ex-PRR cars on Rutland or GMRR? also cars on the OERM


Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Phil;
I had heard the Vermont had some of these cars, and even saw a pic once.

Me and the other guys involved in TKM would love to see some photos of
these cars, so we get the details right. While we know some of what
roof went with what cars, specifics about any of them are especially
useful in doing these cars up right for the magazine.

If you or any other intrepid STMFC members have a chance to get some
images, we could particularly use:

Roof shot (and hoping, treatment type) and running board type

B end details, including handbrake and brake step

Underframe shots

And, of course, car numbers!

Speaking of existing steam-era cars, I got some shots of the freight
cars at OERM recently, and was wondering if anyone had any idea as to
the pedigree of the ex-PRR F30-class flat (I'm thinking F30D, as the
stake pockets have no lips, and you can clearly see the GSC logo in the
casting), the truss-sided 52' WE gon, and some of the tank cars there?
I heard that the X-3 tank is a 6.5k car, and was also wondering if
anyone did the decals for this car in a size that fits the actual model?
I have some nice pics, and was wondering if any of these had good kit
matches and decals available? I'd love to do a few of these guys!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: buchwaldfam [mailto:duff@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rutland PS-1 boxcars



I've got to get back down to Rutland to see that one. The GMRR
had several X26c's. At least one had the diagonal panel roofs, but
the photo is high angle off of an overpass, and doesn't show the car
number. The two cars in Middlebury have rectangular panel roofs. If
the car in Rutland is an X29 rebuild, even better! That one is on my
to-do list, so reference material needs to be acquired!
For the really adventurous, there used to be a floating bridge
between Larabee's Point and Ticonderoga, NY. It had a nasty habit of
capsizing, and some equipment is still down there.

Best regards,
Phil Buchwald


buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Elden,

The two cars sitting in Middlebury have rectangular panel
roofs. The trucks are solid bearing types, however they are not the
original Andrews trucks... understandable since they ran in the
70's.
One car has been painted white with red roof and ends. The
other is in brown primer on one side and both ends, while the other
side is still in GMRR green with the words, "Terry's Pullman" neatly
stenciled next to the door. Both cars are "stock", with no MOW
modifications, etc.
I looked all over for enough paint to get a car number, but
had no luck. I even went back there in early evening and tried to
see if I could catch a shadow of the original numbers under the top
coat of paint, but they must have done a thorough job when they
repainted them.
Is there some sort of equivalent to an automobile "VIN" tag
that the PRR would have attached to the cars? Serial number
stampings in the sheet metal somewhere? Could a serial number on the
old USRA underframe be tied to a PRR number? I did see numerals
stamped on various pieces here and there, but they didn't mean
anything to me.
I haven't seen the car that is down in Rutland, but would
like to get down there if I get a weekend off.
The photo shows a diagonal panel roof, definitely in GMRR
paint, but like I wrote before, you can't make out a car number.

Best Regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Phil;
I had heard the Vermont had some of these cars, and even saw a pic
once.

Me and the other guys involved in TKM would love to see some
photos of
these cars, so we get the details right. While we know some of
what
roof went with what cars, specifics about any of them are
especially
useful in doing these cars up right for the magazine.

If you or any other intrepid STMFC members have a chance to get
some
images, we could particularly use:

Roof shot (and hoping, treatment type) and running board type

B end details, including handbrake and brake step

Underframe shots

And, of course, car numbers!

Elden Gatwood


armprem
 

Elden,I have sometimes found car numbers stenciled on the underframe,on
trucks and on the inside.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "buchwaldfam" <duff@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ex-PRR cars on Rutland or GMRR? also cars on the OERM




Elden,

The two cars sitting in Middlebury have rectangular panel
roofs. The trucks are solid bearing types, however they are not the
original Andrews trucks... understandable since they ran in the
70's.
One car has been painted white with red roof and ends. The
other is in brown primer on one side and both ends, while the other
side is still in GMRR green with the words, "Terry's Pullman" neatly
stenciled next to the door. Both cars are "stock", with no MOW
modifications, etc.
I looked all over for enough paint to get a car number, but
had no luck. I even went back there in early evening and tried to
see if I could catch a shadow of the original numbers under the top
coat of paint, but they must have done a thorough job when they
repainted them.
Is there some sort of equivalent to an automobile "VIN" tag
that the PRR would have attached to the cars? Serial number
stampings in the sheet metal somewhere? Could a serial number on the
old USRA underframe be tied to a PRR number? I did see numerals
stamped on various pieces here and there, but they didn't mean
anything to me.
I haven't seen the car that is down in Rutland, but would
like to get down there if I get a weekend off.
The photo shows a diagonal panel roof, definitely in GMRR
paint, but like I wrote before, you can't make out a car number.

