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DL&W USRA Style cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

While looking up information on the LNE X29 style cars, I came across a
photo of DL&W 47180 in the April 1987 issue Model Railroading. According to
the caption the DL&W had 1000 cars, 47000-47999, of USRA style 40' box cars.
My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends? They look similar, however, Al Westerfield
doesn't offer his 2900 series NYC model with DL&W decals, so I imagine there
are differences.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:
"While looking up information on the LNE X29 style cars, I came across a
photo of DL&W 47180 in the April 1987 issue Model Railroading. According to
the caption the DL&W had 1000 cars, 47000-47999, of USRA style 40' box cars.
My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends? They look similar, however, Al Westerfield
doesn't offer his 2900 series NYC model with DL&W decals, so I imagine there
are differences."

Brian, I've uploaded a side-by-side of the DL&W and NYC prototype cars in
the files section at STMFPH:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/
The file is titled "DL&W - NYC USRA-design steel boxcar comparison".

Unfortunately, I don't have photos of these cars with better view of the
ends or roof, so I'm not sure if there are significant differences or not;
however, from these views, it certainly looks like the DL&W car can be
bashed from Westerfield 2951. (Hopefully, Al - or Mike DelVecchio - will
chime in soon...)


Ben Hom
Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side sills are
different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W ends are
'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Hayes wrote:
"Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side sills are
different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W ends are
'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'."

That was my first thought on the ends; however, the Westerfield NYC
Dreadnaught end model photos show an 'outie' end:
http://www.westerfield.biz/it230023.htm

That's why I wanted better end photos before making a definitive call on
these cars.


Ben Hom
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Jim, not so sure on the ends, could be the angle ofthe pictures. I'll agree
with the doors. Of course the DL&W doors could have been replacements since
we are looking at pictures taken about 18 years apart. Builders photo for the
NYC car and a DL&W car reweighed at Keyser Valley in 1947 (can't tell if the
month is a nine or not)

Brian Carlson

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:17:23 -0700, Jim and Lisa Hayes wrote

Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side
sills are different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W
ends are 'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'.
James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends?
The DL&W cars are basically copies of the late NYC cars except for the ARA underframe and minor items like tackboards and door hardware.

David Thompson
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:
"Of course the DL&W doors could have been replacements since we are looking
at pictures taken about 18 years apart."

The doors on the DL&W car are the original doors, as confirmed by this
builder's photo:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/X29-types/DL&W-xm-37-cy
c.jpg


David Thompson added:
"The DL&W cars are basically copies of the late NYC cars except for the ARA
underframe and minor items like tackboards and door hardware."

David, thanks! I suspected that about the underframe, but wasn't sure. Now
we've got enough to do a kitbash from the Westerfield 2951 kit - which
should shake out the rest of the information once it's printed. ;-)


Ben Hom
Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 16, 2005, at 2:17 PM, James D Thompson wrote:

My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends?
The DL&W cars are basically copies of the late NYC cars except for the
ARA underframe and minor items like tackboards and door hardware.
Say, what? The Dreadnaught ends on the Lackawanna cars, on which the outer edges of the corrugations look as if they were filed flat, were absolutely distinctive and unlike the ends used on any of the NYC cars. I have a photo which shows this clearly.

Richard Hendrickson
Tim O'Connor
 

The NYC end is an 'outie' ... The illusion is created by the roof
overhang; and also because the DL&W end is bowed outwards from a
shifted load (extremely common on prototype cars, too bad it's hard
to model with our rigid plastics and resins) which exaggerates its
appearance compared to the NYC car.

Tim O'Connor

At 04:25 PM 7/16/2005, you wrote:
Jim Hayes wrote:
"Looking at the pictures I can see that the doors, ends, and side sills are
different between the 2 cars. In technical terms, the DL&W ends are
'outies'; the NYC ends are 'inies'."

That was my first thought on the ends; however, the Westerfield NYC
Dreadnaught end model photos show an 'outie' end:
http://www.westerfield.biz/it230023.htm

That's why I wanted better end photos before making a definitive call on
these cars.

Ben Hom
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Richard, any chance you can post the photo? Also any reason why the
dreadnaughts would be filled flat? I can guess it was a strength/stiffness
issue, but I've never seen any other cars with that style end.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W USRA Style cars


On Jul 16, 2005, at 2:17 PM, James D Thompson wrote:

My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of
NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends?
The DL&W cars are basically copies of the late NYC cars except for
the
ARA underframe and minor items like tackboards and door hardware.
Say, what? The Dreadnaught ends on the Lackawanna cars, on which the
outer edges of the corrugations look as if they were filed flat, were
absolutely distinctive and unlike the ends used on any of the NYC cars.
I have a photo which shows this clearly.

Richard Hendrickson




Yahoo! Groups Links
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Ok, I found some more info on the DL&W cars. Sad thing was it was in my
files, but I forgot.
DL&W 47000-47999 built 1930, by both ACF and Magor
Three pictures from the side, I don't have a good view of the end.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W USRA Style cars


Richard, any chance you can post the photo? Also any reason why the
dreadnaughts would be filled flat? I can guess it was a strength/stiffness
issue, but I've never seen any other cars with that style end.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W USRA Style cars


On Jul 16, 2005, at 2:17 PM, James D Thompson wrote:

My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of
NYC
USRA cars with dreadnaught ends?
The DL&W cars are basically copies of the late NYC cars except for
the
ARA underframe and minor items like tackboards and door hardware.
Say, what? The Dreadnaught ends on the Lackawanna cars, on which the
outer edges of the corrugations look as if they were filed flat, were
absolutely distinctive and unlike the ends used on any of the NYC cars.
I have a photo which shows this clearly.

Richard Hendrickson




Yahoo! Groups Links








Yahoo! Groups Links
Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

I'm aware of these cars because Mike Delvecchio called them to my attention as soon as I issued the NYC cars way back in 1986. My answer then as now is that they are just too different for a quick kitbash to another kit that wouldn't sell enough to warrant the work. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: James D Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 4:17 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: DL&W USRA Style cars



>My question is how similar are the DL&W cars to the 1927-28 order of NYC
>USRA cars with dreadnaught ends?
Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 16, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Richard, any chance you can post the photo? Also any reason why the
dreadnaughts would be filled flat? I can guess it was a strength/stiffness
issue, but I've never seen any other cars with that style end.
I've seen a couple of other examples from the late '20s of Dreadnaught ends with the outer ends of the corrugations stamped flat (e.g., some - but not all - Rock Island 38200-40699 series single sheathed box cars). However, I don't know why the ends were made that way. In any event, I won't try to post the photo to the STMFC files because the last time I tried to do that I spent more than half an hour at it and didn't succeed. However, I'll gladly post it to you and you can deal with Yahoo.

Richard Hendrickson
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