IM AT&SF stock car kits.


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I just got word that some of these kits may have been shipped with the
wrong body. As I ordered K brake I might have gotten AB bodies. How can I
tell or is it vary obvious. As you can probably tell my kits are still in
transit!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Paul Lyons
 

Well Charlie I think I am with you, but if so, I am not sure what, if any,
prototype car I can build with the kits I have in hand. I have three kits from
Andy that are suppose to be AB brake cars. However, as you describe, the ends
have no toe holes and the end grab is narrow. A trip through the Stock car
book with these spotting features and I come up Sk-Q ONLY-correct? If correct, I
had arrived at the same conclusion that there are no correct doors included in
the kit to do this car. So someone correct me here, with this combination
I(no one) can build a correct protype.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Jon Miller wrote:


I just got word that some of these kits may have been shipped with the
wrong body. As I ordered K brake I might have gotten AB bodies. How can I
tell or is it vary obvious. As you can probably tell my kits are still in
transit!
Jon, AFAIK the bodies are all the same - at least, the pre-production samples I got were all the same, and I've built models with both K and AB brakes. The locations for the AB brake mountings are marked on the inside of the floors but must be drilled out if you want the model with AB brakes. For K brakes, you mount the cylinder/reservoir at the same location where the AB cylinder goes and don't drill out the mounting holes for the AB valve and separate reservoir.

Richard Hendrickson


Andy Carlson
 

I got a phone call from sarah at Intermountain, and
she said that they had shipped out ATSF K brake
versions of the stockcar with the AB body- the
difference being the underframe has pads for the AB
brakes, so that the K brakes won't fit. She is sending
me some replacement bodies for K brake cars I have
remaining in stock. Anyone who got K brake versions
from me can call Intermountain, ask for Sarah, explain
how many K brake cars you have and she can mail you
correct bodies. IM does not want anyone to return the
incorrect bodies. THIS APPLIES TO K BRAKE VERSIONS
ONLY. thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
wrote:



On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Jon Miller wrote:


I just got word that some of these kits may
have been shipped with
the
wrong body. As I ordered K brake I might have
gotten AB bodies. How
can I
tell or is it vary obvious. As you can probably
tell my kits are
still in
transit!
Jon, AFAIK the bodies are all the same - at least,
the pre-production
samples I got were all the same, and I've built
models with both K and
AB brakes. The locations for the AB brake mountings
are marked on the
inside of the floors but must be drilled out if you
want the model with
AB brakes. For K brakes, you mount the
cylinder/reservoir at the same
location where the AB cylinder goes and don't drill
out the mounting
holes for the AB valve and separate reservoir.

Richard Hendrickson


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
Give the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






Andy Carlson
 

Intermountain's Phone number is:
800 472 2530 Ask for Sarah
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


--- Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
wrote:



On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Jon Miller wrote:


I just got word that some of these kits may
have been shipped with
the
wrong body. As I ordered K brake I might have
gotten AB bodies. How
can I
tell or is it vary obvious. As you can probably
tell my kits are
still in
transit!
Jon, AFAIK the bodies are all the same - at least,
the pre-production
samples I got were all the same, and I've built
models with both K and
AB brakes. The locations for the AB brake mountings
are marked on the
inside of the floors but must be drilled out if you
want the model with
AB brakes. For K brakes, you mount the
cylinder/reservoir at the same
location where the AB cylinder goes and don't drill
out the mounting
holes for the AB valve and separate reservoir.

Richard Hendrickson


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
Give the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






charles slater
 

Richard I got one of each from Andy, and they have different ends. The K brake ends have no toe holes and a narrow end grab iron on the right side. This end matches the Sk-Q car, except the doors they supply are for the Sk-S.
The AB brake car has an end with two toe holes and a wide grab iron on the right side. This end matches the Sk-U class cars. The underframes are the same and simply show you where to drill the mounting holes for the AB brake parts.
Hope this clears this up.
Charles Slater

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] IM AT&SF stock car kits.
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:39:50 -0700


On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Jon Miller wrote:


I just got word that some of these kits may have been shipped with
the
wrong body. As I ordered K brake I might have gotten AB bodies. How
can I
tell or is it vary obvious. As you can probably tell my kits are
still in
transit!
Jon, AFAIK the bodies are all the same - at least, the pre-production
samples I got were all the same, and I've built models with both K and
AB brakes. The locations for the AB brake mountings are marked on the
inside of the floors but must be drilled out if you want the model with
AB brakes. For K brakes, you mount the cylinder/reservoir at the same
location where the AB cylinder goes and don't drill out the mounting
holes for the AB valve and separate reservoir.

