Wabash to the B&O at Decatur


Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

While looking for something else, which I did not find, I came upon a
list of perishable loads delivered to the B&O from the Wabash at
Decatur, IL, between April 13th and 23rd, 1951 destined to
Indianapolis. Hope it will be of interest to some.

4/13 PFE 2698 Vegts
4/13 PFE 73087 Vegts
4/13 PFE 66779 Vegts
4/14 PFE 62605 Spuds
4/15 PFE 67017 Lettuce
4/15 PFE 98318 Spuds
4/15 PFE 7588 Carrots
4/15 PFE 68032 Lettuce
4/16 PFE 43022 Lettuce
4/16 MDT 23668 Lettuce
4/16 PFE 98538 Lettuce
4/17 PFE 66402 Carrots
4/17 MDT 7178 Onions
4/17 PFE 93742 Onions
4/18 PFE 38633 Can Gds
4/18 PFE 98413 Spuds
4/18 PFE 97992 Lettuce
4/18 PFE 96500 Spuds
4/18 PFE 3680 Lettuce
4/18 PFE 40658 Lettuce
4/19 PFE 61266 Spuds
4/19 PFE 4694 Spuds
4/19 NWX 70052 Can Gds
4/19 SFRD 34071 Lettuce
4/20 PFE 90355 Spuds
4/21 PFE 75355 Lettuce
4/21 PFE 66468 Spuds
4/21 PFE 2988 Lettuce
4/21 PFE 90355 Spuds
4/22 PFE 97736 Spuds
4/22 PFE 76111 Lettuce
4/22 PFE 64158 Spuds
4/22 ART 24467 Lettuce
4/23 PFE 42032 Carrots

Chet French
Dixon, IL


fuchst900
 

Chet are the "French" that owned a model RR Shop in Milton Freewater, Oregon? If you are, greetings from friends in the WW Valley

Chet French <cfrench@...> wrote:
While looking for something else, which I did not find, I came upon a
list of perishable loads delivered to the B&O from the Wabash at
Decatur, IL, between April 13th and 23rd, 1951 destined to
Indianapolis. Hope it will be of interest to some.

4/13 PFE 2698 Vegts
4/13 PFE 73087 Vegts
4/13 PFE 66779 Vegts
4/14 PFE 62605 Spuds
4/15 PFE 67017 Lettuce
4/15 PFE 98318 Spuds
4/15 PFE 7588 Carrots
4/15 PFE 68032 Lettuce
4/16 PFE 43022 Lettuce
4/16 MDT 23668 Lettuce
4/16 PFE 98538 Lettuce
4/17 PFE 66402 Carrots
4/17 MDT 7178 Onions
4/17 PFE 93742 Onions
4/18 PFE 38633 Can Gds
4/18 PFE 98413 Spuds
4/18 PFE 97992 Lettuce
4/18 PFE 96500 Spuds
4/18 PFE 3680 Lettuce
4/18 PFE 40658 Lettuce
4/19 PFE 61266 Spuds
4/19 PFE 4694 Spuds
4/19 NWX 70052 Can Gds
4/19 SFRD 34071 Lettuce
4/20 PFE 90355 Spuds
4/21 PFE 75355 Lettuce
4/21 PFE 66468 Spuds
4/21 PFE 2988 Lettuce
4/21 PFE 90355 Spuds
4/22 PFE 97736 Spuds
4/22 PFE 76111 Lettuce
4/22 PFE 64158 Spuds
4/22 ART 24467 Lettuce
4/23 PFE 42032 Carrots

Chet French
Dixon, IL






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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chet French wrote:
While looking for something else, which I did not find, I came upon a
list of perishable loads delivered to the B&O from the Wabash at
Decatur, IL, between April 13th and 23rd, 1951 destined to
Indianapolis. Hope it will be of interest to some.
That would make a nice train to model! Most of the cars can be done one way or another. The only "ringer" is the canned goods, since the NWX car is obviously in use as an insulated box car and would not have been iced. But it would fit into the train fine.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Michael Aufderheide
 

Chet,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Any idea
how these were routed. UP to Council Bluffs? Were
these cars part of block dropped at Decatur from a
train going through to the east?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide
--- Chet French <cfrench@...> wrote:


While looking for something else, which I did not
find, I came upon a
list of perishable loads delivered to the B&O from
the Wabash at
Decatur, IL, between April 13th and 23rd, 1951
destined to
Indianapolis. Hope it will be of interest to some.

