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1 - 20 of 28
Essential freight cars in RMC
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buchwaldfam <duff@...>
Yes... I did an X26c and used up some "junk" to build it (I'm
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cheap!). It started as an Accurail 40' box car and I replaced the doors with some C&BT Youngstown doors. They looked just fine. But on the X29b that they built for the magazine article, they widened the door with some strip. Personally, I wouldn't know the difference, "seven feet" refers to the door opening, not the width of the door panel, right? I guess that I could go back and measure those cars some more. Regards, Phil Buchwald --- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Phil Buchwald wrote:I remember the article in (I think) RMJ several years ago. TheOdd, as CB&T made a 7-ft. door too. I have some. |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Phil Buchwald wrote:
I remember the article in (I think) RMJ several years ago. TheOdd, as CB&T made a 7-ft. door too. I have some. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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buchwaldfam <duff@...>
I remember the article in (I think) RMJ several years ago. The
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underframe for the X29B looked good. The problem was that the doors on the C&BT body were too small and had to be enlarged somewhat to represent the prototype's 7 footers. Seems that if someone has the Sunshine kit, a good way to go would be to get a Branchline X43 or undec 7'door kit and use it. Would save you a lot of time and work. Phil Buchwald --- In STMFC@..., "Thomas M. Olsen" <tmolsen@U...> wrote:
The Unibody kits was made up of a C&BT body and Sunshine castings and underframe parts.almost everyone that I know who bought them, still hasn't built them.to begin casting and releasing them!year. It Behalf Ofappears that C&BT is long forgotten. flat kit.Thomas M. Olsen convertingThis was the last wood body car that the Penn had prior to their numerous asthe X31 box cars into steel stock cars. It was also almost as thethe ubiquitous K7a's which Broadway Limited brought out recently. car,problems that came with the BLI K7a's. the MDCopen or solid ended, both would be better. As in other cars, manufacturer'sjust doesn't cut it.Bill, AFAIK a 36' stock car in styrene isn't high on any ethepriority list for future production. However, resin kits ar kitssubject ofTed's series in RMC, and Westerfield makes fine resin numerousfor the SP/T&NO/NWP etc. 36' stock cars, which were the most MILW's 36'cars of that type during the steam era, as well as for the Burlingtonstock cars, of which there were more than 3,000. forand the C&NW, and some day it would be nice to have resin kits brass).those as well (the Q cars have been done in HO, but only in -~--> Give --~->the gift of life to a sick child.
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Chris Sawicki
List, Jim or Ted- is the referred to complete list posted somewhere.
I have searched the message archives and STMFC web page and could not locate? TIA, Chris Sawicki --- In STMFC@..., "Jim and Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@v...> wrote: For historical interest, here, minus the ones already covered, isTed's original Essential Freight Cars list from 2 years ago.Yankee Clipper/F&C)and Westerfield, respectively)SAL) 19. Anthracite theme - DL&W ARA DS cars and LV 'wrong way' cars(Sunshine and Funaro)all Sunshine or Central Hobbies on Wagontop)new steel gons (Sunshine and Funaro)Intermountain) 27. NYC USRA design steel box cars (Westerfield) |
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Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Apr 26, 2005, at 12:52 AM, Thomas M. Olsen wrote:
Martin Lofton already has the new masters for the X29B and X26C fromThe X26C is imminent. I did artwork for decals and had an in-progress casting of a side that was used to confirm fit of the artwork to the model. I don't know anything about the X29B, and while I appreciate its value to many, its release is of little value to me as I can't use any. I'll say a prayer for the rest of you, though. Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912 |
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Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
Andy,
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Martin Lofton already has the new masters for the X29B and X26C from Frank Hodina on hand. Frank passed them to Martin prior to Martin's California trip. They will be offered as flat kits, but he has not yet poured the casting rubber for molds. If everyone on this list that has an interest in getting Martin to put these cars out this year, then they should drop him or Tricia Lofton a note requesting them. It has taken me almost 6 years to convince him to reissue these cars which had originally been Unibody kits. The Unibody kits was made up of a C&BT body and Sunshine castings and underframe parts. Unfortunately, you had a lot of work to do to build them and almost everyone that I know who bought them, still hasn't built them. So if you want the X29B and X26C, write or call Martin and ask him to begin casting and releasing them! Tom Olsen 7 Boundary Road, West Branch Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 (302) 738-4292 tmolsen@... Andy Miller wrote: If this is a poll, you have my vote. Hear, hear, K8s, K8s, K8s! |