Richard Hendrickson


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Thanks Andy. I have 9 kits coming and hopefully most will be good. They
must have modified the underframe from the samples Richard got.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Looking at the photos, drawings, and roster in Frank Ellington's Santa Fe stockcar book, I think there are five variations in end detail among as many classes of Pennsylvania Car Co. stockcars. Note that these variations are NOT related to whatever brake system is under the car.

Sk-Q (convertible double deck): no toe holes, staff hand brake, short grab iron at lower right (facing end).

Sk-R (single deck): no toe holes, staff hand brake, long grab iron at lower right (facing end) spanning from corner post to diagonal brace.

Sk-S (convertible double deck): one toe hole and center grab iron under end door, Ajax hand brake, short grab iron at lower right (facing end).
Sk-T (single deck): two toe holes, Ajax hand brake, short grab iron at lower right (facing end).

Sk-U (single deck): two toe holes, Ajax hand brake, long grab iron at lower right (facing end).

I've just started on two InterMountain kits, both with AB brakes, and they have two different styles of ends. I think modifications to the kits will be required to model some of the variations shown in Frank's book.

So long,

Andy
Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@mrmag.com


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

So I guess it really looks like IM should just enclose both body types
and market it as one kit. Would save on the stock and delivery of two types
and doubt the additional body would change the cost any. The underframe mod
to work for both could probably be taken can of in text!
Could someone close to them suggest that!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Paul Lyons
 

Andy, You and some of the other Santa Fe modelers on this list have this poor
"unwashed" Espee modeler very confused when it comes to the new Intermountain
stock car kits. I have three kits, and for this conversation, I agree with
you, let's forget the manufacturer's nomenclature about AB or K brakes, as I am
quite able of putting either one on any kit. Two of the kits have castings
with no toe holes in the end and the end right side grab is short. The other kit
casting has the toe holes and a long right side end grab. After reading
Richard H's column in the latest issue of the Warbonnet I understand that the kits
do not have the correct sides to build a double deck car so that means that for
now Sk-Q and Sk-S cars are not an option. That leaves Sk-R, Sk-T and Sk-U
single deck cars that I supposedly can build prototypically correct models from
with the kits. If I read Frank Ellington's ATSF Stock Car book I readily see
where the kit with the toe holes and long right side end grab works for the Sk-T
and Sk-U cars. So far so good, but now for the kits with NO toe holes. The
photos and text in Frank's book tells me the Sk-R class does not have toe holes
in the end, and all the photos seem to show long right end grab irons, so I
don't see a match of these kits with any prototype car. To further confuse
matters the back of the Warbonnet has a color photo "...of Intermountain Sk-R class
stock car as modeled by Richard Hendrickson." WITH toe holes in the end!
HELP!!
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Paul,

Yes, Richard H. is right about the InterMountain sides being appropriate only for single-deck cars. It might be possible to modify them for the double-deck classes, by removing some slats and adding new ones, but I'm not planning to try it any time soon. I still have Sunshine kits to build for those.

On the other hand, it's easy to remove the mount for the short grab iron from the end without the toe holes - I did one car's ends last night - and then all you need to do is drill a new hole in the diagonal post for the longer grab. I'll probably add N-B-W castings too for the grab-iron bolts. Use a staff hand brake and that takes care of the Sk-R.

On the Sk-T and and U, note that the T has the short grab (Ellington page 33) and the U has the long one (Ellington page 35). There are also differences in the end doors, but the kit has both kinds so that's not a problem.

As for that model lettered as an Sk-R in the Warbonnet, I know Richard well enough, I think, to believe he'd tell us to follow prototype photos in preference to model photos. I won't say his car is wrong - he has quite a photo collection, and the Santa Fe was certainly capable of retrofitting an Sk-R to resemble a later car. However, Frank Ellington's book has photos of Sk-Rs taken in the '60s that still show no toe holes and long grabs.

