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Retail coal dealers, brand names and railroads
PBowers <waiting@...>
As this is a bit OT for this list, I've forwarded this info on to the Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups group where the discussion better fits and will likely have more response.
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Mark Heiden
Hello Ian,
Thanks for the reply. I've done some more research since I posted
this query, and I've come up with the following:
1. Did dealers tend to carry a single brand, or was it common to
carry more than one?
of the dealers I've been able to locate seemed to carry one brand
only. Only one dealer carried two brands.
2. Were there independent coal dealers, who would simply carry
whatever brand gave them the best deal at the time?
carrying only one brand.
3. What railroads were connected, through ownership, mines located
on-line, etc, with the following brands:
Company) was affiliated with the DL&W, but the photos I've found of
the Huber Colliery (home of Blue Coal; more about that later) show
Reading and a stray N&W hoppers. Were there car-pooling agreements?
Jeddo-Highland coal may have travelled in Lehigh Valley hoppers.
Two Jeddo-Highland breakers were served by the LV in the late 1960s:
Jeddo #5 was on the Freeland Branch, and Jeddo #7 was on the
Tomhicken Branch. Were these branches always LV, or were they
acquired from another railroad after the steam era?
Lackawanna Coal was affiliated with the Delaware & Hudson through
the Hudson Coal Company.
Susquehanna Anthracite may have travelled in Pennsylvania hoppers.
This company had an interesting history. It was originally owned by
the PRR, but sold to the M.A. Hanna Company by 1917. The breaker
was originally (around 1870) served by the PRR, by the Erie sometime
before 1900, then the D&H after 1900, then by the PRR again. Having
said all this, I'm not entirely sure that I've linked the brand name
to the correct company.
Morgan Anthracite might be an old brand name. This is pure
speculation, but the Susquehanna Anthracite breaker was located in
Glen Lyon, PA, originally named Morgantown. Morgan Anthracite may
have been the name this coal was marketed under prior to the sale to
the M.A. Hanna Company.
As for the others, I've found little or nothing. Consol Cavalier
appears to be a corporate name as well as a brand name. I discovered
a picture of a bituminous breaker in Kentucky with the Consol
Cavalier name emblazoned on it. More speculation, but Olga
Pocahantas may have travelled in Southern hoppers. The name
suggests the coal originated in the Virginia area, and there was a
small deposit of anthracite or semi-anthracite in western Virginia.
There's a photo in one of your books (might be the Palmerston book)
of a couple of Southern hoppers in Mildmay, Ontario. The town had a
coal dealer, but it also had some industries that may have received
bituminous coal.
6. Were there any spatial patterns evident in specific brand
States.
breaker for the Glen Alden Coal Company. Glen Alden purchased
several mines and breakers in the Nanticoke, Pennsylvania, area in
the 1920s and 1930s. The Huber breaker was built in the late 1930s,
and allowed Glen Alden to close many smaller, older breakers.
Subsequently, all mine-run coal was shipped to the Huber breaker for
cleaning and sorting. It appears that all of the Glen Alden mines
were located on CNJ branches, so all raw coal travelled in CNJ
hoppers.
Mark Heiden
Thanks for the reply. I've done some more research since I posted
this query, and I've come up with the following:
1. Did dealers tend to carry a single brand, or was it common to
carry more than one?
I haven't come across any definitive answer for this question. Most
Allandale Lumber & Fuel Co.--"Old Company's Lehigh" and "Olga
Pocahontas"
Barrie Fuel & Supply--local supplier of "Blue Coal" (DL&W
Anthracite), also Cavalier stoker coal
Cameron & Ellis--local distributor for "Lehigh Valley Anthracite"
Lewis & Robertson--Cavalier stoker coal
Sarjeant Co.--"Famous Reading Anthracite" and Cavalier stoker coal
J. G. Scott--"Famous Reading Anthracite"
of the dealers I've been able to locate seemed to carry one brand
only. Only one dealer carried two brands.
2. Were there independent coal dealers, who would simply carry
whatever brand gave them the best deal at the time?
businessmen
The coal dealers cited above were all independent local
(as the majority of the yards were). However, they could act as aI've come to the same conclusion, with the majority of dealers
local agent (some exclusively, it would appear) for one or more
brands.
carrying only one brand.
3. What railroads were connected, through ownership, mines located
on-line, etc, with the following brands:
This one was rather interesting. Blue Coal (Glen Alden CoalBlue Coal (Glen Alden Coal Company)DL&WCavalier Stoker Coalunknown, off the top of my head
Consol Cavalier
Red Jacket Lump
Famous Harlan Seam Stoker Coal
Famous Reading AnthraciteRDGSterling CoalD&HLackawanna Coalunknown
Jeddo-Highland CoalLehigh Valley AnthraciteLVMorgan AnthraciteunknownOld Company's LehighL&NEOlga Pocahontasunknown
Patsy Home Stoker Coal
Susquehanna Anthracite
(some of these may be Canadian brands)
Company) was affiliated with the DL&W, but the photos I've found of
the Huber Colliery (home of Blue Coal; more about that later) show
Reading and a stray N&W hoppers. Were there car-pooling agreements?
