New England Perishable Traffic


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

One small addition to Richard Hendrickson's comments below. Northern New England received most of its fresh western produce via a ERIE-Binghamton-D&H-Mechanicville-B&M routing.

As for meat, some of it from the American Mid West arrived via Canada. The CN routing would be either via the Central Vermont in St. Albans VT, or the Grand Trunk in Island Pond VT while the CP could route it through Newport VT. So far as I know, little, if any arrived via the Rutland.

Tim Gilbert

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Tim's observations are confirmed by train photos from the '40s and
'50s. Eastbound NYC trains had a lot of meat reefers as well as MDT
cars but hardly any PFE/SFRD cars with western fruit. NKP train shots
also show a lot of meat reefers but very little produce reefer traffic
from west of Chicago. As for the wishful thinking about the Lackawanna
handling any significant western fruit traffic (or the TP&W, for that
matter, which is where this thread began) that's all speculation
supported by virtually no concrete evidence. Both PFE and SFRD
instructed their agents and diversion clerks to route traffic to New
York and New England via Erie if at all possible because the Erie
delivered the goods. With few exceptions, Santa Fe reefer traffic
bound for points east of Chicago went straight to Corwith yard, where
it was handed off to the Indiana Harbor Belt for transfer to the Erie
at Hammond, IN (or, for traffic destined for Toronto and Montreal, to
the Grand Trunk Western). Erie symbol freight NY 98 left at 10 p.m.
every night, often in two or more sections, and was usually solid
reefers. En route icing was carried out at Hornell, NY. New England
traffic was handed off to the New Haven via Port Jervis and Maybrook,
as Tim says, and the rest of the train went straight through to Croxton
yard in NJ, where the cars were loaded on floats for delivery to the
Erie produce docks in Manhattan. The Erie got western fruit and
veggies to New York hours faster than any other RR, which is why they
got almost all of the business.


Jeff English
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:

Northern New
England received most of its fresh western produce via a
ERIE-Binghamton-D&H-Mechanicville-B&M routing.

As for meat, some of it from the American Mid West arrived
via Canada.
The CN routing would be either via the Central Vermont in
St. Albans VT,
or the Grand Trunk in Island Pond VT while the CP could
route it through
Newport VT. So far as I know, little, if any arrived via the
Rutland. <<

In 1961, the Rutland's last year, which was greatly depressed
compared to previous years, they delivered 39 loaded PFE
cars to the B&M at Bellows Falls, Vt. It was mostly lettuce
from southern California and Arizona, but also included
cabbage, onions, carrots, "canned vegetables" and frozen
potatoes. I have no explanation as to why these cars were
routed via the Rutland, but they were. Similarly, 13 loaded
SFRD cars were handled eastbound..

Also B&M delivered 6 westbound PFE cars returning west
loaded with "wrpg paper" bound for San Francisco. And
again, three loaded SFRD cars went west.

My data for 1961 is far more detailed than for earlier times. In
the last three months of 1942, 13 PFE empties and 11 SFRD
empties went west out of Alburgh, Vt. on Rutland's train
No.9. Two more westbound SFRD cars were loaded and
bound for unknown destinations west of the Rutland's
interchange with NYC at Norwood, N.Y. These western
reefers represent only about 2 cars a week, out of about 60
cars a day, so yes perishable traffic was sparse on the Rutland,
but it <did> exist and somebody found it a useful route.

Jeff English
Troy, New York


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Jeff English wrote:

In 1961, the Rutland's last year, which was greatly depressed
compared to previous years, they delivered 39 loaded PFE
cars to the B&M at Bellows Falls, Vt. It was mostly lettuce
from southern California and Arizona, but also included
cabbage, onions, carrots, "canned vegetables" and frozen
potatoes. I have no explanation as to why these cars were
routed via the Rutland, but they were. Similarly, 13 loaded
SFRD cars were handled eastbound..

Also B&M delivered 6 westbound PFE cars returning west
loaded with "wrpg paper" bound for San Francisco. And
again, three loaded SFRD cars went west.

