Options for P2K type 21 in early 1950s


oliver
 

Having picked up a couple of six packs of the Proto 2K type 21 tank cars
in both 8k and 10K versions on sale, I'm now faced with need to strip,
repaint and decal for appropriate common prototypes still rolling in
California in the mid 1950s to balance the look of my small fleet(I
don't need anymore flashy paint jobs). Given that UTLX had so many
tank cars during this time I was wondering if these would be
appropriate? Any other "plain jane" options for these cars ie:SHPX or??

Thanks
Stefan Lerché


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Stefan Lerché writes:
Having picked up a couple of six packs of the Proto 2K type 21 tank
cars
in both 8k and 10K versions on sale, I'm now faced with need to strip,
repaint and decal for appropriate common prototypes still rolling in
California in the mid 1950s to balance the look of my small fleet(I
don't need anymore flashy paint jobs). Given that UTLX had so many
tank cars during this time I was wondering if these would be
appropriate? Any other "plain jane" options for these cars ie:SHPX or??
As they are AC&F prototypes, SHPX is more suitable, though I
think there were a few cars inherited by UTL which were AC&F cars like
these. For other leasing companies buying AC&F cars, see Kaminski's
tank car book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Stefan Lerch� writes:

Having picked up a couple of six packs of the Proto 2K type 21 tank
cars
in both 8k and 10K versions on sale, I'm now faced with need to strip,
repaint and decal for appropriate common prototypes still rolling in
California in the mid 1950s to balance the look of my small fleet(I
don't need anymore flashy paint jobs). Given that UTLX had so many
tank cars during this time I was wondering if these would be
appropriate? Any other "plain jane" options for these cars ie:SHPX or??
Tony Thompson suggests:

As they are AC&F prototypes, SHPX is more suitable, though I
think there were a few cars inherited by UTL which were AC&F cars like
these. For other leasing companies buying AC&F cars, see Kaminski's
tank car book.
On December 31st, 1954, there were 158,112 Tank Cars in the US of which 6,929 were Railroad-owned and 151,183 privately owned. General American owned 48,184 (30.5% of 158,112), UTLX owned 42,121 (26.6%) and SHPX owned 12,071 (7.6%).

As Tony suggests, GATX and UTLX inherited some AC&F design cars as they absorbed other private car fleets.

The distribution of tank cars, however, was largely dependent upon who leased the cars and where were they sent. Tank cars serving an On-Line industry could be quite restricted. UTLX was just getting into the leasing chemical tank cars in the mid-1950's so most of their business was with petroleum companies. GATX's, whose fleet included TCX Texaco cars, and SHPX's lessees were more diverse serving both the petroleum and chemical industries, and GATX was the lessor for Armour, Proctor & Gamble, Swift and, no doubt other non-petroleum companies. If the tank cars were meant for through traffic exclusively, then perhaps any "plain jane" car owner would suffice.

Tim Gilbert


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 6, 2005, at 5:16 AM, Tim Gilbert wrote, responding to Stefan
Lerché's inquiry:

Tony Thompson suggests:

As they are AC&F prototypes, SHPX is more suitable, though I
think there were a few cars inherited by UTL which were AC&F cars like
these. For other leasing companies buying AC&F cars, see Kaminski's
tank car book.
On December 31st, 1954, there were 158,112 Tank Cars in the US of which
6,929 were Railroad-owned and 151,183 privately owned. General American
owned 48,184 (30.5% of 158,112), UTLX owned 42,121 (26.6%) and SHPX
owned 12,071 (7.6%).

As Tony suggests, GATX and UTLX inherited some AC&F design cars as they
absorbed other private car fleets.

The distribution of tank cars, however, was largely dependent upon who
leased the cars and where were they sent. Tank cars serving an On-Line
industry could be quite restricted. UTLX was just getting into the
leasing chemical tank cars in the mid-1950's so most of their business
was with petroleum companies. GATX's, whose fleet included TCX Texaco
cars, and SHPX's lessees were more diverse serving both the petroleum
and chemical industries, and GATX was the lessor for Armour, Proctor &
Gamble, Swift and, no doubt other non-petroleum companies. If the tank
cars were meant for through traffic exclusively, then perhaps any
"plain
jane" car owner would suffice.
Adding to Tony's and Tim's observations, I would point out that while
both UTLX and GATX operated AC&F Type 21s which they acquired second
hand (and L-L produced models lettered for both), the number of such
cars was very small compared to the overall size of the UTLX and GATX
fleets, which consisted mostly of cars built to the two companies' own
designs. A model tank car fleet representative of the cars that would
have been seen in Calif. during the steam era needs a variety of cars
other than AC&F Type 21s (e.g., UTLX X-3s, '20s vintage GATX, Standard
Tank Car Co., etc.) At present we don't have models of these in HO
scale, but it appears likely that models of some of them will be coming
in the future.

