WP 50' SS Automobile car modelling questions


oliver
 

I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.

My questions:

What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?

Did any other railroads have clones?

Any help would be appreciated
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada


Richard Hendrickson
 

From Stefan Lerché:
I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.
What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.
In the builder's photo of WP 12148, the hand brake appears to be an early
Ajax.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?
Probably not. The MDC trucks don't have the lateral motion devices (nor do
any other HO scale trucks) and don't model the prototype trucks' five
spring arrangement with a center spring, but their side configuration is
closer than any other HO scale truck.

Did any other railroads have clones?
No exact duplicates, but cars owned by T&P (with steel doors) and MoPac
(with wood doors) were very similar and can be modeled with MDC kits. See
my article on both the prototypes and the models in the July 1995 issue of
Railmodel Journal.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Stefan:

Let's stir up some controversy here! MDC offers these cars with silver "aluminum" lettering. I strongly believe the color should have been white. There are occasional references in WP papers to "aluminum" lettering before 1949, but I think this was actually white in color and used aluminum particles in the pigment. Such paint was used by the CB&Q on their early F and E diesels and it was WHITE. The same paint was probably applied to WP 501-503 when delivered. The color on these engines is noted as "aluminum", but in the few color photos that survive it was white. Silvery aluminum paint became standard (well, sort-of; "standard" meant very little on the WP) in 1949 with the delivery of the 6601 and 9001 gondolas in 1949 by Greenville. Comments?

As for the single-sheathed boxcars being repainted after 1949 with silvery aluminum paint, I think this unlikely. They were nearing the end of their service lives. Perhaps the cars rebuilt for woodchip service might have been repainted, but I doubt if many regular boxcars were.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

stefanelaine wrote:

I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.

My questions:

What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?

Did any other railroads have clones?

Any help would be appreciated
Stefan Lerch�
Duncan BC Canada






Yahoo! Groups Links







Charlie Vlk
 

The paint used by the CB&Q was "Aluminum Oxide". It is the same paint was
used by the Rock Island, Boston & Maine and others and has caused all sorts
of problems for generations of modelers since.
The paint, in the barrel, is a dark gray (almost cadet gray) (direct
personal observation at Clyde Diesel Shop when obtaining a dipped paint
sample, the darkness may have been due to insufficient stirring (wish I'd
thought of that before I had those dark gray F units custom painted!!!)),
but when sprayed under pressure coats out WHITE. While there are at least
two distinct shades (one pure white and one tending towards gray) on CB&Q F
units due to a change in paint formulation starting with later F3s, then
going back to the original color with the F7s) the color is best represented
on models to be viewed indoors as white with maybe a touch of gray toning it
down from refrigerator white.....
There is, however, no silver color to it....it has no metalic look to it at
all. There were aluminum and silver stenciling pastes used on freight cars
and aluminum, silver, and other metalic paint colors used on other
equipment, but the "Aluminum Oxide" has a white appearance, even when used
as lettering. I have a DuPont number somewhere in my files if anybody needs
it.
Charlie Vlk


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Charlie,

Thanks for your observations. I hadn't considered the differences between paint and stencil paste.

That said, lettering and striping on WP SW-1s (501-503), the S-1s (504-511) and probably the first eight S-2s (551-559) was specified as "aluminum". The visual color clearly is white in all surviving photos. The 1945 VO-1000s and the post-WWII S-2s and S-4s wore white paint. White was chosen by the FRRS for their preserved units repainted into this scheme.

Of course, this only can be definitely documented at this time for the locomotives. Until we have more definite data like freight car paint records, we are just speculating.

Interestingly, Richard Hendrickson found some evidence that the WP's 1947 AAR boxcars (series 20551-20800) wore aluminum lettering. Richard's research led to Branchline producing a special run of these cars in silver lettering. Branchline's production models of these cars have white lettering, which is how they appear in photos (though very grimey). Perhaps Richard would care to comment on this point.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Charlie Vlk wrote:

The paint used by the CB&Q was "Aluminum Oxide". It is the same paint was
used by the Rock Island, Boston & Maine and others and has caused all sorts
of problems for generations of modelers since.
The paint, in the barrel, is a dark gray (almost cadet gray) (direct
personal observation at Clyde Diesel Shop when obtaining a dipped paint
sample, the darkness may have been due to insufficient stirring (wish I'd
thought of that before I had those dark gray F units custom painted!!!)),
but when sprayed under pressure coats out WHITE. While there are at least
two distinct shades (one pure white and one tending towards gray) on CB&Q F
units due to a change in paint formulation starting with later F3s, then
going back to the original color with the F7s) the color is best represented
on models to be viewed indoors as white with maybe a touch of gray toning it
down from refrigerator white.....
There is, however, no silver color to it....it has no metalic look to it at
all. There were aluminum and silver stenciling pastes used on freight cars
and aluminum, silver, and other metalic paint colors used on other
equipment, but the "Aluminum Oxide" has a white appearance, even when used
as lettering. I have a DuPont number somewhere in my files if anybody needs
it.
Charlie Vlk