My data for 1961 is far more detailed than for earlier times. In
the last three months of 1942, 13 PFE empties and 11 SFRD
empties went west out of Alburgh, Vt. on Rutland's train
No.9. Two more westbound SFRD cars were loaded and
bound for unknown destinations west of the Rutland's
interchange with NYC at Norwood, N.Y. These western
reefers represent only about 2 cars a week, out of about 60
cars a day, so yes perishable traffic was sparse on the Rutland,
but it <did> exist and somebody found it a useful route.
Jeff,

Westbound Reefer Reloads of Wrapping Paper and other type Merchandise, I can understand, given the westbound differential rate via Rutland-Norwood-NYC-Suspension Bridge-Ontario-Michigan & points beyond.

Eastbound, I am at a loss except, maybe, that the formidable Rutland Sales Force scored again over the relative giants like the ERIE, D&H and B&M.

Tim Gilbert


armprem
 

Gentlemen,I suspect that there may be some incorrect assumptions.Most of
the perishable traffic went to Burlington.There were several large (by
Vermont standards) wholesale distributors located there.I believe if we were
to examine freight records you would find different results.The same may be
said for oil products.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff English" <englij@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: New England Perishable Traffic


Tim Gilbert wrote:

Northern New
England received most of its fresh western produce via a
ERIE-Binghamton-D&H-Mechanicville-B&M routing.

As for meat, some of it from the American Mid West arrived
via Canada.
The CN routing would be either via the Central Vermont in
St. Albans VT,
or the Grand Trunk in Island Pond VT while the CP could
route it through
Newport VT. So far as I know, little, if any arrived via the
Rutland. <<

In 1961, the Rutland's last year, which was greatly depressed
compared to previous years, they delivered 39 loaded PFE
cars to the B&M at Bellows Falls, Vt. It was mostly lettuce
from southern California and Arizona, but also included
cabbage, onions, carrots, "canned vegetables" and frozen
potatoes. I have no explanation as to why these cars were
routed via the Rutland, but they were. Similarly, 13 loaded
SFRD cars were handled eastbound..

Also B&M delivered 6 westbound PFE cars returning west
loaded with "wrpg paper" bound for San Francisco. And
again, three loaded SFRD cars went west.

My data for 1961 is far more detailed than for earlier times. In
the last three months of 1942, 13 PFE empties and 11 SFRD
empties went west out of Alburgh, Vt. on Rutland's train
No.9. Two more westbound SFRD cars were loaded and
bound for unknown destinations west of the Rutland's
interchange with NYC at Norwood, N.Y. These western
reefers represent only about 2 cars a week, out of about 60
cars a day, so yes perishable traffic was sparse on the Rutland,
but it <did> exist and somebody found it a useful route.

Jeff English
Troy, New York




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Tim O'Connor
 

Jeff,

Westbound Reefer Reloads of Wrapping Paper and other type Merchandise,
I can understand, given the westbound differential rate via
Rutland-Norwood-NYC-Suspension Bridge-Ontario-Michigan & points beyond.

Eastbound, I am at a loss except, maybe, that the formidable Rutland
Sales Force scored again over the relative giants like the ERIE, D&H
and B&M.

Tim Gilbert

Tim

Who can really know the inscrutable mind of the traffic agent?

Sometimes I contemplate "dream routings" like SP to NP to MNS to
GBW (then by boat across Lake Michigan car ferry) to AA to GT to
CN to Rutland to CV to B&M to the New Haven.... Isn't it possible
some bored clerk would amuse himself devising the most god-awful
possible route allowed under available tariffs, just to prove it
could be done? Naturally, "perishables" by their nature made this
task more challenging...

Tim


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Tim

Who can really know the inscrutable mind of the traffic agent?

Sometimes I contemplate "dream routings" like SP to NP to MNS to
GBW (then by boat across Lake Michigan car ferry) to AA to GT to
CN to Rutland to CV to B&M to the New Haven.... Isn't it possible
some bored clerk would amuse himself devising the most god-awful
possible route allowed under available tariffs, just to prove it
could be done? Naturally, "perishables" by their nature made this
task more challenging...
Inscrutable No. Expense Account & Pity Yes.

