Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks


Brian Termunde
 

In a message dated 7/26/2005 11:04:12 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
thecitrusbelt@... writes:

My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?


--> Although I don't know for sure, my understanding is that adding salt
would have made temperatures too low for produce. But I would also welcome any
further info too!


Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

Railroads sometimes added salt to the ice in ice bunker refrigerator
cars to achieve lower load temperatures. John H. White's book, The
Great Yellow Fleet, mentions on Page 106 that "brine tanks to catch
and hold the discharge were required on cars used in interchange
service". The previous paragraph in the book implies he is discussing
refrigerator cars used for meat and frozen foods.

My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?

Bob Chaparro
Mission Viejo, CA


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
Railroads sometimes added salt to the ice in ice bunker refrigerator
cars to achieve lower load temperatures.
Well, no, it was shippers who added initial salt and who specified what the icing deck crews did. In this kind of shipping, railroads or icing companies did what they were told.

John H. White's book, The
Great Yellow Fleet, mentions on Page 106 that "brine tanks to catch
and hold the discharge were required on cars used in interchange
service". The previous paragraph in the book implies he is discussing
refrigerator cars used for meat and frozen foods.
My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?
No, although salt was used for rapid cooling of fresh produce and to attain low temperatures for frozen food. Drain outlets in an RS could be closed, but the capacity of a bunker bottom was not close to equalling the entire bunker load of ice, so one didn't lightly close the drains; you could flood the cargo.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?
Tony Thompson Replied:
No, although salt was used for rapid cooling of fresh produce and
to attain low temperatures for frozen food. Drain outlets in an RS
could be closed, but the capacity of a bunker bottom was not close to
equalling the entire bunker load of ice, so one didn't lightly close
the drains; you could flood the cargo.
In the days of ice refrigerator cars, dripping brine on the rails posed a significant maintenance issue to the railroads. The salt caused corrosion of track and track components. Many railroads had cars designed to spray oil on the track to protect them from the brine. This is an aspect of Steam Era railroading that I have yet to see modeled by anyone.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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mcindoefalls
 

In the days of ice refrigerator cars, dripping brine on the rails
posed a significant maintenance issue to the railroads. The salt
caused corrosion of track and track components.

Regards
Bruce
Not to mention the corrosion of bridges!

Walt Lankenau


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 26, 2005, at 10:02 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

Railroads sometimes added salt to the ice in ice bunker refrigerator
cars to achieve lower load temperatures. John H. White's book, The
Great Yellow Fleet, mentions on Page 106 that "brine tanks to catch
and hold the discharge were required on cars used in interchange
service". The previous paragraph in the book implies he is discussing
refrigerator cars used for meat and frozen foods.

My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?
Tony Thompson has already responded to this query, but I would like to
add a caution about using The Great Yellow Fleet as an authority on
refrigerator cars and reefer operations. The first half of the book on
the 19th and early 20th century development of refrigerator cars was,
in fact, written entirely by Jack White, and you can take whatever he
wrote on the subject to the bank. However, most of the second half of
the text and photo captions was written by White's publisher and silent
collaborator, Donald Duke, and there are errors of fact or
interpretation on almost every page. Duke has a fine track record as a
publisher but an abysmal one as a researcher, an activity in which he
has neither significant credentials nor significant experience.
Regrettably, you can't believe in the accuracy of anything you read in
the second half of the book, and that's unfortunate because, especially
with Jack White as named author, it looks like the kind of book you
should be able to trust.

Richard Hendrickson


Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Guyz,

Corosion will attack most anything, so, what happens to the trucks / journal bearings if this drip is similar to acid? Did the reefer co's install a pan to attempt to wash it outboard of the trucks?

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: mcindoefalls
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks



> In the days of ice refrigerator cars, dripping brine on the rails
> posed a significant maintenance issue to the railroads. The salt
> caused corrosion of track and track components.
>
> Regards
> Bruce
>
Not to mention the corrosion of bridges!

Walt Lankenau




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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Fred,

Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, or sometimes chutes, which were supposed to carry the water away from the car, much like the downspouts on a house. How effective this was at high speed, remains questionable. One would expect considerable spray hitting the car thanks to the turbulance. This detail is rarely modeled.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Fred in Vt. wrote:

Guyz,

Corosion will attack most anything, so, what happens to the trucks / journal bearings if this drip is similar to acid? Did the reefer co's install a pan to attempt to wash it outboard of the trucks?

Fred F


Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

Red Caboose and IIRC IM reefers have them.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Garth Groff
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Refrigerator Car Brine Holding Tanks

Fred,

Reefers usually had little drain pipes at each corner, <snip>. This
detail is rarely modeled.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

In reply to this:
My question is, were such brine tanks ever required for RS reefers in
produce service?
Brian R. Termunde wrote this:
--> Although I don't know for sure, my understanding is that adding salt
would have made temperatures too low for produce. But I would also welcome any
further info too!
Brian is right about SHIPMENT temperatures, but salt was sometimes used to hasten melting (and thus heat absorption) when the cargo was freshly loaded and not yet down to shipping temperature. This is discussed at some length in the PFE book in the chapter on perishable shipping.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history