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Doug Brown <brown194@...>
Reading this thread makes me wonder why BLI made the K7s. The same logic
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should apply, strengthened by the fact that the K7 was unique to the Pennsy. Doug Brown -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim Gilbert Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:26 PM To: STMFC@... Cc: 'Ted Culotta'; bills@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Essential freight cars in RMC Andy Miller wrote: Tim,cars and I believe there are enough Pennsy fans alone to warrant a PRR carnot yet available except in brass.1) I live in Mount Carmel PA. 2) I model the B&M. 3) The subject is "essential (sic.) freight cars." The K8 was not essential according to Ted Culotta's definition. 4) That there are enough SPF's to warrant a K8 model is irrelevant to the subject of the discussion. Tim Gilbert Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
Andy Miller wrote:
Tim,1) I live in Mount Carmel PA. 2) I model the B&M. 3) The subject is "essential (sic.) freight cars." The K8 was not essential according to Ted Culotta's definition. 4) That there are enough SPF's to warrant a K8 model is irrelevant to the subject of the discussion. Tim Gilbert |
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Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
Tim,
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I'm sorry you are so down on Easterners, but the "poll" was for resin cars and I believe there are enough Pennsy fans alone to warrant a PRR car not yet available except in brass. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim Gilbert Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:40 AM To: STMFC@... Cc: Ted Culotta; bills@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Essential freight cars in RMC Andy Miller wrote: If this is a poll, you have my vote. Hear, hear, K8s, K8s, K8s!Nonsense! If you remember Ted Culotta's Introduction to "The Essential Freight Car" series on page 79 of the April 2003 RMC, "Essential Freight Cars ... should be present on almost ALL steam/diesel transition or first or early second diesel-era layouts ...." Since when could a PRR stock car appear on RR's on the West Coast in any quantity to justify a western RR modeler to waste his time and resources on a PRR stock car at the expense of other freight cars which would be far more appropriate to appear on his layout? I'm not saying that a PRR K8 is not an appropriate prototype to model, but it would be foolish for a manufacturer to rely on many Western RR modelers to buy a K8 model. The market would be restricted to eastern RR modelers including the SPF's. A boxcar such as the X29 is different than a stock car because of the variety of commodities that a boxcar could carry versus the relatively few which a stock car could. Boxcars regularly traveled to all parts of the nation, and when they were emptied, a large percentage of them were reloaded, and sent elsewhere. Stock Cars were essentially a rural to urban movement with few possible return loads. Also, LA slaughterhouses (or feedlots) did not buy much livestock from Pennsylvania. The last paragraph of Ted's introduction said "This series will not focus on cars that were not widely interchanged, however. An example would be the N&W H2/H2a/H3 hoppers which were built in vast numbers, but tended to stay on the home road." I beg to differ with Ted's statement that N&W's hoppers were mostly "stay at homes." For most years in the 1940-60 Era, the daily average of cars on the N&W were fewer that the number of hoppers the N&W owned. which infers that N&W hoppers were interchanged with other railroads (in 1947, the N&W delivered over 195,000 loaded cars to the PRR at Columbus OH: - most of them N&W hoppers - because of Car Service Rule C-411, it can be assumed that any loaded N&W hopper east of the Rockies was loaded with coal from N&W's territory). The movement of N&W hoppers off-road, however, was mostly restricted to nearby roads. The occasional N&W hopper did go over UP's Sherman Hill, but it was a rarity - estimated to be about one every 2,000 freight cars. Now if a Sherman Hill modeler has 2,000 cars on his layout, he may be justified in having one N&W hopper. The use of the adjective "essential" may be unfortunate which some have applied locally or regionally. A better adjective may be "universal" or "ubiquitous." In the context of Ted's series, the cars to be discussed were, in large part, designs developed either by individual RR's (or private car lines) themselves, by an association committee, or a manufacturer. These designs had to be produced in large enough quantities so as any modeler could justify having them on his layout regardless of where the prototype for that layout was located. Once in service, cars of the particular design could appear in revenue service on any railroad - real railroads, unlike some modelers, usually hauled cars for a purpose. Most of the series that Ted has discussed have been boxcars for good reason. Other cars within car types which could be discussed would be eastern fixed bottom gons in steel service, tank cars owned generically by the large car lines and long haul produce reefers. General Flat Cars were also widely dispersed, but the total of these in service barely exceeded the number of X29's which were in service in 1947. Tim Gilbert ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links |
