Prototype for the old Walthers 40 plug door steel car and 40' SS cars?


oliver
 

Ok, I came across a few of these cars which I obviously picked up a
long time ago in a moment of madness;-).

Is there a prototype for either of these cars? The steel car (Walthers
#932-3223)looks like a old ARA design but with a big plug door, so it
was obviously a late 1950s modification? or?

The SS car is still listed on the website:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-2121

Any thoughts on what these cars were/are supposed to represent? Pure
Walthers fantasy? I know, I know...why bother...but my curiosity just
got the better of me.

Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Any thoughts on what these cars were/are supposed to represent? Pure
Walthers fantasy? I know, I know...why bother...but my curiosity just
got the better of me.
Stefan --
These are Walthers production of the old Train Miniature cars, AFAIK. As such, they were a godsend when first produced, as they offered different bodies from what small variety was then available; but they have a "composite/generic" design, so that all could use the same underframe and parts like ends, etc. could mixed and matched. Unfortunately in today's view, most of the permutations have no prototype and the ones that resemble something real are fairly crude by modern standards. I'd say these are junkers or for conversion to MOW use (with lotsa alteration) unless you use the "six-foot rule."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stefan Lerch� asked:
"Is there a prototype for either of these cars? The steel car (Walthers
#932-3223) looks like a old ARA design but with a big plug door, so it
was obviously a late 1950s modification? or?"

Both these kits were originally from the Train-Miniature line. This kit is
a bizarre mish-mash of details - an 8 foot wide plug door, 8 panel sides
(that don't extend to the side sill), 3/3/3 Dreadnaught ends, an odd 11
carline flat panel roof, and the rehashed Rock Island reefer underframe
that's used for all the cars in this line. The car is similar in
proportions to the BAR/NH "State of Maine" insulated boxcars, but these
prototypes had 10 panel sides, improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel
roofs, and straight center sills.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bar/bar2573ajc.jpg

It sort of looks like the final iteration of the DT&I USRA DS boxcar
rebuilds, but even the three-foot rule won't help this model fool anyone.
There aren't any prototype matches for this model.
http://dti.railfan.net/Pototype_Images/rs/DTI_19028be.jpg


"The SS car is still listed on the website:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-2121 "

The SS car is more useful, but you'll need to do a lot of work to make a
credible model. The model resembles a number of 8 ft 7 in IH Howe truss SS
boxcars of the 1920 for many roads, the most common cars for the MILW:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/milwssboxmain.html
Other roads with similar include ATSF (ex-Clinton & Oklahoma Western), CN,
CV, G&F, KCS, LNE, L&A, Missouri & Arkansas, MP/I-GN, and RI, though all of
these cars have different ends and/or roofs than the model. Some of these
prototypes are available in resin from Sunshine and Funaro. Richard
Hendrickson kitbashed ATSF Class Bx-22 from this model during the 1980s; you
can catch a glimpse of it in a model freight consist article in the January
1990 Railmodel Journal. (Unfortunately, this model was stolen some time
ago.)

The biggest flaws of this model are the roof, which isn't a very convincing
model of either the Murphy XLA or Hutchins roof common to these cars; the
ends, especially the DS end or the 3/3/3 Dreadnaught end (the "braced end"
is salvageable), and the rehashed RI reefer underframe.

This model is currently most valuable as a "Tan Dot" stand-in to break up
the "sea of 10 ft 6 in steel boxcars" prevalent on many layouts. By doing
basic upgrades to this model (similar to what I did to the Walthers X29 in
my TKM series) with new paint and lettering, you can visually crate some
variety in your boxcar fleet and "stair step" in your trains until you've
built enough "Green Dot" single sheathed boxcar models from resin kits and
quality kitbashes.


Ben Hom


oliver
 

Thanks Ben! I had a feeling these were only stand-ins.
Stefan


--- In STMFC@..., "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:
Stefan Lerché asked:
"Is there a prototype for either of these cars? The steel car (Walthers
#932-3223) looks like a old ARA design but with a big plug door, so it
was obviously a late 1950s modification? or?"