As for Type 21s, both Union Oil Co. of Calif. (UOCX) and Shell of
Calif. (SCCX) had sizable fleets of 8K gal. cars (L-L offered correctly
lettered models of both, but some of the Shell cars had reporting marks
and numbers only, without the Shell emblem). 10K four-course Type 21s
were less common on the west coast. About the only examples I can
think of offhand were a small number of them owned by Chartrand's Traffic Service (CHAX 102-109) and though Ted Culotta was making noises
about producing decals for these cars, that will have to wait until
after he has completed his coast-to-coast move.

Richard Hendrickson


oliver
 

Thanks for the help Tony, Tim, and Richard. It would seem that at
least the 8K cars would best be painted in SPHX lessee schemes or for
UOCX and Shell.

Would the UOCX cars have been black with the "76" heralds by his time
or could one keep the old silver on black spelled out name lettering?
What about for Shell?. I have some lettered for RPX without a logo and
others with logo. I wonder if these are salvageable?

cheers
Stefan Lerché
Duncan, BC




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@o...> wrote:
On Jun 6, 2005, at 5:16 AM, Tim Gilbert wrote, responding to Stefan
Lerché's inquiry:

Tony Thompson suggests:

As they are AC&F prototypes, SHPX is more suitable, though I
think there were a few cars inherited by UTL which were AC&F cars
like
these. For other leasing companies buying AC&F cars, see Kaminski's
tank car book.
On December 31st, 1954, there were 158,112 Tank Cars in the US of
which
6,929 were Railroad-owned and 151,183 privately owned. General
American
owned 48,184 (30.5% of 158,112), UTLX owned 42,121 (26.6%) and SHPX
owned 12,071 (7.6%).

As Tony suggests, GATX and UTLX inherited some AC&F design cars as
they
absorbed other private car fleets.

The distribution of tank cars, however, was largely dependent upon who
leased the cars and where were they sent. Tank cars serving an On-Line
industry could be quite restricted. UTLX was just getting into the
leasing chemical tank cars in the mid-1950's so most of their business
was with petroleum companies. GATX's, whose fleet included TCX Texaco
cars, and SHPX's lessees were more diverse serving both the petroleum
and chemical industries, and GATX was the lessor for Armour, Proctor &
Gamble, Swift and, no doubt other non-petroleum companies. If the tank
cars were meant for through traffic exclusively, then perhaps any
"plain
jane" car owner would suffice.
Adding to Tony's and Tim's observations, I would point out that while
both UTLX and GATX operated AC&F Type 21s which they acquired second
hand (and L-L produced models lettered for both), the number of such
cars was very small compared to the overall size of the UTLX and GATX
fleets, which consisted mostly of cars built to the two companies' own
designs. A model tank car fleet representative of the cars that would
have been seen in Calif. during the steam era needs a variety of cars
other than AC&F Type 21s (e.g., UTLX X-3s, '20s vintage GATX, Standard
Tank Car Co., etc.) At present we don't have models of these in HO
scale, but it appears likely that models of some of them will be coming
in the future.

As for Type 21s, both Union Oil Co. of Calif. (UOCX) and Shell of
Calif. (SCCX) had sizable fleets of 8K gal. cars (L-L offered correctly
lettered models of both, but some of the Shell cars had reporting marks
and numbers only, without the Shell emblem). 10K four-course Type 21s
were less common on the west coast. About the only examples I can
think of offhand were a small number of them owned by Chartrand's
Traffic Service (CHAX 102-109) and though Ted Culotta was making noises
about producing decals for these cars, that will have to wait until
after he has completed his coast-to-coast move.

Richard Hendrickson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 6, 2005, at 1:49 PM, stefanelaine wrote:

Thanks for the help Tony, Tim, and Richard. It would seem that at
least the 8K cars would best be painted in SPHX lessee schemes or for
UOCX and Shell.

Would the UOCX cars have been black with the "76" heralds by his time
or could one keep the old silver on black spelled out name lettering?
What about for Shell?. I have some lettered for RPX without a logo and
others with logo. I wonder if these are salvageable?
Herald were not used on black UOCX cars; alum. lettering on black was the rule, at least in the early to mid-1950s. The RPX cars went to Shell of Calif. during WW II and were re-lettered SCCX. Some SCCX cars had the Shell logo, others didn't.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Would the UOCX cars have been black with the "76" heralds by his time
or could one keep the old silver on black spelled out name lettering?
Black cars, but I don't know for sure about silver vs. white lettering.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:35 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Would the UOCX cars have been black with the "76" heralds by his time
or could one keep the old silver on black spelled out name lettering?
Black cars, but I don't know for sure about silver vs. white
lettering.
UOCX lettering was, in fact, aluminum on black. Also true of a number of other tank car operators, though it's difficult (often impossible) to tell the difference in a B/W photo.

Richard Hendrickson