Jeddo-Highland coal may have travelled in Lehigh Valley hoppers.
Two Jeddo-Highland breakers were served by the LV in the late 1960s:
Jeddo #5 was on the Freeland Branch, and Jeddo #7 was on the
Tomhicken Branch. Were these branches always LV, or were they
acquired from another railroad after the steam era?
Lackawanna Coal was affiliated with the Delaware & Hudson through
the Hudson Coal Company.
Susquehanna Anthracite may have travelled in Pennsylvania hoppers.
This company had an interesting history. It was originally owned by
the PRR, but sold to the M.A. Hanna Company by 1917. The breaker
was originally (around 1870) served by the PRR, by the Erie sometime
before 1900, then the D&H after 1900, then by the PRR again. Having
said all this, I'm not entirely sure that I've linked the brand name
to the correct company.
Morgan Anthracite might be an old brand name. This is pure
speculation, but the Susquehanna Anthracite breaker was located in
Glen Lyon, PA, originally named Morgantown. Morgan Anthracite may
have been the name this coal was marketed under prior to the sale to
the M.A. Hanna Company.
As for the others, I've found little or nothing. Consol Cavalier
appears to be a corporate name as well as a brand name. I discovered
a picture of a bituminous breaker in Kentucky with the Consol
Cavalier name emblazoned on it. More speculation, but Olga
Pocahantas may have travelled in Southern hoppers. The name
suggests the coal originated in the Virginia area, and there was a
small deposit of anthracite or semi-anthracite in western Virginia.
There's a photo in one of your books (might be the Palmerston book)
of a couple of Southern hoppers in Mildmay, Ontario. The town had a
coal dealer, but it also had some industries that may have received
bituminous coal.
6. Were there any spatial patterns evident in specific brand
dealer distribution (eg - eastern Pennsylvania was mostly Brand A,while southern New York was Brand B)?
I haven't found any evident spatial patterns in the eastern United
Not evident here in Southern Ontario. Keep in mind that virtually
all our anthracite came from the same small geographical area--
Eastern Pennsylvania.
States.
Want a good origin for CNJ and/or CNP (Central Railroad ofThe Huber Colliery, in Ashley, Pennsylvania, acted as a regional
Pennsylvania--same company) hopper car loads of anthracite?
Enter "Huber Colliery, Ashley, PA" on your waybills.
breaker for the Glen Alden Coal Company. Glen Alden purchased
several mines and breakers in the Nanticoke, Pennsylvania, area in
the 1920s and 1930s. The Huber breaker was built in the late 1930s,
and allowed Glen Alden to close many smaller, older breakers.
Subsequently, all mine-run coal was shipped to the Huber breaker for
cleaning and sorting. It appears that all of the Glen Alden mines
were located on CNJ branches, so all raw coal travelled in CNJ
hoppers.
Mark Heiden
Ian Wilson
--- In STMFC@..., "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@h...> wrote:
for your questions. There were six coal dealers at the time. These
are only the brands listed in the yellow pages; there may have been
more:
Allandale Lumber & Fuel Co.--"Old Company's Lehigh" and "Olga
Pocahontas"
Barrie Fuel & Supply--local supplier of "Blue Coal" (DL&W
Anthracite), also Cavalier stoker coal
Cameron & Ellis--local distributor for "Lehigh Valley Anthracite"
Lewis & Robertson--Cavalier stoker coal
Sarjeant Co.--"Famous Reading Anthracite" and Cavalier stoker coal
J. G. Scott--"Famous Reading Anthracite"
(as the majority of the yards were). However, they could act as a
local agent (some exclusively, it would appear) for one or more
brands.
(e.g. dyed coal and disc-like tags inserted into the coal).
all our anthracite came from the same small geographical area--
Eastern Pennsylvania.
A couple more nuggets for you and anyone interested in anthracite
coal traffic. A case study of the local coal dealers in Hespeler,
Ontario shows that 77 carloads of anthracite were received among
them over the year from July 1949 to June 1950. Of these, 41 loads,
or more than half, were received in the warm weather months from May
to September. While hard coal was still a primary residential
heating fuel, the railroads, coal companies and coal dealers did
their best to move the coal year round, as it would be impossible to
move the anthracite during the heating season alone (there simply
were not enough cars).