Both these kits were originally from the Train-Miniature line. This
kit is
a bizarre mish-mash of details - an 8 foot wide plug door, 8 panel sides
(that don't extend to the side sill), 3/3/3 Dreadnaught ends, an odd 11
carline flat panel roof, and the rehashed Rock Island reefer underframe
that's used for all the cars in this line. The car is similar in
proportions to the BAR/NH "State of Maine" insulated boxcars, but these
prototypes had 10 panel sides, improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel
roofs, and straight center sills.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bar/bar2573ajc.jpg

It sort of looks like the final iteration of the DT&I USRA DS boxcar
rebuilds, but even the three-foot rule won't help this model fool
anyone.
There aren't any prototype matches for this model.
http://dti.railfan.net/Pototype_Images/rs/DTI_19028be.jpg


"The SS car is still listed on the website:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-2121 "

The SS car is more useful, but you'll need to do a lot of work to make a
credible model. The model resembles a number of 8 ft 7 in IH Howe
truss SS
boxcars of the 1920 for many roads, the most common cars for the MILW:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/milwssboxmain.html
Other roads with similar include ATSF (ex-Clinton & Oklahoma
Western), CN,
CV, G&F, KCS, LNE, L&A, Missouri & Arkansas, MP/I-GN, and RI, though
all of
these cars have different ends and/or roofs than the model. Some of
these
prototypes are available in resin from Sunshine and Funaro. Richard
Hendrickson kitbashed ATSF Class Bx-22 from this model during the
1980s; you
can catch a glimpse of it in a model freight consist article in the
January
1990 Railmodel Journal. (Unfortunately, this model was stolen some time
ago.)

The biggest flaws of this model are the roof, which isn't a very
convincing
model of either the Murphy XLA or Hutchins roof common to these
cars; the
ends, especially the DS end or the 3/3/3 Dreadnaught end (the
"braced end"
is salvageable), and the rehashed RI reefer underframe.

This model is currently most valuable as a "Tan Dot" stand-in to
break up
the "sea of 10 ft 6 in steel boxcars" prevalent on many layouts. By
doing
basic upgrades to this model (similar to what I did to the Walthers
X29 in
my TKM series) with new paint and lettering, you can visually crate some
variety in your boxcar fleet and "stair step" in your trains until
you've
built enough "Green Dot" single sheathed boxcar models from resin
kits and
quality kitbashes.


Ben Hom


Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Stefan,
As Ben Hom said, they are at best stand-ins. That said, several companies
ran cars similar to this in the last era of ice reefers. Plug doors were
becoming popular but roof heights could not be pushed too high or icing
crews would need to push the ice blocks up hill!

I have used these 8'7" IH box cars and reefers as stand-ins for similar
reefers of FGEX, WFE, PFE (r40-26?). I have seen photos of them in old
books at my model RR club. As I recall the PFE car require a tabbed side
sill and they all could stand to have an IM Murphy roof. I have done this
on a few. I have a Sam Herschbein photo of FGEX 59932 downloaded from the
web. Unfortunately I do not recall where on the web so I can't point you to
the JPEG.

ATSF also had cars similar to this but that required even more work. I don't
recall of the top of my head what it was.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: stefanelaine [mailto:stefanelaine@...]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 5:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Prototype for the old Walthers 40 plug door steel car and
40' SS cars?



Ok, I came across a few of these cars which I obviously picked up a long
time ago in a moment of madness;-).

Is there a prototype for either of these cars? The steel car (Walthers
#932-3223)looks like a old ARA design but with a big plug door, so it was
obviously a late 1950s modification? or?

The SS car is still listed on the website:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-2121

Any thoughts on what these cars were/are supposed to represent? Pure
Walthers fantasy? I know, I know...why bother...but my curiosity just got
the better of me.

Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada





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Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Andy Miller wrote:
"ATSF also had cars similar to this but that required even more work. I
don't
recall of the top of my head what it was."

An easier approach to the SFRD plug door reefers is to use the C&BT A1, B1,
C1, and E1 Santa Fe reefer kits, or the Sunshine 43 series kits (still
available). The C&BT plug door kits have not been superceded by the
Intermountain models and are worth hanging on to if you can find them. See
Jordan/Hendrickson/Moore/Hale's Refrigerator Cars for specific information
on these cars:
http://www.atsfrr.org/store/book3.htm


Ben Hom


Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

I had forgotten the C&BT cars. Thanx Ben.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom [mailto:b.hom@...]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Prototype for the old Walthers 40 plug door steel car
and 40' SS cars?


Andy Miller wrote:
"ATSF also had cars similar to this but that required even more work. I
don't recall of the top of my head what it was."

An easier approach to the SFRD plug door reefers is to use the C&BT A1, B1,
C1, and E1 Santa Fe reefer kits, or the Sunshine 43 series kits (still
available). The C&BT plug door kits have not been superceded by the
Intermountain models and are worth hanging on to if you can find them. See
Jordan/Hendrickson/Moore/Hale's Refrigerator Cars for specific information
on these cars:
http://www.atsfrr.org/store/book3.htm


Ben Hom




------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Help
save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links