There is no more reason to distrust Ed Hawkin's drift panel
than there is reason to trust photographic evidence, which is
subject to the same kinds of variance and degradation over
time. But I do know for a fact that the reflectivity of a
paint, plus ambient light, can strongly affect its perceived
"color". We just had an incredibly lengthy discussion of Pullman
Green over on the PCL. "Shades of gray" is a popular expression
for a reason -- there are just so many of them!

If you look at the photo on the Kadee web site, it looks much
lighter than the car looks in a dimly lighted room. I would not
be at all surprised if both Ed and Greg are correct, i.e. the color
is the correct color, AND the color makes the model look too dark
under most lighting conditions we experience indoors.

I refuse to believe that Greg Martin is incapable of using his
skills to shift the paint to a lighter shade. I have done this on
many cars. Indeed, it is necessary on most predecorated models
which have unfaded paint and must be lightened to give the
appearance of aging. I find that lightening grays is one of
the easiest things to do -- making black or blue lighter is
much more challenging.

Tim O.

P.S. The worst ever paint matching might be the Kato ACF covered
hoppers. Their Cotton Belt models were GREEN, while the prototype
used a light gray color!

At 06:47 PM 2/14/2005, you wrote:

On Monday, February 14, 2005, at 08:23 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

P.S. The worst ever paint matching might be the Kato ACF covered
hoppers. Their Cotton Belt models were GREEN, while the prototype
used a light gray color!

Tim,
Not true. This model very closely matched an AC&F paint sample that I
sent to Kato at the time.

I have to agree - I saw some of the SSW cars that were almost brand new (and others from other lines - the grey had a most definite green cast to it. And, if you look at cement as it cures you see that same color. I'll also say I saw some of the "green" ACF covered hoppers some months later and they looked awfully (more) grey. Whether this was due to moisture in the original cars curing, or whether it was a case of material handling weathering I don't know. But I can vouch for "green" SSW and other covered hoopers.

Funny - as I write this, I am wearing a grey fleece top. The lights in this room have "sunlight" florescent bulbs. When I look at this thing in the right light I could swear it's that exact shade of "green" that is to say, grey, that I saw on those cars. Put it in full light, and it sure looks grey.

Bob Webber wrote

Funny - as I write this, I am wearing a grey fleece top. The lights in
this room have "sunlight" florescent bulbs. When I look at this thing in
the right light I could swear it's that exact shade of "green" that is to
say, grey, that I saw on those cars. Put it in full light, and it sure
looks grey.

Hey Bob, had your eyes checked for color acuity lately? ;-)

Tim O

On Monday, February 14, 2005, at 08:23 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

P.S. The worst ever paint matching might be the Kato ACF covered
hoppers. Their Cotton Belt models were GREEN, while the prototype
used a light gray color!

Tim,
Not true. This model very closely matched an AC&F paint sample that I
sent to Kato at the time. There were several roads, including L&N, that
used a olive-green shade of gray. I agree it looks somewhat unrealistic
on a model, but the paint sample is what it is. I will add that not all
SSW covered hoppers used the same color of paint. Some were a much
lighter shade of gray without the green tones. In looking at four
different ACF paint samples produced for Mopac covered hoppers over a
relatively short span of about 5-6 years, the paint samples are
completely different with some being fairly light, others being quite
dark, one matching "Floquil Concrete" and another one that looks more
like beige. Crazy.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Funny you should ask. Yes. 3 months ago.

Seriously, if you watch cement after it is poured and is wet, it is a geyish green color. And as it continues to cure, the green cast disappears, but it is there to start.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

I refuse to believe that Greg Martin is incapable of using his
skills to shift the paint to a lighter shade. I have done this on
many cars. Indeed, it is necessary on most predecorated models
which have unfaded paint and must be lightened to give the
appearance of aging. I find that lightening grays is one of
the easiest things to do -- making black or blue lighter is
much more challenging.

Tim O.

What I did with my KD PRR H34 PS-2, for those that were at the
convention in Cincy who may of saw it, but if you did not, it is now
nice and faded light grey. I have had to do similar things to
similar cars in similar grey colors but in an era after this list.

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN

Funny you should ask. Yes. 3 months ago.

Seriously, if you watch cement after it is poured and is wet, it is a
geyish green color. And as it continues to cure, the green cast
disappears, but it is there to start.

Bob, cement is not poured. Concrete is poured. But anyway....

I know that blue & yellow make green, and there is a little of both
in most grays. But the Kato cars were -GREEN-. No one except a very
seriously colorblind person would say they were anything else. They
are green under all the usual light conditions -- indoor, cool, hot,
outdoors, flourescent, you name it. This color cannot be mistaken
for a "greenish gray". Think "Weyerhaeuser" green.

Tim O.

Ed Hawkins wrote:

Not true. This model very closely matched an AC&F paint sample that I
sent to Kato at the time. There were several roads, including L&N, that
used a olive-green shade of gray. I agree it looks somewhat unrealistic
on a model, but the paint sample is what it is.

AFAIK Ed is entirely right about this batch of SSW cars. Tim is just broadcasting his opinion, to hell with evidence (especially irritating things like paint chips), as does happen with him from time to time.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
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