Want a good origin for CNJ and/or CNP (Central Railroad of
Pennsylvania--same company) hopper car loads of anthracite?
Enter "Huber Colliery, Ashley, PA" on your waybills.
Cheers,
Ian Wilson
______________
Canadian Branchline Miniatures
Box 2565, Orillia, ON L3V 7B1
http://www.canadianbranchline.com
mailto:ian@...
Publishers of books on CNR steam operations in Ontario during the
1950s
Hello everyone,dealers
I've been doing some research on retail coal dealers that were
located on the Unadilla Valley Railway in south central New York.,
In the process I have come up with a number of general questions
concerning coal dealers, brand names and what railroad's hoppers
would serve those dealers. Ian Wilson's articles on retail
provided some answers, but also generated question. These articlesMark, I'm going to use Barrie, Ontario circa 1947 as a case study
can be found at:
http://www.canadianbranchline.com/retailcoal.htm
http://www.canadianbranchline.com/twocoal.htm
So, my questions are:
1. Did dealers tend to carry a single brand, or was it common to
carry more than one?
for your questions. There were six coal dealers at the time. These
are only the brands listed in the yellow pages; there may have been
more:
Allandale Lumber & Fuel Co.--"Old Company's Lehigh" and "Olga
Pocahontas"
Barrie Fuel & Supply--local supplier of "Blue Coal" (DL&W
Anthracite), also Cavalier stoker coal
Cameron & Ellis--local distributor for "Lehigh Valley Anthracite"
Lewis & Robertson--Cavalier stoker coal
Sarjeant Co.--"Famous Reading Anthracite" and Cavalier stoker coal
J. G. Scott--"Famous Reading Anthracite"
The coal dealers cited above were all independent local businessmen
2. Were there independent coal dealers, who would simply carry
whatever brand gave them the best deal at the time?
(as the majority of the yards were). However, they could act as a
local agent (some exclusively, it would appear) for one or more
brands.
DL&W
3. What railroads were connected, through ownership, mines located
on-line, etc, with the following brands:
Blue Coal (Glen Alden Coal Company)
Cavalier Stoker Coalunknown, off the top of my head
Consol Cavalier
Red Jacket Lump
Famous Harlan Seam Stoker Coal
Famous Reading AnthraciteRDG
Sterling CoalD&H
Lackawanna Coalunknown
Jeddo-Highland Coal
Lehigh Valley AnthraciteLV
Morgan Anthraciteunknown
Old Company's LehighL&NE
Olga Pocahontasunknown
Patsy Home Stoker Coal
Susquehanna Anthracite
(some of these may be Canadian brands)
Don't know; likely a "non-applicable" here in Southern Ontario
4. Did railroads offer incentives to dealers to buy coal from on-
line sources?
The coal companies did their best to foster this with gimmickry
5. Was there any appreciable brand loyalty amongst consumers or
dealers?
(e.g. dyed coal and disc-like tags inserted into the coal).
dealer
6. Were there any spatial patterns evident in specific brand
distribution (eg - eastern Pennsylvania was mostly Brand A, whileNot evident here in Southern Ontario. Keep in mind that virtually
southern New York was Brand B)?
all our anthracite came from the same small geographical area--
Eastern Pennsylvania.
Whew! That's a lot to ask in one go, but any insights would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark Heiden
A couple more nuggets for you and anyone interested in anthracite
coal traffic. A case study of the local coal dealers in Hespeler,
Ontario shows that 77 carloads of anthracite were received among
them over the year from July 1949 to June 1950. Of these, 41 loads,
or more than half, were received in the warm weather months from May
to September. While hard coal was still a primary residential
heating fuel, the railroads, coal companies and coal dealers did
their best to move the coal year round, as it would be impossible to
move the anthracite during the heating season alone (there simply
were not enough cars).
Want a good origin for CNJ and/or CNP (Central Railroad of
Pennsylvania--same company) hopper car loads of anthracite?
Enter "Huber Colliery, Ashley, PA" on your waybills.
Cheers,
Ian Wilson
______________
Canadian Branchline Miniatures
Box 2565, Orillia, ON L3V 7B1
http://www.canadianbranchline.com
mailto:ian@...
Publishers of books on CNR steam operations in Ontario during the
1950s
raildata@...
The anthracite coal companies (and railroads) constantly worked on the
problem of the seasonal fluctuations in the market for coal. The main incentive was
price, it being much cheaper to buy coal during the summer months.
I can recal my Dad building a coal bin under the front proch in Scranton that
would hold 20 tons of anthracite, so he could buy it in the summer at low
prices and have enough for the whole winter.
During the summer months the miners were laid off as well as railroad crews.
Every siding and yard was crammed with empty hopper cars (which I thought was
great since us kids got to climb all over and explore them).