Richard Hendrickson
 

Gart Groff wrote:

Interestingly, Richard Hendrickson found some evidence that the WP's
1947 AAR boxcars (series 20551-20800) wore aluminum lettering. Richard's
research led to Branchline producing a special run of these cars in
silver lettering. Branchline's production models of these cars have
white lettering, which is how they appear in photos (though very
grimey). Perhaps Richard would care to comment on this point.
No, Garth, you've got it backwards. The 1947 cars were delivered with
white lettering but got aluminum lettering (as did other WP freight cars)
when repainted after ca. 1948. Branchline's original production version of
these cars had aluminum lettering, but I arranged with them to do a special
production run with the as-delivered white lettering as a convention car
for the Pacific Coast Region NMRA. I still have a very small number of
those kits, if there's anyone out there who wants one and didn't get one
from the PCR.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Garth Groff says:


"Let's stir up some controversy here! MDC offers these cars with silver
"aluminum" lettering."

The real issue might be...does MDC [ now Athearn ] actually still make these cars [ including non WP versions ]? I can't find any reference to them anywhere I've looked..

Mike Brock


Richard Hendrickson
 

Garth Groff says:


"Let's stir up some controversy here! MDC offers these cars with silver
"aluminum" lettering."

The real issue might be...does MDC [ now Athearn ] actually still make
these cars [ including non WP versions ]? I can't find any reference to
them anywhere I've looked..

Mike Brock
Athearn now has the tooling for all of the MDC freight cars and is
beginning to have RTR models from that tooling made in China. 36' box cars
are on the way and it seems reasonable to assume that, at some point, the
50' SS auto cars will also be re-introduced. Though not faultless, those
models are much more prototypically accurate and better detailed than any
of the other steam era models in the old MDC line, a fact of which the
people at Athearn are certainly aware.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
The paint used by the CB&Q was "Aluminum Oxide". . .
There is, however, no silver color to it....it has no metalic look to it at
all. There were aluminum and silver stenciling pastes used on freight cars
and aluminum, silver, and other metalic paint colors used on other
equipment, but the "Aluminum Oxide" has a white appearance, even when used
as lettering. I have a DuPont number somewhere in my files if anybody needs.
Pure aluminum oxide is in fact white. It has nothing to do with aluminum metal. I speak of "white" in referring to powder. As a single crystal, it can be transparent; several semi-precious stones are in fact impure aluminum oxide, the impurities being responsible for the color; but when powdered, it is white. It's the same reason quartz in beach sand, or grains of salt, look white; under a microscope you can see the individual grains are transparent, but light scattering among the grains makes it look white in bulk. Using it as a paint pigment would definitely make white paint.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Andy Carlson
 

Mike,
I have a sorce for these cars at attractive close-out
prices. Seems that MDC inventory can't be purged fast
enough after a "Horizon takeover".
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Mike Brock <brockm@brevard.net> wrote:


The real issue might be...does MDC [ now Athearn ]
actually still make these cars [ including non WP
versions ]? I can't find any reference to them
anywhere I've looked..

Mike Brock





[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
Give the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






oliver
 

Did MDC ever issue the cars with full height end doors? If so, Andy,
I'll take some.
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@s...> wrote:
Mike,
I have a sorce for these cars at attractive close-out
prices. Seems that MDC inventory can't be purged fast
enough after a "Horizon takeover".
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Mike Brock <brockm@b...> wrote:


The real issue might be...does MDC [ now Athearn ]
actually still make these cars [ including non WP
versions ]? I can't find any reference to them
anywhere I've looked..

Mike Brock





[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
Give the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






oliver
 

Richard,
Given that I have only undec. cars which paint and decals would you
recommend for the WP scheme in early 1950s?
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
From Stefan Lerché:
I'm building a trio of these cars in the WP#12001-50 series from the
MDC #2150 kits as per Page Porter's article in the July 1995 Mainline
Modeller and following on John Ryczkowski's prototype article in the
March 1995 MM.
What brake wheels did the WP cars have? It appears to be an Equipco in
Page's article but there is no mention of it.
In the builder's photo of WP 12148, the hand brake appears to be an
early
Ajax.

Is there another better source for the Symington trucks with the
Barber lateral motion device than the MDC trucks? John mentions that
the MDC trucks are ok but they seem crude. Do the MDC trucks represent
symington cast friction bearing trucks?
Probably not. The MDC trucks don't have the lateral motion devices
(nor do
any other HO scale trucks) and don't model the prototype trucks' five
spring arrangement with a center spring, but their side configuration is
closer than any other HO scale truck.

Did any other railroads have clones?
No exact duplicates, but cars owned by T&P (with steel doors) and MoPac
(with wood doors) were very similar and can be modeled with MDC
kits. See
my article on both the prototypes and the models in the July 1995
issue of
Railmodel Journal.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Richard and friends,

Thanks for the clarification. As for the WP, the first delivered cars with silver/aluminum lettering were series 6601-6800 Greenville mill gondolas which began arriving in May 1949 (as offered by Proto 2000). There might have been a few repainted cars done with silver/aluminum lettering before this, possibly as a test, but they have escaped notice.

