B&O Class M-41 boxcar modeling


Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Mark Heiden wrote:

I have pictures of 4002 and 4003 that are clearly marked M-41. I
haven't found a picture of 4000, but I'd bet it is the same.

Do you know of any models for these cars, or if nothing accurate
exists, any good stand-ins?
==================================



Mark,

The Western Maryland had some similar DS boxcars, and I have a few
on the program to build for my circa 1926 HO scale layout. I have
builders images of the WM and BR&P cars I bought from Keith
Retterer. They have several similarities, including the IL and the
fishbelly underframe. I was looking at a quick and dirty conversion
using MDC/Roundhouse old time boxcars and substituting a Bethlehem
Car Works fishbelly underframe. Here's their website, but this part
is not listed:
http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/

After test fitting the underframe and examining the prototype
photos, I may just scratchbuild the box to fit the frame. This would
follow the prototype as it seems the box structure sits on top of
the sills instead of overlapping them. I still need to compare
height to the running boards on this project, but there are a few
more things to finish up before I progress on these cars.

The underframes are $5 each. You may want to pick up one or two and
see how you want to approach modeling these cars. These comments and
materials are for HO scale models.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

Eric Hansmann" <ehansmann@a...> wrote:


Mark,

The Western Maryland had some similar DS boxcars, and I have a few
on the program to build for my circa 1926 HO scale layout. I have
builders images of the WM and BR&P cars I bought from Keith
Retterer. They have several similarities, including the IL and the
fishbelly underframe. I was looking at a quick and dirty conversion
using MDC/Roundhouse old time boxcars and substituting a Bethlehem
Car Works fishbelly underframe. Here's their website, but this part
is not listed:
http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/

After test fitting the underframe and examining the prototype
photos, I may just scratchbuild the box to fit the frame. This
would
follow the prototype as it seems the box structure sits on top of
the sills instead of overlapping them. I still need to compare
height to the running boards on this project, but there are a few
more things to finish up before I progress on these cars.

The underframes are $5 each. You may want to pick up one or two and
see how you want to approach modeling these cars. These comments
and
materials are for HO scale models.
Eric and Mark,

The Old & Weary Car Shops issued models based on the MDC car in the
Fall of 1998 as OWBC-7 Series No.7 MDC Roundhouse B. R. & P. Ry. 3500
Series Steel frame double-sheathed wood box car. Their web site also
has a photo of the B. R. & P. 4500 Series box car.

http://www.theoldandwearycarshop.com/

Bob Witt


Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Bob Witt wrote:

Eric and Mark,

The Old & Weary Car Shops issued models based on the MDC car in the
Fall of 1998 as OWBC-7 Series No.7 MDC Roundhouse B. R. & P. Ry. 3500
Series Steel frame double-sheathed wood box car. Their web site also
has a photo of the B. R. & P. 4500 Series box car.

http://www.theoldandwearycarshop.com/

============================================



Thanks Bob. I'm familiar with the O&W offerings, I just forgot about them. I
have a couple of the BR&P boxcars stashed in the "to build" pile. I also
have the same builders photo of BR&P 4500 that is featured on the O&W site
here:
http://www.theoldandwearycarshop.com/boxcars.html

I do note the MDC underframe with these cars is their newer version for the
reefer kits. It is a steel, straight center sill. These cars did have a
fishbelly center sill, so some styrene work will need to be done if the MDC
underframes are used.

This type of boxcar construction seems pretty standard for that period. The
side sill channel and channel end sills are quite distinctive. With the
visible side sill channel, it looks like it's a flat car with a box on top.
In looking over the builders photos I have for the BR&P and WM cars, it
seems the interior and overall height may differ from the MDC models because
the side sheathing comes down near the top of the side sill. This is a point
that makes me consider scratchbuilding the superstructure to fit the
Bethlehem Car Works fishbelly underframe. I think too much of the bottom of
the MDC cars would need to be trimmed to get the proper look of the car at
the sill and the overall height would be off. At least the car ends are just
wood sheathing.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Here are a few more box cars and reefers of a similar construction:
http://www.theoldandwearycarshop.com/refbox.html

Hmm, the CNJ car on this page may have a straight center sill. Or it's just
really shallow.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

"Eric Hansmann" <ehansmann@a...> wrote:
============================================

This type of boxcar construction seems pretty standard for that
period. The side sill channel and channel end sills are quite
distinctive. With the visible side sill channel, it looks like it's a
flat car with a box on it.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
The MDC 36-ft house car body seems to fit many prototype applications.
John Nehrich has several examples on his web site. I have a "not
completely finished" M-13 that uses the MDC body with a scratched
built underframe. I recall the major dimensions are about correct
(EW, EH and the height to the top of the eaves and running boards.

Here are a few more box cars and reefers of a similar construction:
http://www.theoldandwearycarshop.com/refbox.html

Hmm, the CNJ car on this page may have a straight center sill. Or
it's just really shallow.

To me it looks like it has straight center sills. This seems
reasonable since the side and end sills are "taller" compared to the
ones in the other photos. These members probably provided sufficient
mechnaical strength without the need for fishbelley center sills.
Remember also these early cars with steel underframes still had wood
framing under the sheathing rather than steel used in later designs so
there was little or no structural support provide to the car as a
whole. Your example is essentially correct. These early house cars
were wood boxes resting on steel platforms.