Tim Gilbert


Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Tim & Jeff,


Was there a time when Rutland had a very favourable tarriff rate as a bridge line, and used it to garner business? Shippers are always looking for cheaper rates, and this may explain the car movement.

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Gilbert
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: New England Perishable Traffic


Jeff English wrote:

> In 1961, the Rutland's last year, which was greatly depressed
> compared to previous years, they delivered 39 loaded PFE
> cars to the B&M at Bellows Falls, Vt. It was mostly lettuce
> from southern California and Arizona, but also included
> cabbage, onions, carrots, "canned vegetables" and frozen
> potatoes. I have no explanation as to why these cars were
> routed via the Rutland, but they were. Similarly, 13 loaded
> SFRD cars were handled eastbound..
>
> Also B&M delivered 6 westbound PFE cars returning west
> loaded with "wrpg paper" bound for San Francisco. And
> again, three loaded SFRD cars went west.
>
> My data for 1961 is far more detailed than for earlier times. In
> the last three months of 1942, 13 PFE empties and 11 SFRD
> empties went west out of Alburgh, Vt. on Rutland's train
> No.9. Two more westbound SFRD cars were loaded and
> bound for unknown destinations west of the Rutland's
> interchange with NYC at Norwood, N.Y. These western
> reefers represent only about 2 cars a week, out of about 60
> cars a day, so yes perishable traffic was sparse on the Rutland,
> but it <did> exist and somebody found it a useful route.

Jeff,

Westbound Reefer Reloads of Wrapping Paper and other type Merchandise, I
can understand, given the westbound differential rate via
Rutland-Norwood-NYC-Suspension Bridge-Ontario-Michigan & points beyond.

Eastbound, I am at a loss except, maybe, that the formidable Rutland
Sales Force scored again over the relative giants like the ERIE, D&H and
B&M.

Tim Gilbert



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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Fred in Vt. wrote:

Tim & Jeff,


Was there a time when Rutland had a very favourable tarriff rate as a bridge line, and used it to garner business? Shippers are always looking for cheaper rates, and this may explain the car movement.
Fred,

There was a westbound differential rail route tariff from Eastern New England to Michigan & beyond if transit was through Canada. Eligible routes were CN via St. Albans VT & Island Pond VT; CP via Newport VT (&, perhaps, Brownsville Jct ME/Lac Megantic QU); and via the Rutland-Norwood-NYC (E)-Suspension Bridge NY (not Buffalo). A differential rail route tariff cost less than the standard all-rail routing of similar traffic proceeding westward from New England to Michigan using all-American routing like B&M-Rotterdam-NYC.

There was no eastbound differential rail route tariff to Eastern New England.

Tim Gilbert


Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Tim,

Sounds like it only applied in a few circumstances; I had thought it was a broader feature in scope. So I guess I'm correct, just not to the extent that I was lead to believe. Thanks for the explanation of the tarriff, now I have an idea of what to look for in another pile of papers.

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Gilbert
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: New England Perishable Traffic


Fred in Vt. wrote:

> Tim & Jeff,
>
>
> Was there a time when Rutland had a very favourable
> tarriff rate as a bridge line, and used it to garner business?
> Shippers are always looking for cheaper rates, and this may explain
> the car movement.

Fred,

There was a westbound differential rail route tariff from Eastern New
England to Michigan & beyond if transit was through Canada. Eligible
routes were CN via St. Albans VT & Island Pond VT; CP via Newport VT (&,
perhaps, Brownsville Jct ME/Lac Megantic QU); and via the
Rutland-Norwood-NYC (E)-Suspension Bridge NY (not Buffalo). A
differential rail route tariff cost less than the standard all-rail
routing of similar traffic proceeding westward from New England to
Michigan using all-American routing like B&M-Rotterdam-NYC.

There was no eastbound differential rail route tariff to Eastern New
England.