The WP's silver/aluminum lettering era lasted from May 1949 to September 1955, when 50' PS-1s arrived with the all-yellow "Feather River Route" scheme. However, the WP was extremely parsimonious about repainting cars, and a few with silver/aluminum lettering were still around long enough to be scrapped by the UP after the merger.

Since the 20551-20800 boxcars Richard mentions were delivered in 1947, it is doubtful if many were relettered with silver/aluminum paint, unless rebuilt from wreck damage. Their original paint would have been just eight years old at the end of the silver/aluminum paint era.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff



Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Gart Groff wrote:


Interestingly, Richard Hendrickson found some evidence that the WP's
1947 AAR boxcars (series 20551-20800) wore aluminum lettering. Richard's
research led to Branchline producing a special run of these cars in
silver lettering. Branchline's production models of these cars have
white lettering, which is how they appear in photos (though very
grimey). Perhaps Richard would care to comment on this point.
No, Garth, you've got it backwards. The 1947 cars were delivered with
white lettering but got aluminum lettering (as did other WP freight cars)
when repainted after ca. 1948. Branchline's original production version of
these cars had aluminum lettering, but I arranged with them to do a special
production run with the as-delivered white lettering as a convention car
for the Pacific Coast Region NMRA. I still have a very small number of
those kits, if there's anyone out there who wants one and didn't get one
from the PCR.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
 

Hi Mike and list,

I got several road names in my shop for sale for the 50' SS boxes. The list
of MDC cars is getting shorter as they are sold off.

ted

At 03:47 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote:


Garth Groff says:


"Let's stir up some controversy here! MDC offers these cars with silver
"aluminum" lettering."

The real issue might be...does MDC [ now Athearn ] actually still make
these cars [ including non WP versions ]? I can't find any reference to
them anywhere I've looked..

Mike Brock
Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@foxvalley.net
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 3% added).

----------


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004


Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard,
Given that I have only undec. cars which paint and decals would you
recommend for the WP scheme in early 1950s?
Anybody's mineral red/box car red will do; WP wasn't fussy about paint colors.

I'm not aware that anyone offers WP lettering in aluminum, which the WP
began using in 1949. But you can letter the car in white if you model a
somewhat weathered pre-1949 repaint, and in that case Champ's HN 31 set
covers reporting marks and numbers. For WP's sans-serif data lettering,
I'd use a Microscale data set or Walthers XD-637.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Tim O'Connor
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

I'm not aware that anyone offers WP lettering in aluminum
Be aware, be very aware...

Champ HB-169 box car, herald HH-69
Champ HC-258 caboose

Tim O.


Rob Adams
 

Microscale set MC-4266 was done for the WP 50' single sheathed Auto boxes, and has the white lettering, herald, etc. for an as-built car. I have a couple of these, and the set looks pretty good. Some of the stenciling would need to be omitted for later time periods, but I think a guy could make use of this set, especially for a car that will receive some weathering. You'll definitely want to consult a source of photos, like the March, 1995 Mainline Modeler article.

Kind regards, Rob Adams

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Richard,
Given that I have only undec. cars which paint and decals would you
recommend for the WP scheme in early 1950s?
Anybody's mineral red/box car red will do; WP wasn't fussy about paint colors.

I'm not aware that anyone offers WP lettering in aluminum, which the WP
began using in 1949. But you can letter the car in white if you model a
somewhat weathered pre-1949 repaint, and in that case Champ's HN 31 set
covers reporting marks and numbers. For WP's sans-serif data lettering,
I'd use a Microscale data set or Walthers XD-637.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Yahoo! Groups Links*

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Richard,

Champ's HB-169 or Detail Associates 9002 cover the WP silver/aluminum lettering schemes. The Champ set is a bit spartan. The DA set has more goodies, but has only enough of the critical lettering for one car (IIRC) at a higher price. If someone is interested in just one car, go with the DA. If you have a fleet to letter (like me), stock up on both.

I recommend Floquil zinc oxide primer for WP's wooden cars. All the photos of wooden cars in Jim Eager's Color Guide show this color, though I think boxcar red was also used.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Richard,
Given that I have only undec. cars which paint and decals would you
recommend for the WP scheme in early 1950s?
Anybody's mineral red/box car red will do; WP wasn't fussy about paint colors.

I'm not aware that anyone offers WP lettering in aluminum, which the WP
began using in 1949. But you can letter the car in white if you model a
somewhat weathered pre-1949 repaint, and in that case Champ's HN 31 set
covers reporting marks and numbers. For WP's sans-serif data lettering,
I'd use a Microscale data set or Walthers XD-637.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Scott Pitzer
 

Champ's HB-169 or Detail Associates 9002 cover the WP silver/aluminum
lettering schemes.

Garth G. Groff
=========

I recall at least one WP set from DA had a style of reporting marks and numbers that was nothing like the prototype. (Too squished down I think.) But I don't know if it's set 9002.

Scott Pitzer