4/13 PFE 2698 Vegts
4/13 PFE 73087 Vegts
4/13 PFE 66779 Vegts
4/14 PFE 62605 Spuds
4/15 PFE 67017 Lettuce
4/15 PFE 98318 Spuds
4/15 PFE 7588 Carrots
4/15 PFE 68032 Lettuce
4/16 PFE 43022 Lettuce
4/16 MDT 23668 Lettuce
4/16 PFE 98538 Lettuce
4/17 PFE 66402 Carrots
4/17 MDT 7178 Onions
4/17 PFE 93742 Onions
4/18 PFE 38633 Can Gds
4/18 PFE 98413 Spuds
4/18 PFE 97992 Lettuce
4/18 PFE 96500 Spuds
4/18 PFE 3680 Lettuce
4/18 PFE 40658 Lettuce
4/19 PFE 61266 Spuds
4/19 PFE 4694 Spuds
4/19 NWX 70052 Can Gds
4/19 SFRD 34071 Lettuce
4/20 PFE 90355 Spuds
4/21 PFE 75355 Lettuce
4/21 PFE 66468 Spuds
4/21 PFE 2988 Lettuce
4/21 PFE 90355 Spuds
4/22 PFE 97736 Spuds
4/22 PFE 76111 Lettuce
4/22 PFE 64158 Spuds
4/22 ART 24467 Lettuce
4/23 PFE 42032 Carrots

Chet French
Dixon, IL







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jaley <jaley@...>
 

Mike,

UP to Omaha / CoB seems like the logical routing for the spuds.
For the other vegetables, I wonder whether they came from northern or
southern California. If the latter, I wonder if they came via SP / CRI&P
to Kansas City, and then to WAB.

Regards,

-Jeff

On Jan 19, 2:53pm, Mike Aufderheide wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wabash to the B&O at Decatur

Chet,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Any idea
how these were routed. UP to Council Bluffs? Were
these cars part of block dropped at Decatur from a
train going through to the east?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide
--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Tim O'Connor
 

There is really no way to tell from the list, where the
cars originated. Wabash could have picked them up either
at Council Bluffs or Kansas City, or even somewhere else.
And of course, since they are listed over several days,
there could be multiple paths.

At Kansas City, cars could have arrived via the UP or
via the Rock Island. Potatoes were grown in very large
quantities in California, so the presence of spuds does
not automatically mean they came from Idaho. A question
that interests me, personally, is whether the list dates
from after the time when the B&O gave up control of the
Chicago & Alton. Before giving up control, B&O probably
would prefer to take delivery from the Alton rather than
from one of the Alton's competitors...

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Any idea
how these were routed. UP to Council Bluffs? Were
these cars part of block dropped at Decatur from a
train going through to the east?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Mike Aufderheide <mononinmonon@y...>
wrote:
Chet,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Any idea
how these were routed. UP to Council Bluffs? Were
these cars part of block dropped at Decatur from a
train going through to the east?
Mike,

The larger amount of perishable traffic was received by the Wabash at
Kansas City from the SP/CRIP and UP. Some cars were received at
Council Bluffs from the UP. All the cars arrived at Decatur on
trains 82, 90, and 98 from Kansas City. Cars received at Council
Bluffs would have been added to these trains at Moberly, Mo. There
was one exception, PFE 61266, Spuds, arrived at Decatur on train 93,
from Chicago. The Wabash forwarded a large number of perishable cars
to the ERIE at Huntington, IN, for movement east.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Tim O'Connor
 

Chet French wrote

The Wabash forwarded a large number of perishable cars
to the ERIE at Huntington, IN, for movement east.
This raises an interesting issue - Since Chicago was notorious
for lengthy delays (2-3 days to get through the interchanges) was
it a common practice among the eastern and midwestern carriers to
exchange perishables at other locations where connections got the
cars moving east sooner, rather than later?