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ed_mines
--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@s...> wrote:
..." Since when could a PRR stock car appear on RR's on the West Coast in any quantity to justify a western RR modeler to waste his time and resources on a PRR stock car at the expense of other freight cars which would be far more appropriate to appear on his layout? Tim, I agree, but is it possible that the K8 was a standard design used by other railroads too? Ambroid letters the cars for several different railroads. I've noticed that NKP and WP had some near identical stock cars; they certainly weren't neighbors. Regarding the statement that N&W's hoppers were mostly "stay at homes" I've seen photos of all hopper trains on the Erie consisting of PRR and NYC hoppers with an occasional N&W hopper. I assume that these trains were delivering bituminous coal. Ed |
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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
Andy Miller wrote:
If this is a poll, you have my vote. Hear, hear, K8s, K8s, K8s!Nonsense! If you remember Ted Culotta's Introduction to "The Essential Freight Car" series on page 79 of the April 2003 RMC, "Essential Freight Cars ... should be present on almost ALL steam/diesel transition or first or early second diesel-era layouts ...." Since when could a PRR stock car appear on RR's on the West Coast in any quantity to justify a western RR modeler to waste his time and resources on a PRR stock car at the expense of other freight cars which would be far more appropriate to appear on his layout? I'm not saying that a PRR K8 is not an appropriate prototype to model, but it would be foolish for a manufacturer to rely on many Western RR modelers to buy a K8 model. The market would be restricted to eastern RR modelers including the SPF's. A boxcar such as the X29 is different than a stock car because of the variety of commodities that a boxcar could carry versus the relatively few which a stock car could. Boxcars regularly traveled to all parts of the nation, and when they were emptied, a large percentage of them were reloaded, and sent elsewhere. Stock Cars were essentially a rural to urban movement with few possible return loads. Also, LA slaughterhouses (or feedlots) did not buy much livestock from Pennsylvania. The last paragraph of Ted's introduction said "This series will not focus on cars that were not widely interchanged, however. An example would be the N&W H2/H2a/H3 hoppers which were built in vast numbers, but tended to stay on the home road." I beg to differ with Ted's statement that N&W's hoppers were mostly "stay at homes." For most years in the 1940-60 Era, the daily average of cars on the N&W were fewer that the number of hoppers the N&W owned. which infers that N&W hoppers were interchanged with other railroads (in 1947, the N&W delivered over 195,000 loaded cars to the PRR at Columbus OH: - most of them N&W hoppers - because of Car Service Rule C-411, it can be assumed that any loaded N&W hopper east of the Rockies was loaded with coal from N&W's territory). The movement of N&W hoppers off-road, however, was mostly restricted to nearby roads. The occasional N&W hopper did go over UP's Sherman Hill, but it was a rarity - estimated to be about one every 2,000 freight cars. Now if a Sherman Hill modeler has 2,000 cars on his layout, he may be justified in having one N&W hopper. The use of the adjective "essential" may be unfortunate which some have applied locally or regionally. A better adjective may be "universal" or "ubiquitous." In the context of Ted's series, the cars to be discussed were, in large part, designs developed either by individual RR's (or private car lines) themselves, by an association committee, or a manufacturer. These designs had to be produced in large enough quantities so as any modeler could justify having them on his layout regardless of where the prototype for that layout was located. Once in service, cars of the particular design could appear in revenue service on any railroad - real railroads, unlike some modelers, usually hauled cars for a purpose. Most of the series that Ted has discussed have been boxcars for good reason. Other cars within car types which could be discussed would be eastern fixed bottom gons in steel service, tank cars owned generically by the large car lines and long haul produce reefers. General Flat Cars were also widely dispersed, but the total of these in service barely exceeded the number of X29's which were in service in 1947. Tim Gilbert |
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Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
If this is a poll, you have my vote. Hear, hear, K8s, K8s, K8s!
