasons:

- The paint out is too far to the left.  The "AUTOMOBILES" stencil
was centered above the "PENNSYLVANIA" as show in these photos:
True, but <G>... see below

- The original cars were not in the 120012-125000 series, but were
in three different series.  If a rebuiding rush job were the case,
the car number should be fresh as well.  Besides, the 1947 date of
the photo doesn't match up with the rebuilding dates, which was in
the mid-1930s.
I looked closer at the photo in question and now I would say that the
PENNSYLVANIA, car number and car data were all the same intensity and
are painted over a paint out area as well. This paint out area
extends further to the left on the car than the current lettering,
which would have made the lettering above more centered on the road
name. It appears that the road name wasw shifted to the right, once
the 1/2 door was gone, causing it to no longer be centered under the
"AUTOMOBILES" Thus, the paint out, the lettering and the paint on the
panel to the left of the door all appear to be the same age. Given the
weathering of the lettering, this was some time ago, but within a
reweigh (although as Jim Singer pointed out at Cocoa this week, reweigh
intervals appear to have been treated as "suggestions", not rules
<VBG>.)

Thus I still feel that the paint out is consistent with AUTOMOBILES and
conversion of this car from X28 to X28A.

In addition, I note that the car appears to have a door with a center
weld seam, meaning it was made from two of the 1/2 doors, and ... is
that a split KD brake under there still?

All of which calls into question a 1947 date...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
"I looked closer at the photo in question and now I would say that
the PENNSYLVANIA, car number and car data were all the same
intensity and are painted over a paint out area as well. This
paint out area extends further to the left on the car than the
current lettering, which would have made the lettering above more
centered on the road name. It appears that the road name wasw
shifted to the right, once the 1/2 door was gone, causing it to no
longer be centered under the "AUTOMOBILES" Thus, the paint out, the
lettering and the paint on the panel to the left of the door all
appear to be the same age."

I'll buy that. I'll also buy the fact that the car escaped
repainting due to cost-cutting durng the late 1930s and traffic
demands during WWII.


"In addition, I note that the car appears to have a door with a
center weld seam, meaning it was made from two of the 1/2 doors,
and ... is that a split KD brake under there still?"

Sure is. That's a bit of a surprise, as these cars received AB
brakes during the course of the rebuild, though apparantly not all
of them did. Probably more cost-cutting during the Depression.


"All of which calls into question a 1947 date..."

Maybe, but the improved Dreadnaught end on that Canadian boxcar
eliminates the possibility of any prewar date.


Ben Hom