The railroad compnies invested large sums into coal storage facilities where
the material could be stored until demand picked up but this was expensive and
really never worked out. Not could industrial customers be convinced to
invest in coal storage facilities.
Truly amazing the amount of capital invested by today's standards. The real
book on the coal industry has yet to be written; whether for the anthracite or
bituminous industry. It was every bit as complex as the perishible fruit
indutry although in a different way. The popular concept of you dig (dug) the
stuff out of the ground and dump it into hopper cars is way off the mark!
Chuck Y
Boulder CO
problem of the seasonal fluctuations in the market for coal. The main incentive was
price, it being much cheaper to buy coal during the summer months.
I can recal my Dad building a coal bin under the front proch in Scranton that
would hold 20 tons of anthracite, so he could buy it in the summer at low
prices and have enough for the whole winter.
During the summer months the miners were laid off as well as railroad crews.
Every siding and yard was crammed with empty hopper cars (which I thought was
great since us kids got to climb all over and explore them).
The railroad compnies invested large sums into coal storage facilities where
the material could be stored until demand picked up but this was expensive and
really never worked out. Not could industrial customers be convinced to
invest in coal storage facilities.
Truly amazing the amount of capital invested by today's standards. The real
book on the coal industry has yet to be written; whether for the anthracite or
bituminous industry. It was every bit as complex as the perishible fruit
indutry although in a different way. The popular concept of you dig (dug) the
stuff out of the ground and dump it into hopper cars is way off the mark!
Chuck Y
Boulder CO
Mark Heiden
Hello everyone,
I've been doing some research on retail coal dealers that were
located on the Unadilla Valley Railway in south central New York.,
In the process I have come up with a number of general questions
concerning coal dealers, brand names and what railroad's hoppers
would serve those dealers. Ian Wilson's articles on retail dealers
provided some answers, but also generated question. These articles
can be found at:
http://www.canadianbranchline.com/retailcoal.htm
http://www.canadianbranchline.com/twocoal.htm
So, my questions are:
1. Did dealers tend to carry a single brand, or was it common to
carry more than one?
2. Were there independent coal dealers, who would simply carry
whatever brand gave them the best deal at the time?
3. What railroads were connected, through ownership, mines located
on-line, etc, with the following brands:
Blue Coal (Glen Alden Coal Company)
Cavalier Stoker Coal
Consol Cavalier
Red Jacket Lump
Famous Harlan Seam Stoker Coal
Famous Reading Anthracite
Sterling Coal
Lackawanna Coal
Jeddo-Highland Coal
Lehigh Valley Anthracite
Morgan Anthracite
Old Company's Lehigh
Olga Pocahontas
Patsy Home Stoker Coal
Susquehanna Anthracite
(some of these may be Canadian brands)
4. Did railroads offer incentives to dealers to buy coal from on-
line sources?
5. Was there any appreciable brand loyalty amongst consumers or
dealers?
6. Were there any spatial patterns evident in specific brand dealer
distribution (eg - eastern Pennsylvania was mostly Brand A, while
southern New York was Brand B)?
Whew! That's a lot to ask in one go, but any insights would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark Heiden
I've been doing some research on retail coal dealers that were
located on the Unadilla Valley Railway in south central New York.,
In the process I have come up with a number of general questions
concerning coal dealers, brand names and what railroad's hoppers
would serve those dealers. Ian Wilson's articles on retail dealers
provided some answers, but also generated question. These articles
can be found at:
http://www.canadianbranchline.com/retailcoal.htm
http://www.canadianbranchline.com/twocoal.htm
So, my questions are:
1. Did dealers tend to carry a single brand, or was it common to
carry more than one?
2. Were there independent coal dealers, who would simply carry
whatever brand gave them the best deal at the time?
3. What railroads were connected, through ownership, mines located
on-line, etc, with the following brands:
Blue Coal (Glen Alden Coal Company)
Cavalier Stoker Coal
Consol Cavalier
Red Jacket Lump
Famous Harlan Seam Stoker Coal
Famous Reading Anthracite
Sterling Coal
Lackawanna Coal
Jeddo-Highland Coal
Lehigh Valley Anthracite
Morgan Anthracite
Old Company's Lehigh
Olga Pocahontas
Patsy Home Stoker Coal
Susquehanna Anthracite
(some of these may be Canadian brands)
4. Did railroads offer incentives to dealers to buy coal from on-
line sources?
5. Was there any appreciable brand loyalty amongst consumers or
dealers?
6. Were there any spatial patterns evident in specific brand dealer
distribution (eg - eastern Pennsylvania was mostly Brand A, while
southern New York was Brand B)?
Whew! That's a lot to ask in one go, but any insights would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark Heiden