So long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@mrmag.com


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I readily see
where the kit with the toe holes and long right side end grab works for the
Sk-T
and Sk-U cars. So far so good, but now for the kits with NO toe holes<
Just to make it worse on page 31 is a picture of an Sk-S with only one
toe hold<G>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Jon Miller wrote: "I readily see where the kit with the toe holes and long right side end grab works for the Sk-T and Sk-U cars. So far so good, but now for the kits with NO toe holes. Just to make it worse on page 31 is a picture of an Sk-S with only one toe hold."

Hi Jon,

The kit with no toe holes can be an Sk-R if you remove the separate grab iron mount on the right side of the end, substitute a long grab, and use a staff hand brake.

The Sk-T has a short end grab, so to model that car you need to add a grab iron support to the end with toe holes, fill the grab iron hole in the diagonal post and remove the associated bolt head, and use an Ajax hand brake.

The Sk-S is a convertible double-deck car. Anyone who can modify the InterMountain sides for that will find filling one toe hole and adding a grab iron well within their capabilities!

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@mrmag.com


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Now that we see a lot of folks are ordering/buying the stock cars does
anyone want to make a mass order of Acurail trucks? I checked with my
dealer and apparently the internet pricing ($99.98 for 100, no wheels) is
only good for direct orders!
My last order will be short and I only ordered 9 kits. I'm sure many of
the Santa Fe folks ordered a lot more.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Paul Lyons
 

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the response and confirming that reworking the end grab and using a staff hand brake will result in a Sk-R. However, my basic question seems to still not be coming through, so I will try one more time to state it as clearly as I can. Question: Are new Santa Fe Intermountain stock car kits right out of the box DEAD ON accurate for any Sk series car? If the answer is YES, would someone please provide me with which kit matches which prototype car. If the answer is NO as I suspect, and you have to use prototype photos and do minor kit bashing to get an accurate model that is fine, I just want to understand. My confusion stems from the fact that I thought Intermountain was originally going to make one kit for each Sk class car similiar to Sunshine(total of 5). I suspect Richard Hendrickson or Charlie Slater probably have the answer to my question and can clear up the confusion.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@mrmag.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:26:08 -0500
Subject: RE: [STMFC] IM AT&SF stock car kits.


Hi Paul,

Yes, Richard H. is right about the InterMountain sides being appropriate only
for single-deck cars. It might be possible to modify them for the double-deck
classes, by removing some slats and adding new ones, but I'm not planning to try
it any time soon. I still have Sunshine kits to build for those.

On the other hand, it's easy to remove the mount for the short grab iron from
the end without the toe holes - I did one car's ends last night - and then all
you need to do is drill a new hole in the diagonal post for the longer grab.
I'll probably add N-B-W castings too for the grab-iron bolts. Use a staff hand
brake and that takes care of the Sk-R.

On the Sk-T and and U, note that the T has the short grab (Ellington page 33)
and the U has the long one (Ellington page 35). There are also differences in
the end doors, but the kit has both kinds so that's not a problem.

As for that model lettered as an Sk-R in the Warbonnet, I know Richard well
enough, I think, to believe he'd tell us to follow prototype photos in
preference to model photos. I won't say his car is wrong - he has quite a photo
collection, and the Santa Fe was certainly capable of retrofitting an Sk-R to
resemble a later car. However, Frank Ellington's book has photos of Sk-Rs taken
in the '60s that still show no toe holes and long grabs.

So long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@mrmag.com









Yahoo! Groups Links


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Paul,

If that's the question, here's the answer: The kit with the Ajax hand brake, toe holes, and long grab iron is correct for an Sk-U just as it comes.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@mrmag.com


Paul Lyons
 

THANK YOU Charlie, It now all makes sense, excrpt Richard H's Sk-R model on
the back of the Warbonnet with toe holes. I am sure I will get that answer in
short order!
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Well just received my cars today. Forget the comments on the trucks as
they are included with the kits! It turned out all 9 cars had the wrong
ends-casting and a call to Sara fixed everything.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Paul Lyons
 

John, This is why I keep my tread going so strongly on this subject. I did
not want to have to send a bunch of floor/end sprues back to Intermountain
because in fact they are NOT wrong, they just need the right side end grab iron
modified. When all of this sinks in, like it did with me, you will be buying the
pieces you returned back because you are gonna want some Sk-R's I promise.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Paul Lyons
 

Jon, Sorry for misspelling your name. Fingers are faster than brain this time
of night.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA