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M&StL 50 fters
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Carrock1998@...
Clark,
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I did a bit of searching around for you. Discovered that Weirton Junction was 41 miles from Pittsburg and was part of PRR main line between Pittsburg and Columbus. It was roughly 150 miles from Columbus. It had an interlocking station that was operated continously. Besides controlling its own interlocking it controlled the following locations as well: COWEIRTON JCT. NCWEIRTON JCT. SBWEIRTON JCT. CO was located 5.2 miles to the east. NC was located 1.3 miles to the east. SB was located 0.7 a mile to the west. You might want to check out the Railmodel Journal January 2004 issue. There is a Bill Neale 22 x 25-foot two-deck “Panhandle” at Weirton Junction model layout. Perhaps that will shed some light on it for you. I don't have the above issue or I would look it up for you. I believe there is a steel plant located there called Weirton Steel, but I'm not 100% certain on that. That's the best help I can provide you with. HOpefully, it is a start. Robert "Rocky" Jackson In a message dated 8/22/2005 11:29:02 AM Central Standard Time,
cepropst@... writes: Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted??
Thanks, Clark Propst |
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Greg Martin
Clark,
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Likely coil steel rolls. Weirton W.VA. was a big steel town. The P&WV 40-foot boxcars bought from both PS and AC&F were bought to handle coil steel rolls. Greg Martin -----Original Message-----
From: Clark Propst <cepropst@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:28:39 -0500 Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Chet French <cfrench@...>
Clark,
I thought of the same thing as Greg. May have been tin plate going to a cannery or other industry that used cans. The Borden's milk plant in Dixon received tin plate in coil rolls during the 1950's in EJ&E cars. Also the J L Clark plant in Rockford, which made a types of cans would receive these same cars, at least in 1960. I'm not allowed to talk about things beyond that date. Chet French Dixon, IL --- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@a... wrote: Clark,P&WV 40-foot boxcars bought from both PS and AC&F were bought to handle coil steel rolls. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photoswere taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TOPRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might havewanted?? Thanks, |
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Clark
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I agree with Greg, some kind of steel sheeting either in coils or flat form. Very useful for appliance manufacturing which I think was present somewhere on the M&StL. It looks like someone "borrowed" the cars and sent them to California instead of Iowa... Tim O'Connor Clark, |
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Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
Clark;
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Weirton Steel, which the PRR switched, was a division of National Steel during that period. Weirton made coke, pig, and steel, but they were also a huge producer of tin plate, both electrolytic and hot dipped. This was used extensively as can stock. There seem to have been a number of boxcars stenciled with that label. Among them an insulated set of X53s on the PRR set up exclusively for Weirton Steel (also DF-equipped). They are said to have been reserved for coil on pallets, although I do not know their ultimate destination. Weather-protected coil strip was also used extensively in appliance manufacture, as well as the larger coils you more typically associate with the auto industry. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Clark Propst Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:29 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links |
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Very useful for appliance manufacturingMaytag in Newton IA, on the branch out of New Sharon. Would seem odd for these new cars to be rocking down a light rail branch behind an ALCO. Clark Propst |
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Clark,
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You may have hit on something. Weirton Steel was a major producer of tinplate. See this article from 1956 http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/bus/WHSTEEL1.HTM Tim O'Connor Clark, |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Weirton Steel, which the PRR switched, was a division of National SteelThere were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda in the 1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing in Alameda (if it came there directly from Weirton). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
Clark and Greg,
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If the cars shipped coils to Alameda, they might well have been canstock. There was a large Del Monte cannery in Alamada. They primarily canned pineapples from Hawaii, but I think did other fruit as well. Strange that they would send all the Wierton for canstock though. Plenty of it was rolled at USS Columbia in Pittsburg, California. There was also a small steel fabrication plant in Alameda. it was dormant by the time I lived there in the mid-1970s. The plant used primarily structural steel. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff tgregmrtn@... wrote: Clark, Clark Propst |
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Greg Martin
All,
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This does make sense if the stock was shipped as cans or can stock in rolls as many of the cars Marked "WE" show up here in Salem, OR today loaded with empty cans for Truit Bros. canneries even today. Salem, OR is stuffed full of empty cans ("hey, he hates the cans..." excerpt from The Jerk) in just about every empty building in town and I am sure it was the case in the 50's as there were more canneries here then than now. The WE cars are from the current Wheeling and Lake Erie RR fleet. I am simply using this as a comparitive example albeit out of scope for this lists time period. So Tony and Garth this all plays together. One thing we don't address often on this list is the old railroads marketing approach to cars and car supply of years past. I am often reminded by the RR car applicators (still working for the major carriers) that the railroads were often ask to contribute cars to pools to assigned locations to return to for loading in order to participate in that commodity's distribution to plants on line. The theory was if you participate in the revenue you supply the needed cars to d the job. Often the cars were incorrectly shipped to the wrong destination in error by the shipper. But the theory was that a CB&Q car loaded offline at one location was to route to the home road with a load. This often resulted in a car in the pool ending up at the wrong desto but that the user on the Q would be supplied anther like car from the same pool. It was often difficult to correct but they were generally recaptured and corrected at some point. So for the M&StL car it was likely in a pool and routed in error to California, but would likely get corrected at some point. Regardless the cars were in the "pool" and therefore carrying the correct commodity in this case likely cans or can stock. Many canneries had local companies that made cans from sheet or coil stock near by. We in Salem, OR have a small can producer (former American Can Co. plant) who chooses to use trucks rather than rail as we have experimented with transloading coil steel, but the damage created in transite makes trucking a better alternative. BTW te coils were shipped on pallets "eye to the sky". Greg Martin -----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:21:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Clark and Greg, If the cars shipped coils to Alameda, they might well have been canstock. There was a large Del Monte cannery in Alamada. They primarily canned pineapples from Hawaii, but I think did other fruit as well. Strange that they would send all the Wierton for canstock though. Plenty of it was rolled at USS Columbia in Pittsburg, California. There was also a small steel fabrication plant in Alameda. it was dormant by the time I lived there in the mid-1970s. The plant used primarily structural steel. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff tgregmrtn@... wrote: Clark,boxcars bought from both PS and AC&F were bought to handle coil steel rolls.