For example, Huntington is shown 24 miles southwest of Fort Wayne.
On that same line in Indiana, the Wabash crossed the Monon, NYC,
NKP, PRR, ERIE, and B&O. I never thought about it before, but would
Wabash have made most perishable connections via these lesser
interchanges rather than via the big "gateway" cities?

Tim O.


Michael Aufderheide
 

Tim,

Another example of this is eastbound traffic coming
north from Indianapolis and Louisville on the Monon.
Rather than send these cars up the mainline to South
Hammond and the connection with the Erie there, the
Monon sent them up the Michigan City branch to Wilders
IN: basically cornfields and interchange tracks. A
similar occurance happened at Linden IN with the NKP.
The Monon through freights were timed to make drops at
Linden to connect with NKP trains. On some
timetables, the north and south bound trains met at
Linden to connect with the same NKP trains.

Mike Aufderheide

--- Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Chet French wrote

The Wabash forwarded a large number of perishable
cars
to the ERIE at Huntington, IN, for movement east.
This raises an interesting issue - Since Chicago was
notorious
for lengthy delays (2-3 days to get through the
interchanges) was
it a common practice among the eastern and
midwestern carriers to
exchange perishables at other locations where
connections got the
cars moving east sooner, rather than later?

For example, Huntington is shown 24 miles southwest
of Fort Wayne.
On that same line in Indiana, the Wabash crossed the
Monon, NYC,
NKP, PRR, ERIE, and B&O. I never thought about it
before, but would
Wabash have made most perishable connections via
these lesser
interchanges rather than via the big "gateway"
cities?

Tim O.





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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

The Copeland Interchange Reports at Northwestern University in Evanston have numerous ones for both the Wabash & Erie including the years 1954-1956. The Reports for the B&O, NKP and MONON are less frequent. For the Copeland list at Northwestern, go to the STMFC's files and open up the Copeland entry which was contributed by Earl Tuson on 2/22/04.

While these Reports have only total loaded cars received or delivered, the volume of loaded cars may provide some idea of the traffic flows. The information is available if one goes looking for it.

Tim Gilbert


Michael Aufderheide
 

I've really got to go there. I work about 4 blocks
away!

Mike
--- Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

The Copeland Interchange Reports at Northwestern
University in Evanston
have numerous ones for both the Wabash & Erie
including the years
1954-1956. The Reports for the B&O, NKP and MONON
are less frequent. For
the Copeland list at Northwestern, go to the STMFC's
files and open up
the Copeland entry which was contributed by Earl
Tuson on 2/22/04.

While these Reports have only total loaded cars
received or delivered,
the volume of loaded cars may provide some idea of
the traffic flows.
The information is available if one goes looking for
it.

Tim Gilbert




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Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:
Chet French wrote

The Wabash forwarded a large number of perishable cars
to the ERIE at Huntington, IN, for movement east.
This raises an interesting issue - Since Chicago was notorious
for lengthy delays (2-3 days to get through the interchanges) was
it a common practice among the eastern and midwestern carriers to
exchange perishables at other locations where connections got the
cars moving east sooner, rather than later?

For example, Huntington is shown 24 miles southwest of Fort Wayne.
On that same line in Indiana, the Wabash crossed the Monon, NYC,
NKP, PRR, ERIE, and B&O. I never thought about it before, but would
Wabash have made most perishable connections via these lesser
interchanges rather than via the big "gateway" cities?

Tim,

Without digging through the boxes in the basement, I do know that the
Wabash delivered perishable cars to the PRR at Logansport for
movement east. Perhaps some also went to the PRR at Ft Wayne. The
Wabash crossed the B&O main line at St. Joe, Indiana, but I do not
have any info regarding interchange at that point.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


CBarkan@...
 

The B&O sold the Alton to the recently created GM&O (1941) in 1947. By the
way, the last legacy of the B&O ownership of the Alton has disappeared in the
last year or so at least on the section north of Bloomington, IL, the
color-position light signals. Perhaps there are still some left farther south. I
always wondered what the SP and subsequent UP signal engineers must have thought
when they encountered these things.

