Suggestions for decaling a spare IM USRA Composite gon?


oliver
 

I've found one of these in undecorated in my pile of stuff. Does
anyone have a suggestion for a good set of prototypical decals I could
use for this orphan? I'd like to decal (or dry transfer)it for a
smaller road if possible, but any road would do if the decals are correct.
Thanks in advance
Stefan Lerché
Duncan BC Canada


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stefan Lerché asked:
"I've found one of these in undecorated in my pile of stuff. Does
anyone have a suggestion for a good set of prototypical decals I
could use for this orphan? I'd like to decal (or dry transfer) it
for a smaller road if possible, but any road would do if the decals
are correct."

The following are possibilities depending on your era and your
willingness to do minor kitbashing to model the steel side rebuilds
that retained the trusses:

KCS: Oddballs 87-625, steel side conversion
http://mopac1.tripod.com/625.gif

SL-SF: Oddballs 87-637, steel side conversion with side doors
http://mopac1.tripod.com/637.gif

Also, check out the following articles by Mont Switzer for more
ideas:

"Intermountain's USRA Composite Gondola", Mainline Modeler, March
2000

[PRR] "Class G24 USRA Gondola Rebuild," Mainline Modeler, February
2001

"Monon USRA Composite Gondola," Model Railroader, March 2001 page 94

"Monon Steel Gondola - Kitbashing from an InterMountain Kit,"
Mainline Modeler, March 2002

"USRA Clone Composite Gondola," Mainline Modeler, September 2004


Ben Hom


Paul Lyons
 

In a message dated 3/15/2005 7:29:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steamera@netins.net writes:
stefanelaine wrote:


Ben,
Hmmm, some great choices. I wonder where I could find a protoype photo
of that SL-SF car with the doors added
Stefan-If you want to do the SL-SF car with the doors added why don't you
just buy one from Sunshine. They just re-released them last year and Martin even
had one one his CA swing.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


oliver
 

Ben,
Hmmm, some great choices. I wonder where I could find a protoype photo
of that SL-SF car with the doors added and how much rivet detail would
be required for a car with steel sides? Good stuff.
Thanks Ben!

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:

Stefan Lerché asked:
"I've found one of these in undecorated in my pile of stuff. Does
anyone have a suggestion for a good set of prototypical decals I
could use for this orphan? I'd like to decal (or dry transfer) it
for a smaller road if possible, but any road would do if the decals
are correct."

The following are possibilities depending on your era and your
willingness to do minor kitbashing to model the steel side rebuilds
that retained the trusses:

KCS: Oddballs 87-625, steel side conversion
http://mopac1.tripod.com/625.gif

SL-SF: Oddballs 87-637, steel side conversion with side doors
http://mopac1.tripod.com/637.gif

Also, check out the following articles by Mont Switzer for more
ideas:

"Intermountain's USRA Composite Gondola", Mainline Modeler, March
2000

[PRR] "Class G24 USRA Gondola Rebuild," Mainline Modeler, February
2001

"Monon USRA Composite Gondola," Model Railroader, March 2001 page 94

"Monon Steel Gondola - Kitbashing from an InterMountain Kit,"
Mainline Modeler, March 2002

"USRA Clone Composite Gondola," Mainline Modeler, September 2004


Ben Hom


Rob Adams
 

Stefan;

Railroad Model Craftsman ran a Martin Lofton article in their October, 1990 issue that featured the Frisco's rebuilt USRA gons. I don't have access to it right now, but I recall that there were both prototype and modeling photos. Obviously with the Intermountain kit and the Life Like Proto 1000 model, there are now more options for a starting point than 15 years ago.

Kind regards, Rob Adams

stefanelaine wrote:


Ben,
Hmmm, some great choices. I wonder where I could find a protoype photo
of that SL-SF car with the doors added and how much rivet detail would
be required for a car with steel sides? Good stuff.
Thanks Ben!




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@w...> wrote:

Stefan Lerch� asked:
"I've found one of these in undecorated in my pile of stuff. Does
anyone have a suggestion for a good set of prototypical decals I
could use for this orphan? I'd like to decal (or dry transfer) it
for a smaller road if possible, but any road would do if the decals
are correct."