Best Regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Phil;
I had heard the Vermont had some of these cars, and even saw a pic
once.

Me and the other guys involved in TKM would love to see some
photos of
these cars, so we get the details right. While we know some of
what
roof went with what cars, specifics about any of them are
especially
useful in doing these cars up right for the magazine.

If you or any other intrepid STMFC members have a chance to get
some
images, we could particularly use:

Roof shot (and hoping, treatment type) and running board type

B end details, including handbrake and brake step

Underframe shots

And, of course, car numbers!

Elden Gatwood







Yahoo! Groups Links







Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Phil;
That is very interesting info. Yes, the Andrews seem to have been
replaced, often with PRR 2D-F8 trucks, when they got rebuilt, but truck
swaps after that were even common.

I have never seen anything that resembles a serial or VIN number on a
PRR freight car, just the car numbers on the exterior, and one on the
underframe (perhaps in case the two were separated for a rebuild and
they wanted to keep track of the underframe for accounting purposes),
but your idea makes more sense. I have seen parts numbers stamped into
just about everything.

If the other one with the diagonal roof is an X26C, then that would make
it one of the last 500 rebuilds. We also don't know if it may have been
one of the X26C that were further rebuilt in the mid-60's into an X26F.
Since the X26Cs were hitting the 40-year rule, some portion of the fleet
was supposedly re-underframed to allow them to continue in service. I
don't know what the details of this swap out were, though. And I say
supposedly with good reason. The PRR rebuilds sometimes didn't seem to
include parts that you would have thought would have had to have been
changed. Crown trucks are one example. How those trucks ended up
escaping replacement when they outlawed Andrews-style trucks is beyond
me! And they ended up on "rebuilds" like the new G36 class gons?

Let us know if you find anything more out!

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: buchwaldfam [mailto:duff@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ex-PRR cars on Rutland or GMRR? also cars on the
OERM



Elden,

The two cars sitting in Middlebury have rectangular panel
roofs. The trucks are solid bearing types, however they are not the
original Andrews trucks... understandable since they ran in the
70's.
One car has been painted white with red roof and ends. The
other is in brown primer on one side and both ends, while the other
side is still in GMRR green with the words, "Terry's Pullman" neatly
stenciled next to the door. Both cars are "stock", with no MOW
modifications, etc.
I looked all over for enough paint to get a car number, but
had no luck. I even went back there in early evening and tried to
see if I could catch a shadow of the original numbers under the top
coat of paint, but they must have done a thorough job when they
repainted them.
Is there some sort of equivalent to an automobile "VIN" tag
that the PRR would have attached to the cars? Serial number
stampings in the sheet metal somewhere? Could a serial number on the
old USRA underframe be tied to a PRR number? I did see numerals
stamped on various pieces here and there, but they didn't mean
anything to me.
I haven't seen the car that is down in Rutland, but would
like to get down there if I get a weekend off.
The photo shows a diagonal panel roof, definitely in GMRR
paint, but like I wrote before, you can't make out a car number.

Best Regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Phil;
I had heard the Vermont had some of these cars, and even saw a pic
once.

Me and the other guys involved in TKM would love to see some
photos of
these cars, so we get the details right. While we know some of
what
roof went with what cars, specifics about any of them are
especially
useful in doing these cars up right for the magazine.

If you or any other intrepid STMFC members have a chance to get
some
images, we could particularly use:

Roof shot (and hoping, treatment type) and running board type

B end details, including handbrake and brake step

Underframe shots

And, of course, car numbers!

