I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and
the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell. The frames and appliances are
worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD
40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted. Also is
there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes?

Bill McCoy
Jax

Bill, the hands down best, inexpensive, 40 and 50 foot, noncushion
replacement underframes for postwar AAR box cars are made by Accurail.
If you are willing to chop out the floor of the Front Range cars, or
simply toss out the C&BT underframes, then the Accurail underframe
is almost a drop-in. Now, these underframes are technically only
correct for particular door widths, but if you can live with that
problem they're great. The Front Range body tooling was very good IMO.
Red Caboose redid the 40 foot cars and they're even better, but they
used the underframes from their 1937 cars! Branchline and Intermountain
make good postwar underframes too, but its not a complete floor + uf
like the Accurail.

The riveted 50 foot cars are great for... Southern Pacific! And only
a few others. The welded cars can be applied to a number of owners,
especially since narrowing the door opening or modeling a wider door
is pretty easy. I don't know about the 40 foot fishbelly off the top
of my head.

Now that I think of it, Red Caboose did at least two different styles
of tab sill for the 40 foot cars with 8 foot doors, something no one
else has done that I know of.

Tim

Bill McCoy asked:
"I'm cleaning house before the Jax Train show. Are there any
prototypes to be made from Front range 40' and 50' box car shells and
the CB&T 1944 AAR 40' box car shell? The frames and appliances are
worthless but the bodies look pretty well done. I have FR DD and SD
40's with fishbelly sidesills and 50' DDs welded and riveted."

The Front Range and C&BT Car Shops single door 40 ft postwar AAR boxcars
have been largely superceded by models currently available from Branchline,
Intermountain, and Red Caboose. If you have any C&BT 12-panel side cars
with 7 ft or 8 ft doors, I recommend hanging on to them as there is no other
kit available. As for the Front Range cars, I wasn't aware that they
offered the 40 ft single door cars with full sidesills. You might want to
hang on to them if you plan on doing any 1960s 40 ft cars, as the full
sidesill will save you some work depending on the prototype.

As Tim noted, you could replace the underframes, going as far as cutting out
the ones on the Front Range kit, but I caution you against the law of
diminishing returns. Why cut out a Front Range floor if the same prototype
can be modeled from a Branchline kit? I don't know about you, but my time's
well worth the delta between the selling price of that Front Range kit and
the price of a new Branchline kit. If your cars are in resalable condition,
I'd get rid of all but the ones I mentioned above.

BTW, Ed Hawkins wrote up how to correct underframes for 8 ft door cars:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/articles/btuframemain.html


"Also is there any prototype for the Central Valley underframes?"

The CV underframes are from their NP stock car kit. They were marketed as
replacements for Athearn, et. al. house car underframes; however, the
kingpin to striker measurement is 5 ft, which is incorrect for post-1932 AAR
boxcars. I purchased a bunch a long time ago to modify
Walthers/Train-Miniature X29s, but they don't really work for that as the
crossmember locations are different. They might work for other 1920s
prototype house cars after narrowing - double check from your prototype
information first though.


Ben Hom

Ben Hom asks

Why cut out a Front Range floor if the same prototype can be
modeled from a Branchline kit?

It can only be modeled in the case of the 40 foot cars with 6
and 8 foot doors. Other Front Range models are different than
the Branchlines. The riveted 50 foot cars are quite different:
12 panel vs. BL's 16 panel. BL sliding door cars are useless
for the SP, for example. Front Range also made a centered double
door car with welded sides -- used by a few roads including SP.

Tim O.

Aren't the CV underframes from their NP stock car kit?

regards,

Andy Miller

If this is a 12 panel instead of a 16 panel riveted car, is the
Accurail 50 foot riveted car useable as a Southern Pacific car? Just
asking because I have, guess what?, a couple of the Accurail 50 foot
cars, and don't know what to do with them. Have never seen a photo
which matches that panel layout.

If so, what series is the Southern Pacific car?

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald



--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

The riveted 50 foot cars are great for... Southern Pacific! And

only

a few others.

Phil, the ACCURAIL 50 foot box car tooling -IS- from the
FRONT RANGE box cars. They were transformed into one-piece
bodies with separate underframes (instead of separate roofs).

Accurail did at least one accurate SP 50 ft, double door car
with unusual gothic lettering. They used a computer font but
it's passably close and no one makes decals for it anyway.

Tim O.