The following are possibilities depending on your era and your
willingness to do minor kitbashing to model the steel side rebuilds
that retained the trusses:

KCS: Oddballs 87-625, steel side conversion
http://mopac1.tripod.com/625.gif

SL-SF: Oddballs 87-637, steel side conversion with side doors
http://mopac1.tripod.com/637.gif

Also, check out the following articles by Mont Switzer for more
ideas:

"Intermountain's USRA Composite Gondola", Mainline Modeler, March
2000

[PRR] "Class G24 USRA Gondola Rebuild," Mainline Modeler, February
2001

"Monon USRA Composite Gondola," Model Railroader, March 2001 page 94

"Monon Steel Gondola - Kitbashing from an InterMountain Kit,"
Mainline Modeler, March 2002

"USRA Clone Composite Gondola," Mainline Modeler, September 2004


Ben Hom



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Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Stefan Lerch� wrote:
"I wonder where I could find a prototype photo of that SL-SF car with the
doors added and how much rivet detail would be required for a car with steel
sides?"

Rob Adams replied:
"Railroad Model Craftsman ran a Martin Lofton article in their October, 1990
issue that featured the Frisco's rebuilt USRA gons. I don't have access to
it right now, but I recall that there were both prototype and modeling
photos."

Just pulled the article. To answer Stefan's question, there's a photo of
SL-SF 85885, a car retaining the original truss members with side doors.
Interestingly, the car retains wood boards for part of the car side. The
panels where the discharge doors were installed lost their diagonals and
were replaced with steel sheet. The Intermountain kit, with its separate
side boards, makes this conversion much easier.

Typical of the Frisco, they rebuilt their USRA composite gons in five major
variations, including panel steel sides, panel steel sides with side doors,
composite cars with discharge doors, composite cars with replacement boards,
Dreadnaught ends, and steel lettering boards, and 10 experimental car with
panel sides reusing the original side stakes. See the article for more
details.


Ben Hom


Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Stefan

What timeframe are you thinking of? Many USRA gons were rebuilt or retired
by the late thirties or early forties so there may not be quite so many
choices if you are working to a later date.

One road that IM never offered as a kit was the Frisco. They had several
thousand built to the same design during the twenties and many survived into
the post war period, though there were detail variations between batches and
many underwent rebuilding to a greater or lesser degree. The biggest
changes were the use of dreadnaught ends on the last couple of batches and
the rebuilding which added steel sides and side doors in various
combinations.

You can use the Oddballs set for the version with side doors to cobble
together enough decal an unrebuilt car.

Cars painted before 1943 were red oxide and those repainted later were black
- Yesteryear models offered a RTR version in the latter scheme.

Another easy scheme is the old AB&C which can easily be cobbled together
from data sets and Roman lettering. Be aware that this road was absorbed
into the ACL in 1946 and the cars were very quickly retired, or rebuilt and
re-lettered into the new owner's standard scheme.


Aidrian


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oliver
 

Aidrian,
Well, I was thinking about the MP cars that Ben Hom mentioned, but now
I am intrigued by the Frisco cars as these seem to offer much more
potential for conversion with the IM kit. I model the late 1940s to
mid 1950s era on the SP so that would work.
Stefan


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton"
<smokeandsteam@s...> wrote:
Stefan

What timeframe are you thinking of? Many USRA gons were rebuilt or
retired
by the late thirties or early forties so there may not be quite so many
choices if you are working to a later date.

One road that IM never offered as a kit was the Frisco. They had several
thousand built to the same design during the twenties and many
survived into
the post war period, though there were detail variations between
batches and
many underwent rebuilding to a greater or lesser degree. The biggest
changes were the use of dreadnaught ends on the last couple of
batches and
the rebuilding which added steel sides and side doors in various
combinations.

You can use the Oddballs set for the version with side doors to cobble
together enough decal an unrebuilt car.

Cars painted before 1943 were red oxide and those repainted later
were black
- Yesteryear models offered a RTR version in the latter scheme.

Another easy scheme is the old AB&C which can easily be cobbled together
from data sets and Roman lettering. Be aware that this road was absorbed
into the ACL in 1946 and the cars were very quickly retired, or
rebuilt and
re-lettered into the new owner's standard scheme.