Elden Gatwood







Yahoo! Groups Links


buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

The ironic thing was that when I went over to measure some things,
the green car was opened up, and I got a good look at the inside.
(Very good quality wood for the lining, by the way, and in case anyone
was wondering, the INSIDE of the roof panels were unpainted
galvanized), but I missed my opportunity and neglected to look for a
number stenciled inside! I'll see if the Agway guys will let me peek
inside...
Where on the frame would the number be? On the center sill?

Regards,
Phil buchwald


--- In STMFC@..., "armand premo" <armprem@s...> wrote:
Elden,I have sometimes found car numbers stenciled on the
underframe,on
trucks and on the inside.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----


Greg Martin
 

Phil,

Check the center sill as the car numners were stenciled there.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: buchwaldfam <duff@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:45:48 -0000
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ex-PRR cars on Rutland or GMRR? also cars on the OERM




Elden,

The two cars sitting in Middlebury have rectangular panel
roofs. The trucks are solid bearing types, however they are not the
original Andrews trucks... understandable since they ran in the
70's.
One car has been painted white with red roof and ends. The
other is in brown primer on one side and both ends, while the other
side is still in GMRR green with the words, "Terry's Pullman" neatly
stenciled next to the door. Both cars are "stock", with no MOW
modifications, etc.
I looked all over for enough paint to get a car number, but
had no luck. I even went back there in early evening and tried to
see if I could catch a shadow of the original numbers under the top
coat of paint, but they must have done a thorough job when they
repainted them.
Is there some sort of equivalent to an automobile "VIN" tag
that the PRR would have attached to the cars? Serial number
stampings in the sheet metal somewhere? Could a serial number on the
old USRA underframe be tied to a PRR number? I did see numerals
stamped on various pieces here and there, but they didn't mean
anything to me.
I haven't seen the car that is down in Rutland, but would
like to get down there if I get a weekend off.
The photo shows a diagonal panel roof, definitely in GMRR
paint, but like I wrote before, you can't make out a car number.

Best Regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
Phil;
I had heard the Vermont had some of these cars, and even saw a pic
once.

Me and the other guys involved in TKM would love to see some
photos of
these cars, so we get the details right. While we know some of
what
roof went with what cars, specifics about any of them are
especially
useful in doing these cars up right for the magazine.

If you or any other intrepid STMFC members have a chance to get
some
images, we could particularly use:

Roof shot (and hoping, treatment type) and running board type

B end details, including handbrake and brake step

Underframe shots

And, of course, car numbers!

Elden Gatwood







Yahoo! Groups Links


ljack70117@...
 

On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 03:52 PM, tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Phil,

Check the center sill as the car numners were stenciled there.

Greg Martin
Check the trucks and wheels. The car number will be on those also.
thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens


buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Well, I had it wrong... the green car is formerly VTR #528, not GMRR.
Both cars have 2D-F8 trucks (large depressed area around the springs)
Reading from left to right across the top of the sideframe:
Green car: V9806 PATD ARA 1928 11-29 5 1/2 x 10
White car: AAR 37 PRR V9806A PATD 6582 12-39 5 1/2 x 10

"PATD" was at the crown, directly over the bolsters on both trucks.

No numbers on the wheels that I could see.

The Green car didn't have any identifying numbers, but had the
stencil, "Moving for Dismantling AAR RULE 90 To Luria Bro. Inc.
Modina, Pa RDG RR Del."

I found a partial number stencil on the white car center sill,
between the two crossbearers, on the side opposite from the brake
cylinder:
0670 (possibly 10670, there was a leading
numeral, but couldn't tell if it was a 1, 4, 9, ?. It WAS a vertical
straight line)
Does this fit any X26 number series?

Other details, both have 6 foot doors, metal running boards. The
green car has Youngstown doors; the white one, Superior.

Both cars had the original USRA underframes, however both had an
extra crosstie with additional C-channel stringers installed between
the two crossmembers. Could this be what the PRR did to "replace" the
original underframes at 40 years old? They would have hit 40 in about
1960, and the VTR was still one strike away in that year. So if they
were worth enough to be resold to VTR as useful interchange
equipment, they would have had to be modified by the PRR? The added
parts were definitely NOT original manufacture, since the entire
underframe appears to be riveted construction. These parts were
welded in place.

Best Regards,
Phil Buchwald

(It's sort of like playing detective!)