W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Clark Propst Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Thomas Baker
Wierton, WV once had--maybe still does--a sprawling steel mill. Would that make any sense?
Tom By the way, Clark, I know that the CGW billed some of its ore hoppers to South Freeport for handling by the IC and I think it billed some to Galena for the Q. Either line had a way from said locations to East St. Louis. Yes, and some probably went to Marshalltown and was turned over to the M&StL. Tom ________________________________ From: STMFC@... on behalf of Clark Propst Sent: Mon 8/22/2005 12:28 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst Yahoo! Groups Links |
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Tony wrote:
There were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda inthe 1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing inAlameda (if it came there directly from Weirton).I have been informed by an expert that they cars had 9' doors not 8' as I had first mentioned. Thanks for all the great replies. I think it is safe to assume (using the CGW car assignments as a guide) these cars were purchased for the Weirton pool and could have traveled anywhere in the country. They were fortunately photograghed in Alameda. BTW they are not coupled together, but in separate photos. All agree, raise your hands....how many of you acually did? How many of you would like to see models of these bright red cars with black ends and 10'6" M dot ST L on the left and the road name in a white horizonal stripe on the right with a diagonal stripe with Damage Free in it? Thanks tons guys, Clark |
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Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
Clark
Tin plate equals Tin Cans, add in the M&StL and we arrive at Decker Meat in Mason City. And don't forget the various canneries, ie Marshall Canning #5 in Roland, Grinnell Canning in Grinnell, etc. Thanks everyone, now I have some new routing for waybills on the IaC. Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com |
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Clark, I would love to see a model of this car, since evidently
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they ran on the SP in the 1960 era. Can you post a photo? Does it have tab sills, taper sills (what style?) Does it match either the Intermountain or any Kadee version? Tim O. Tony wrote:There were canneries in East Oakland and one on Alameda inthe1940s. Elden's idea may well explain what that car was doing inAlameda(if it came there directly from Weirton).I have been informed by an expert that they cars had 9' doors not 8' |
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@c... wrote:
Clark, I would love to see a model of this car, since evidentlyTim, here's a link to a model. http://www.eldora.net/lyndon/propst/boxcar2902.html I'll post the prototype in the files section. Clark propst |
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
I had to post the image of M&StL 2900 in the photo section the files
section didn't have room. It's the last photo, just hit view all and scroll down. Clark Propst |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Greg Martin wrote:
One thing we don't address often on this list is the old railroads marketing approach to cars and car supply of years past. I am often reminded by the RR car applicators (still working for the major carriers) that the railroads were often ask to contribute cars to pools to assigned locations to return to for loading in order to participate in that commodity's distribution to plants on line. The theory was if you participate in the revenue you supply the needed cars to d the job.After World War II, at least for auto parts, the pool arrangements were in the form of written contracts and numbers of dedicated cars from each pool contributor were specified. It wasn't exactly being "asked to contribute" in that case. But other pools may have been less formal, as were even the auto parts pools before WW II. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Greg Martin
Tony Thompson writes:
" After World War II, at least for auto parts, the pool arrangements were in the form of written contracts and numbers of dedicated cars from each pool contributor were specified. It wasn't exactly being "asked to contribute" in that case. But other pools may have been less formal, as were even the auto parts pools before WW II." And your right Tony it was not as polite as I make it seems but again I deal with these guys every day and I guess I would like negotiations like these to be more polite... but they're not. Car hire, lost car days, reload on spot... Yuck! On PRR cars during the 50's, and I am sure Tony is very aware of this, the pool numbers were painted on the PRR cars... Greg Martin |
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Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
Clark,
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The first thing on the list would be Weirton Steel, and followed by brick,china,porcelain and clay items, ending at Koppers Butane Industrial track. [ installed during the Korean conflict] These are located on the New Cumberland Branch, which went NE from Weirton Jct. Now see if you can trace possible receivers of these items in Alameda, and the puzzle gets smaller. Fred Freitas ----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:28 PM Subject: [STMFC] M&StL 50 fters Saturday I bought photos of M&StL 2900 and 2902 from Joe Collias. These are PS1 50' box cars with 8' doors and DF loaders blt in 59. The photos were taken at Alameda CA in 1960. The cars are stenciled: WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO PRR WEIRTON W VA. Does anyone know what Weirton had that Alameda might have wanted?? Thanks, Clark Propst SPONSORED LINKS Train travel Freight car Canada train travel Train travel in italy North american ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "STMFC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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