Aidrian


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005


oliver
 

Paul,
Thanks for the heads up about the Sunshine kit. I didn't realize that
he offered these cars. However, my original query was more with
respect to what I could do with this spare undecorated IM kit I found
in my pile of unbuilt cars, and whether there were any good decals
available for a suitable prototype to add some off road flavor to my
fleet.
thanks again,
Stefan


.--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@a... wrote:
In a message dated 3/15/2005 7:29:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
steamera@n... writes:
stefanelaine wrote:


Ben,
Hmmm, some great choices. I wonder where I could find a protoype photo
of that SL-SF car with the doors added
Stefan-If you want to do the SL-SF car with the doors added why
don't you
just buy one from Sunshine. They just re-released them last year and
Martin even
had one one his CA swing.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA



oliver
 

Ben,

I guess the other question is, how realistic is it for my late 1940s
to mid 1950s era SP California layout to feature such a car? Would
Frisco gons have been seen off line much by this time? Or at anytime
for that matter?
regards
Stefan




Typical of the Frisco, they rebuilt their USRA composite gons in
five major
variations, including panel steel sides, panel steel sides with side
doors,
composite cars with discharge doors, composite cars with replacement
boards,
Dreadnaught ends, and steel lettering boards, and 10 experimental
car with
panel sides reusing the original side stakes. See the article for more
details.


Ben Hom


Eric
 

Rob Adams wrote:

"Railroad Model Craftsman ran a Martin Lofton article in their October,
1990 issue that featured the Frisco's rebuilt USRA gons. I don't have
access to it right now, but I recall that there were both prototype and
modeling photos. Obviously with the Intermountain kit and the Life Like
Proto 1000 model, there are now more options for a starting point than
15 years ago."

What happened to the Proto1000 car? Are they still available? I can't find them even mentioned on
Life-Like's website.

Eric Petersson



________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

stefanelaine wrote:

I guess the other question is, how realistic is it for my late 1940s
to mid 1950s era SP California layout to feature such a car? Would
Frisco gons have been seen off line much by this time? Or at anytime
for that matter?
Assume for a minute that the SLSF gon would appear on the SP in California only if there was some commodity could be loaded on the Frisco that somebody in California wanted. Who would be the consignee and what would be the commodity?

Tim Gilbert


Larry Kline
 

Stefan Laine wrote:
I guess the other question is, how realistic is it for my late 1940s to
mid 1950s era SP California layout to feature such a car? Would Frisco
gons have been seen off line much by this time? Or at anytime for that
matter.

There is a photo showing part of an as-built Frisco USRA composite gon
on p84 of the Polaritz P&LE 2-8-2 book. The location is Blacks Run on
the P&LE near Pittsburgh, PA. The photo is undated, but its main
subject is P&LE H-10-A 2-8-2 #198, which was taken off the books in
April, 1953. The Jan 53 ORER lists 385 of the 1000 Frisco USRA gons
(85000-85999) as _steel frame_. (I have an IM O scale kit to decal and
plan to make a Frisco gon)

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Eric Petersson asked:
"What happened to the Proto 1000 car? Are they still available? I
can't find them even mentioned on Life-Like's website."

This model looks like it has come and gone, though the Life-Like
insiders on this list probably have the full story on this. M.B.
Klein (aka the Life-Like outlet in Baltimore) was moving deeply
discounted P1K USRA composite gons out the door last year and no
longer lists them in stock.

For some reason, Life-Like never went all in on this model. Only
two paint schemes were offered - CB&Q and C&O. Speculation - the
model represents these cars as built (with the exception of the
trucks, which need to be swapped out with Andrews trucks). Perhaps
Life-Like realized the limited commercial potential of this model
and pulled it from the market, especially in light of the
Intermountain model.

Like the other P1K freight cars, this model had molded on grabs, a
molded on lever action handbrake, and simplified underbody detail.
One nice thing about this model is that it's weighed vice being too
light.


Ben Hom


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Ben Hom:

One nice thing about this model is that it's weighed vice being
too light.
?????