Chris

In a message dated 1/19/05 9:56:33 PM, timboconnor@... writes:

<< A question
that interests me, personally, is whether the list dates
from after the time when the B&O gave up control of the
Chicago & Alton. Before giving up control, B&O probably
would prefer to take delivery from the Alton rather than
from one of the Alton's competitors... >>


Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Chet French" <cfrench@g...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Mike Aufderheide <mononinmonon@y...>
wrote:
Chet,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Any idea
how these were routed. UP to Council Bluffs? Were
these cars part of block dropped at Decatur from a
train going through to the east?
Mike,

The larger amount of perishable traffic was received by the Wabash
at
Kansas City from the SP/CRIP and UP. Some cars were received at
Council Bluffs from the UP. All the cars arrived at Decatur on
trains 82, 90, and 98 from Kansas City. Cars received at Council
Bluffs would have been added to these trains at Moberly, Mo. There
was one exception, PFE 61266, Spuds, arrived at Decatur on train
93,
from Chicago. The Wabash forwarded a large number of perishable
cars
to the ERIE at Huntington, IN, for movement east.
MORE

In looking at a few morning reports, it appears that train 1-90 was
the main perishable handling train out of Kansas City on the Wabash.
This train almost always handled loads only; livestock, perishable,
and Red Ball loads, (Wabash's term for priority or hot loading other
than perishable). The following shows this train for 10 days in
1950. Note that on the 16th and 20th, the train handles one car of
livestock. Power on the trains was F7 A-B-A sets numbered in the
1100 series, and FA-1 A-B-A sets numbered in the 1200's. Totals
included the perishable followed by the Red Ball loads.

11/11/50 1105 68-9
11/12/50 1202 66-12-1 (one mty?)
11/13/50 1101 74-4
11/14/50 1203 72-5
11/15/50 1202 81-0
11/16/50 1100 1-74-4
11/17/50 1103 62-18
11/18/50 1100 76-4
11/19/50 1102 1-71-4

During these same 10 days, the main perishable handling train out of
St Louis for points north and east was No. 98. The train handled
between 15 and 20 perishable each day with the exception of one day
when there were 27 cars. This train was still getting 2900 series 4-
8-4's.

The subject of the file with the list of 33 cars was in regard to the
Wabash delivering the cars to the B&O in time for them to be
forwarded in a B&O train scheduled to departed Decatur for the east
at 11:30am each day. Only three of the cars missed the connection.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Charlie Vlk
 

I wouldn't put too much stock in the Chicago bottleneck theory as far as
perishables....
The CB&Q had strict shedules to drop eastbound reefers and livestock at the
IHB interchange at Congress Park. I believe the IHB forwarded the cars to
the NYC, NKP, etc.. with equal haste... an extra 2-3 days for produce, meat
(live or hanging) would not be tolerated by either the railroads or the
shippers...too much money at stake.
Charlie Vlk


Shawn Beckert
 

Boy do I wish I could find this kind of day-to-day information
on the Cotton Belt, or even the SP-TNO. You must have done some
serious dumpster diving back in those days, Chet!

Shawn Beckert, very envious...

-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-2554753-37716-1106254647-shawn.beckert=disney.com@....
yahoo.com
[mailto:sentto-2554753-37716-1106254647-shawn.beckert=disney.com@returns
.groups.yahoo.com]On Behalf Of Chet French
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 12:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wabash to the B&O at Decatur




--- In STMFC@..., "Chet French" <cfrench@g...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Mike Aufderheide <mononinmonon@y...>
wrote:
Chet,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. Any idea
how these were routed. UP to Council Bluffs? Were
these cars part of block dropped at Decatur from a
train going through to the east?
Mike,

The larger amount of perishable traffic was received by the Wabash
at
Kansas City from the SP/CRIP and UP. Some cars were received at
Council Bluffs from the UP. All the cars arrived at Decatur on
trains 82, 90, and 98 from Kansas City. Cars received at Council
Bluffs would have been added to these trains at Moberly, Mo. There
was one exception, PFE 61266, Spuds, arrived at Decatur on train
93,
from Chicago. The Wabash forwarded a large number of perishable
cars
to the ERIE at Huntington, IN, for movement east.
MORE

In looking at a few morning reports, it appears that train 1-90 was
the main perishable handling train out of Kansas City on the Wabash.
This train almost always handled loads only; livestock, perishable,
and Red Ball loads, (Wabash's term for priority or hot loading other
than perishable). The following shows this train for 10 days in
1950. Note that on the 16th and 20th, the train handles one car of
livestock. Power on the trains was F7 A-B-A sets numbered in the
1100 series, and FA-1 A-B-A sets numbered in the 1200's. Totals
included the perishable followed by the Red Ball loads.