Phil Buchwald writes:
If this is a 12 panel instead of a 16 panel riveted car, is the
Accurail 50 foot riveted car useable as a Southern Pacific car? Just
asking because I have, guess what?, a couple of the Accurail 50 foot
cars, and don't know what to do with them. Have never seen a photo
which matches that panel layout.
If so, what series is the Southern Pacific car?

The Accurail 50-ft. single-door car has a slight fishbelly side sill, which would have to be removed for an SP car, such as B-50-34, which had a straight side sill. It also has a very narrow panel (or at least rivet row) next to the door, which would have to be removed or ignored for use with SP lettering. I don't have such a model, so can't check dimensions relative to the SP cars. The Accurail model does have single rivet rows, thus ruling out some other 50-ft. SD classes which had double rivet rows.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

IIRC Bob Smaus used the Front Range 50' DD welded car for the 1960s
era ACF built SP B-70-14 series of lumber cars with yellow
door(220000-220499). There was a article in the May 1989 RMC.

Not sure how accurate these kitbashes are.

According to the article, these were apparently patterned after
NP#6000-7899 series cars, so they may be a potential project as well
(someone more knowledgable may want to chime in).

Smaus also used the 40' riveted, deep sill FR car with a new 10' door
for the lumber car rebuilds with the famous yellow diagonal stripe
(apparently various number series from 172000 to 189999.

Tony Thompson probably could provide better information.
Hope that helps some...
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada

Thanks for the info.
I think that scraping off a row or two of rivets wouldn't be
a big deal. BTW, the car sides have joggles at each panel line
instead of simply overlapping flat sheets.

Of course I have more questions... ;>

Are the ends on the prototype car the "early" or "late" IDE?
The Accurail car has the late ends, but I'd have to clean off the
molded-on end ladders anyway so it would be easier to just glue on
some replacement Branchline ends.
Is there a good photo or book avialable which shows this
series or car? And what is the number series?
I've got an old issue of either MR'ING or RMJ with a long
distance shot of two differnt series of SP cars, but they don't give
much detail, only that at least one of the series is a double door
car.

Thanks again!

Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

Phil Buchwald writes:
If this is a 12 panel instead of a 16 panel riveted car, is the
Accurail 50 foot riveted car useable as a Southern Pacific car?

Just

asking because I have, guess what?, a couple of the Accurail 50

foot

cars, and don't know what to do with them. Have never seen a

photo

which matches that panel layout.
If so, what series is the Southern Pacific car?

The Accurail 50-ft. single-door car has a slight fishbelly

side

sill, which would have to be removed for an SP car, such as B-50-

34,

which had a straight side sill. It also has a very narrow panel

(or at

least rivet row) next to the door, which would have to be removed

or

ignored for use with SP lettering. I don't have such a model, so

can't

check dimensions relative to the SP cars. The Accurail model does

have

single rivet rows, thus ruling out some other 50-ft. SD classes

which

had double rivet rows.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Phil Buchwald asked:
Are the ends on the prototype car the "early" or "late" IDE?
The Accurail car has the late ends, but I'd have to clean off the
molded-on end ladders anyway so it would be easier to just glue on
some replacement Branchline ends.
Is there a good photo or book avialable which shows this
series or car? And what is the number series?

Are we talking single or double door? pre- or post-1956? The B-50-34 I mentioned earlier does NOT have the late ends.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Stefan Lerché wrote

According to the article, these were apparently patterned after
NP#6000-7899 series cars, so they may be a potential project as well
(someone more knowledgable may want to chime in).

That can't be right. The NP cars were riveted and had ZU eave roofs
and straight side sills. The model is welded, has drop sills and a
flush roof.

Smaus also used the 40' riveted, deep sill FR car with a new 10' door
for the lumber car rebuilds with the famous yellow diagonal stripe
(apparently various number series from 172000 to 189999.

That definitely was wrong, since the SP rebuilds were made from 10'
interior height cars, and the model is a 10'6".

Tim O.

Ben and Tim, Thanks for your comments. Looking at the cars I have
they are as follows:

40' single 8' door with drop side sills with 10 panel riveted sides.
Lettered C&O 19209. This car appears to be a model of the C&O 19209
shown on page 24 RP-CYC vol 4 including the ends.

40' single 8' door with drop side sills with 10 panel welded sides
with the same ends (4-3-1?)

40' double 6' doors with drop side sill and riveted sides and the
same end as the C&O car. I got this car from the NKP HS and is NKP
22101. I suspect it too is a Front Range.

40' single 6' door with tabbed side sill and welded 10 panel sides
with the same ends (4-3-1?)

40' single 6' door with tabbed side sills and riveted 10 panel sides
with the same ends.