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And how about X29Bs. There are rumors that F&C will do one this year. It appears that C&BT is long forgotten. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Thomas M. Olsen Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:48 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Essential freight cars in RMC It would be nice to see if we can get a resin kit maker such as Al Westerfield or Martin Lofton to do the PRR K8 stock cars as a flat kit. This was the last wood body car that the Penn had prior to their converting the X31 box cars into steel stock cars. It was also almost as numerous as the ubiquitous K7a's which Broadway Limited brought out recently. I am sure if Al or Martin did the K8's that we would not have had the problems that came with the BLI K7a's. Tom Olsen 7 Boundary Road, West Branch Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 (302) 738-4292 tmolsen@... Richard Hendrickson wrote: On Apr 22, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Clyde Williams wrote: ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
On Apr 24, 2005, at 5:05 PM, Jim and Lisa Hayes wrote:
forthcoming (these are ARA single sheathed cars) 11. X29/'23 ARA and other derivatives (Red Caboose, Sunshine, Yankeedone already... see alternate ARA single sheathed cars article 16. Southern DS auto cars and 36' truss rod uframe cars (Sunshine anddone under articles about Southern 36' truss rod cars and ARA double sheathed cars 17. Wabash SS auto cars (Funaro)done under ARA double sheathed cars 20. PRR X31 et al (Bowser, Central Hobbies, Sunshine)done under ARA double sheathed cars 32. ACL 40' steel furniture cars (who will make this?)Regards, Ted Culotta Speedwitch Media 100 14th Avenue, San Mateo, CA 94402 info@... www.speedwitch.com (650) 787-1912 |
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Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
For historical interest, here, minus the ones already covered, is Ted's
original Essential Freight Cars list from 2 years ago. 9. ATSF Bx-11/-12/-13 SS box cars (Westerfield) 11. X29/'23 ARA and other derivatives (Red Caboose, Sunshine, Yankee Clipper/F&C) 12. 1932 ARA box car (Sunshine, Yankee Clipper) 13. 1937 AAR box car (IMWX, Red Caboose) 14. Mod. 1937 AAR box car (Intermountain, Sunshine) 15. MP Howe truss SS box cars (Sunshine) 16. Southern DS auto cars and 36' truss rod uframe cars (Sunshine and Westerfield, respectively) 17. Wabash SS auto cars (Funaro) 18. ARA SS cars - B&M, SAL B-3/-4/-5 (Funaro on B&M and Funaro? on SAL) 19. Anthracite theme - DL&W ARA DS cars and LV 'wrong way' cars (Sunshine and Funaro) 20. PRR X31 et al (Bowser, Central Hobbies, Sunshine) 21. Milw ribbed side and B&O wagontops (plus sidebar on PRR X37 - all Sunshine or Central Hobbies on Wagontop) 22. PRR GS gons and derivatives and NYC USRA type rebuilt or built new steel gons (Sunshine and Funaro) 24. SFRD 'ARA' and 'USRA' type rebuilt reefers (Sunshine and Intermountain) 27. NYC USRA design steel box cars (Westerfield) 30. ATSF box car rebuilds (non-USRA - Sunshine mini kit) 32. ACL 40' steel furniture cars (who will make this?) Jim Hayes Portland Oregon |
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Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
It would be nice to see if we can get a resin kit maker such as Al
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Westerfield or Martin Lofton to do the PRR K8 stock cars as a flat kit. This was the last wood body car that the Penn had prior to their converting the X31 box cars into steel stock cars. It was also almost as numerous as the ubiquitous K7a's which Broadway Limited brought out recently. I am sure if Al or Martin did the K8's that we would not have had the problems that came with the BLI K7a's. Tom Olsen 7 Boundary Road, West Branch Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 (302) 738-4292 tmolsen@... Richard Hendrickson wrote: On Apr 22, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Clyde Williams wrote: |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 22, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Clyde Williams wrote:
Bill, AFAIK a 36' stock car in styrene isn't high on any manufacturer's priority list for future production. However, resin kits ar ethe subject ofTed's series in RMC, and Westerfield makes fine resin kits for the SP/T&NO/NWP etc. 36' stock cars, which were the most numerous cars of that type during the steam era, as well as for the MILW's 36' stock cars, of which there were more than 3,000. Other RRs that had large numbers of 36' stock cars were the Burlington and the C&NW, and some day it would be nice to have resin kits for those as well (the Q cars have been done in HO, but only in brass). Richard Hendrickson |
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Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
The estimable. Dr. Smith writes-
No, no, we can't be at the end of the series! Ted hasn't done HeliumBruce, I am sure that you overlooked the truly ubiquitous poultry car. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento |
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Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
Is this a new poll? If so, how about a decent styrene 36' stock car,
open or solid ended, both would be better. As in other cars, the MDC just doesn't cut it. Bill Williams |
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Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
On Apr 22, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Dean Payne wrote:
First off, cudos to Ted for this series and for his modeling<snip> I was worried when I saw the carbon black andNo, no, we can't be at the end of the series! Ted hasn't done Helium tank cars yet! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 |
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Shawn Beckert
Garth Groff wrote:
If you are asking for votes on needed cars, I would love to have aWell, gee - if we're going to get another poll going, let me suggest a GATC 8,000 or 10,000 tank car. I could use both in large quantities. Also a tank car (any builder, I don't care which) with a LARGE dome. Please, somebody... Shawn Beckert |
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