Tim Gilbert



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Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

Beyond boredom, there is another explanation for "dream routings" of
perishables, as well as other seasonal commodities, such as lumber. Fruit
and veggies have to be loaded while chilled and must remain chilled, and the
demand for loading tracks is great, whereas not all loads were necessarily
sold when loaded. So, loaded cars of unsold perishables would be sent along
toward some cross-country destination to clear the loading tracks. The ICC
and other tariff controlled rates permitted crazy routings at very low or no
additional charge. Then, when that car of fruit and veggies was sold, a
changed waybill would be issued for the car and it would be then sent by the
fastest means to the new destination. Essentially, the reefer was used as
rolling storage, and "rolling" was paramount. Most of the fans on reefers
were belt driven off one of the axles, as well as the roof top ventilation
required that the car be moving. So, cars would be shipped by crazy routings
to keep it moving, iced, and fresh.

The Quanah, Acme, and Pacific connected the Santa Fe at one end, and the
Fort Worth and Denver and Frisco at the other. It was only about 100 miles
long, yet did a HUGE bridge route business of lumber and reefers. They had
several outside salespeople whose only job was to encourage seasonal
shippers to specify QAP routings for these loads, which of course meant that
a load of Washington lumber that ultimately ends up in Chicago or New York
might have started out headed for Quanah, Texas, far far out of the way.
This was simply using the railroads as giant rolling warehouses. The end of
controlled tariffs spelled the end of the QAP, as well as many other bridge
route roads that required cars to take long detours to reach.

As for routing perishables over boat lines - not unless the ultimate
consumer was close to the end of the boat ride! Once the cars come to a stop
in a yard waiting for the ferry the cooling starts to become a problem.
Then, the ferry ride is a second cooling problem. This could mean that the
reefers would require re-icing, and the fans (if so equipped) are not
turning. Lumber, however, would be another story . . . You are already
thinking like a controlled tariff traffic agent! Send those loads
everywhere!

Tom Jones

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: New England Perishable Traffic


Tim O'Connor wrote:

Tim

Who can really know the inscrutable mind of the traffic agent?

Sometimes I contemplate "dream routings" like SP to NP to MNS to
GBW (then by boat across Lake Michigan car ferry) to AA to GT to
CN to Rutland to CV to B&M to the New Haven.... Isn't it possible
some bored clerk would amuse himself devising the most god-awful
possible route allowed under available tariffs, just to prove it
could be done? Naturally, "perishables" by their nature made this
task more challenging...


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Jones III wrote:
Beyond boredom, there is another explanation for "dream routings" of
perishables, as well as other seasonal commodities, such as lumber. Fruit
and veggies have to be loaded while chilled and must remain chilled, and the
demand for loading tracks is great, whereas not all loads were necessarily
sold when loaded. So, loaded cars of unsold perishables would be sent along
toward some cross-country destination to clear the loading tracks.
Absolutely not ever the reason, according to Pete Holst, PFE's AGM for traffic matters. The only reason for the "no definite destination" waybill was to give flexibility in reaching the best market. Cars were not sent out into the void with an intention to do paperwork later. If sent out with an open bill, it was in accord with a marketing plan.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ljack70117@...
 

On Sunday, July 31, 2005, at 10:52 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
Absolutely not ever the reason, according to Pete Holst, PFE's
AGM for traffic matters. The only reason for the "no definite
destination" waybill was to give flexibility in reaching the best
market. Cars were not sent out into the void with an intention to do
paperwork later. If sent out with an open bill, it was in accord with a
marketing plan.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
All cars shipped had to have a consignee and a destination. The consignee could be the shipper shipping to himself in any town on any RR. He then would offer the load for sale on any board of trade. When sold it would be diverted to the new owner and town of his choice.
This was done with wheat all the time. The RRs did not have any part in this except to issue a waybill for the original shipping and changing the waybill when notified of said sale. Of course they moved the car as all this was going on. Any car shipped ( oil, produce, wheat, Rabbit fur or what have you) could be diverted if the shipper or consignee wanted to.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
All cars shipped had to have a consignee and a destination. The
consignee could be the shipper shipping to himself in any town on any
RR. He then would offer the load for sale on any board of trade. When
sold it would be diverted to the new owner and town of his choice.
Larry is exactly right, though at least some diversions I saw in PFE records were to a railroad agent in an intermediate town. Some were to wholesalers in the desired intermediate town, even if said entity had no warehouse or even siding; the real consignee was the local agent for that wholesaler, who would in most cases never see or hear of the shipment.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history