Bob Witt


Mark Heiden
 

Hi Eric,

Do you have an item number for the Bethlehem Car Works underframe?
Even if it isn't listed on the current site, that might help to track
them down. Is it a part designed to fit the MDC/Roundhouse cars, or
more generic?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@i...> wrote:

Eric Hansmann" <ehansmann@a...> wrote:


Mark,

The Western Maryland had some similar DS boxcars, and I have a
few
on the program to build for my circa 1926 HO scale layout. I have
builders images of the WM and BR&P cars I bought from Keith
Retterer. They have several similarities, including the IL and
the
fishbelly underframe. I was looking at a quick and dirty
conversion
using MDC/Roundhouse old time boxcars and substituting a
Bethlehem
Car Works fishbelly underframe. Here's their website, but this
part
is not listed:
http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/

After test fitting the underframe and examining the prototype
photos, I may just scratchbuild the box to fit the frame. This
would
follow the prototype as it seems the box structure sits on top of
the sills instead of overlapping them. I still need to compare
height to the running boards on this project, but there are a few
more things to finish up before I progress on these cars.

The underframes are $5 each. You may want to pick up one or two
and
see how you want to approach modeling these cars. These comments
and
materials are for HO scale models.


Mark Heiden
 

Hi Bob,

Does the MDC/Roundhouse car match the outside length of the M-13 (or
M-41 for that matter)? I was playing with the contrast function of
my graphics program today and discovered the fishbelly side sill on
the M-13 that you wrote about earlier. Could the Westerfield M-15 be
kitbashed into an M-13? The Indestructable ends seem a rather
daunting challenge to me!

Thanks,
Mark Heiden
--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@i...> wrote:

The MDC 36-ft house car body seems to fit many prototype
applications.
John Nehrich has several examples on his web site. I have a "not
completely finished" M-13 that uses the MDC body with a scratched
built underframe. I recall the major dimensions are about correct
(EW, EH and the height to the top of the eaves and running boards.


rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

"Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@h...> wrote:

Does the MDC/Roundhouse car match the outside length of the M-13
(or
M-41 for that matter)? I was playing with the contrast function of
my graphics program today and discovered the fishbelly side sill on
the M-13 that you wrote about earlier. Could the Westerfield M-15
be kitbashed into an M-13? The Indestructable ends seem a rather
daunting challenge to me!
Mark,

MDC body basically matches the car body of the M-13 if one reduces the
height of the ends by removing some of the bottom so the wood sides
overlap the side-sills. I have no scale drawings so I compared the
dimensions to those on the drawings supplied in the Pro Custom Hobbies
I-16 caboose kit (These were rebuilt in WWII from M-13 box cars) and
those on Equipment Diagrams I obtained much later.

Depending upon your modeling standards one could fashion a Westerfield
PRR XL box car into a B&O M-13. There are many similarities and both
box cars were designed around the time the PRR controlled the B&O. If
you ask nicely maybe Al Westerfield would sell you some Indestructible
ends as parts. The end sills and poling pockets will be a challenge.
The XL may be a better choice than the M-15 as the XL and M-13
underframes are very similar with a more shallow fish belly. Now if
Al would just make kits for the various class M-13 ...

I hope this helps,

Bob Witt


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Mark Heiden asked:
"Do you have an item number for the Bethlehem Car Works underframe?"

Kitbits #5, MSRP $6.


"Is it a part designed to fit the MDC/Roundhouse cars, or more generic?"

It's designed to fit the MDC boxcar and reefer. The centersill,
crossmembers, stringers, and floor are cast as one piece. The bolsters are
cast separately.


Ben Hom


Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Mark Heiden wrote:

Do you have an item number for the Bethlehem Car Works underframe?
Even if it isn't listed on the current site, that might help to track
them down. Is it a part designed to fit the MDC/Roundhouse cars, or
more generic?

===================================


Mark,

The Bethlehem Car Works part is:

Kitbits #5 - Floor & Bolsters for MDC 36' freight cars
1 set - $6.00

Sorry I was off by a buck on the price. I called and talked to someone at
Bethlehem Car Works when I placed my order. Phone number is on their web
page. The parts seem to be cast in a PVC styrene, not ABS. I tried using
Testors styrene cement, but nothing stuck. In discussing this with another
list member last night, he recommended Tenax.

Now I need to build them....

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:
The Bethlehem Car Works part is:
Kitbits #5 - Floor & Bolsters for MDC 36' freight cars
1 set - $6.00
...The parts seem to be cast in a PVC styrene, not ABS. I tried using
Testors styrene cement, but nothing stuck. In discussing this with
another
list member last night, he recommended Tenax.
The BCW replacement MDC underframes are cast urethane, not plastic.
They can be bonded with CA or epoxy.

Tom Madden


Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

--- Tom Madden wrote:

The BCW replacement MDC underframes are cast urethane, not plastic.
They can be bonded with CA or epoxy.
======================================



Thank you Tom! That saves a few $$ on a bottle of Tenax.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.