Tom Madden


rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

larry kline wrote:

<snip> "There is a photo showing part of an as-built Frisco USRA
composite gon on p84 of the Polaritz P&LE 2-8-2 book. The Jan 53 ORER
lists 385 of the 1000 Frisco USRA gons (85000-85999) as _steel
frame_."

I have uploaded a photo of SL-SF 85954 to STMFPH that still has its
original wood sides. Unfortunately, I have lost the origins of the
photo.

Bob Witt

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/stmfph/vwp?.d
ir=/Gondolas&.src=gr&.dnm=USRA+comp+gondola.jpg&.v
iew=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group
/stmfph/lst%3f%26.dir=/Gondolas%26.src=gr%26.view=t


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

I wrote:
"One nice thing about this model is that it's weighed vice being
too light."

Tom Madden replied:
?????

Out of the box, the model is within NMRA RP-20.1 for car weight,
which is more than I can say for most open-top freight cars on the
market.
http://www.nmra.org/standards/pdf/rp-20_1.pdf

In fact, it may exceed RP-20.1, but I'm at work now and cannot
confirm this until I go home and weigh the car.


Ben Hom


Rob Adams
 

I'd agree with Ben's conclusions about the P1K model. I picked one up for comparison with the Intermountain model. To be sure, the weight of the cast underframe is great, but detailing it is more difficult, and the effort required to correct the molded on brake platform, etc, caused me to abandon any ideas of building a fleet with that as a starting point.

I have several of the Intermountain kits, some built, some not, and my impressions of it are mixed. The separate wood components do enable easy weathering of the interior (as well as replacement of the sides and floor with "steel" sheets, but I find the flange thickness of the truss members to be visually problematic. It also causes issues when the stenciling crosses over the truss member from the adjacent wood. To me, any benefits of the separate wood components are more than offset by the visual problems oversize truss member flange dimensions.

In my opinion, the grabs and some of the other detail parts that come in the IM USRA gon kit are abominable, which I don't understand when set in the context of parts in some of Intermountains other (and earlier) kits, namely the R40-23 reefer and PS-1 box car. The IM gons I've built all received wire grabs and other upgrades, and overall, they are nice models, but far from what I'd hope for. I've long hoped that Tichy would come through with an accurate kit that had a level of detail and fit at least on a par with their tank, USRA box or hopper. While we're better off than ten years ago, the perfect USRA gon kit in HO still does not exist. My opinion anyway.

Rob Adams



benjaminfrank_hom wrote:


Eric Petersson asked:
"What happened to the Proto 1000 car? Are they still available? I
can't find them even mentioned on Life-Like's website."

This model looks like it has come and gone, though the Life-Like
insiders on this list probably have the full story on this. M.B.
Klein (aka the Life-Like outlet in Baltimore) was moving deeply
discounted P1K USRA composite gons out the door last year and no
longer lists them in stock.

For some reason, Life-Like never went all in on this model. Only
two paint schemes were offered - CB&Q and C&O. Speculation - the
model represents these cars as built (with the exception of the
trucks, which need to be swapped out with Andrews trucks). Perhaps
Life-Like realized the limited commercial potential of this model
and pulled it from the market, especially in light of the
Intermountain model.

Like the other P1K freight cars, this model had molded on grabs, a
molded on lever action handbrake, and simplified underbody detail. One nice thing about this model is that it's weighed vice being too
light.


Ben Hom






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Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

I wrote regarding the Proto 1000 USRA composite gon:
"In fact, it may exceed RP-20.1, but I'm at work now and cannot
confirm this until I go home and weigh the car."

The P1K USRA composite gon weighs in at 4.5 ounces, exceeding the RP-20.1
weight of 4 ounces (rounded up to the nearest 1/4 oz). (1 oz + 1/2 oz per
inch of car length; car length = 5.75 in)


Ben Hom


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bob Witt wrote:
"I have uploaded a photo of SL-SF 85954 to STMFPH that still has its
original wood sides."

Bob, could you repost it to the files section of STMFPH? Yahoo Groups
reduces files posted to the photos section to save bandwidth, allowing only
moderators and the photo owner to view the full size photo. As a result,
posting large files to the photos section is a waste of space and time as
the majority of the membership can't access the full size photo. There is
no such restriction in the files section.

Thanks.


Ben Hom