11/11/50 1105 68-9
11/12/50 1202 66-12-1 (one mty?)
11/13/50 1101 74-4
11/14/50 1203 72-5
11/15/50 1202 81-0
11/16/50 1100 1-74-4
11/17/50 1103 62-18
11/18/50 1100 76-4
11/19/50 1102 1-71-4

During these same 10 days, the main perishable handling train out of
St Louis for points north and east was No. 98. The train handled
between 15 and 20 perishable each day with the exception of one day
when there were 27 cars. This train was still getting 2900 series 4-
8-4's.

The subject of the file with the list of 33 cars was in regard to the
Wabash delivering the cars to the B&O in time for them to be
forwarded in a B&O train scheduled to departed Decatur for the east
at 11:30am each day. Only three of the cars missed the connection.

Chet French
Dixon, IL







Yahoo! Groups Links


Richard Hendrickson
 

I wouldn't put too much stock in the Chicago bottleneck theory as far as
perishables....
The CB&Q had strict shedules to drop eastbound reefers and livestock at the
IHB interchange at Congress Park. I believe the IHB forwarded the cars to
the NYC, NKP, etc.. with equal haste... an extra 2-3 days for produce, meat
(live or hanging) would not be tolerated by either the railroads or the
shippers...too much money at stake.
Charlie Vlk
Charlie is quite right. Low priority freight such as coal and other bulk
minerals might have taken two or three days to thread its way through the
Chicago maze, but perishables were handled expeditiously. For example,
eastbound SFRD reefers arriving at the Santa Fe's Corwith Yard in South
Chicago were switched immediately to the Indiana Harbor Belt, which would
ice the cars if necessary at Blue Island and then forward them to the Erie
at Hammond, IN for 10 p.m. departure to the New York City area and New
England, to the Grand Trunk Western for southern Canadian destinations, or
to the B&O for mid-Atlantic destinations. In all cases, the cars spent
less than 24 hours in the Chicago area - often much less. The Santa Fe,
like PFE, avoided handing off perishable traffic to the Pennsy, which had
the nation's worst record for timely movement of perishables, or the New
York Central, which moved its own perishable traffic fairly quickly but
tended to be much less efficient in handling traffic that originated off
line.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Randy Williamson <pennsy@...>
 

At 03:59 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote:
The Santa Fe,
like PFE, avoided handing off perishable traffic to the Pennsy, which had
the nation's worst record for timely movement of perishables,

In 1954, the Pennsy received 7,500 cars of perishables from the Chicago
Produce Terminal. Approximately 60,000 carloads of perishable traffic
eastbound were handled through the Dolton interchange with the IHB.

Randy


Richard Hendrickson
 

Ranyd Williamson writes:

At 03:59 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote:
The Santa Fe,
like PFE, avoided handing off perishable traffic to the Pennsy, which had
the nation's worst record for timely movement of perishables,

In 1954, the Pennsy received 7,500 cars of perishables from the Chicago
Produce Terminal. Approximately 60,000 carloads of perishable traffic
eastbound were handled through the Dolton interchange with the IHB.
And your point is?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@c...> wrote:
I wouldn't put too much stock in the Chicago bottleneck theory as
far as
perishables....
The CB&Q had strict shedules to drop eastbound reefers and
livestock at the
IHB interchange at Congress Park. I believe the IHB forwarded the
cars to
the NYC, NKP, etc.. with equal haste... an extra 2-3 days for
produce, meat
(live or hanging) would not be tolerated by either the railroads or
the
shippers...too much money at stake.

This was also the case with the IC, Charlie. Meat and perishable
cars interchanged to the IHB at Broadview before the 1:30pm cut-off
time was moved to Blue Island and forwarded in the NYC evening
departures from that yard. I believe the IHB also delivered these
cars to the other eastern connections. Often the IC would shove an
entire 50 to 60 car meat train to the IHB, and depart Broadview with
just the caboose.

Chet French
Dixon, IL