50' double 8' doors, 13 panel welded sides, the same ends as on the
40' cars.

50' double 8' doors, 13 panel riveted sides, the same ends as on the
40' cars.

All of these cars appear to 10' 6" IH. and have diagonal panel roofs
with the exception of the CB&T car.

I have a couple of the Red Caboose variants and it is apparently an
improved Front Range 40 footer. I wonder if they got the fifties
too. What would be the correct under frame for these cars?

The CB&T 1944 AAR 40' has a 4-4 improved dreadnaught end and 10
panel riveted sides with a rectangular panel roof.


Bill McCoy
Jax




--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

Phil, the ACCURAIL 50 foot box car tooling -IS- from the
FRONT RANGE box cars. They were transformed into one-piece
bodies with separate underframes (instead of separate roofs).

Accurail did at least one accurate SP 50 ft, double door car
with unusual gothic lettering. They used a computer font but
it's passably close and no one makes decals for it anyway.

Tim O.

If this is a 12 panel instead of a 16 panel riveted car, is the
Accurail 50 foot riveted car useable as a Southern Pacific car?

Just

asking because I have, guess what?, a couple of the Accurail 50

foot

cars, and don't know what to do with them. Have never seen a

photo

which matches that panel layout.

If so, what series is the Southern Pacific car?

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald

The C&O car is a good one to do from this kit, but they had 9' doors. I think I narrowed an Athearn "Railbox" door for mine, but you can probably do better now in the doors department.
And Front Range didn't do all that well with their C&O box car lettering jobs. This model, in brown, had the C and the O larger than the &, as in the later Chessie System style.
Scott Pitzer
=======

Tim,
Like I said...I'm not sure about the authenticity of these kitbashes.
There is no mention of 10' vs 10'6" on the 40'ers. He used the FR
#5100 for the 50' car and the FR#4070 for the 40' car.

I guess it's another case of "good enough to publish".
regards
Stefan

The ends on the FR/Accurail cars are R+3/4, and is similar to the
ends on the SP B-50-35, -36 and -38 which were all quite similar
looking cars with the same number of side panels, same roof and
same ends. The Accurail car was numbered as a B-50-35 #210836 and
I have a 1955 photo of the prototype car lettered the same way.

Tim O.

This is a break from the thread that has been going on for a couple days.

I think the CB&T kits are great -- I've harvested about 30 stainless steel
weights from them. They're flat and have a good finish, so they're
excellent as a way to hold a Branchline or similar roofwalk down while the
glue dries.

I've also held on to a few doors that might be useful someday, even if I
stack them up against the wall of the carshop that I haven't built yet.

Ron Merrick

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I take it this is the welded 50' DD you are talking about so I'll
earmark my welded FR 50' car to be an SP. Is it a B50-35 or 36 or
37? What underframe would it have?

This leaves finding prototypes for the other cars.

Thanks.


Bill McCoy
Jax


d--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...>
wrote:

The ends on the FR/Accurail cars are R+3/4, and is similar to the
ends on the SP B-50-35, -36 and -38 which were all quite similar
looking cars with the same number of side panels, same roof and
same ends. The Accurail car was numbered as a B-50-35 #210836 and
I have a 1955 photo of the prototype car lettered the same way.

Tim O.

Are the ends on the prototype car the "early" or "late"

IDE?

The Accurail car has the late ends, but I'd have to clean off

the

molded-on end ladders anyway so it would be easier to just glue

on

some replacement Branchline ends.
Is there a good photo or book avialable which shows this
series or car? And what is the number series?

Are we talking single or double door? pre- or post-1956?

The

B-50-34 I mentioned earlier does NOT have the late ends.

Tony Thompson

I'd like build a single door car, only so I don't have to hunt
down another pair of doors. Is that what the B-50-34 was? The photo
in the magazine (my only source) shows a double door car, but not
close enough to see the panel layout on the side. The ends on the
Accurail car are the late IDE style. I'd like to build a car with
the early IDE's simply because I have some Branchline ends in a bag
on the bench, and that would save me from carving the ladders out of
all of those dents!
To that end, when was the B-50-34 series constructed, and what
was the number series? I'd like to get a photo (Bob's or a Sunshine
book?) to see what the car looks like... things like: a good look at
the straight sills that you mentioned.
As for the year, I was trying to stick with '50 through '55,
but now have to go out to '56: a very bad person insisted that I
needed a Kadee PS2 in Rutland colors. :)

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald




--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

Are we talking single or double door? pre- or post-1956?

The

B-50-34 I mentioned earlier does NOT have the late ends.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history