dutch drop


Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

Now for the fun and games. A "DUTCH drop". You want to get the car to
the other end of your engine but you have a trailing point switch.
Why would you even want to do a "dutch drop"?

The goal is to get the car to the other end of the engine. What reasons would there be to do that other than to switch a facing point switch. If you are going to do a facing point move, why not just do the regular drop?

Ned


ljack70117@...
 

Some times you only have one switch and it is a trailing point switch. Or you can keep it on the wrong end of your engine and "foot board" it until you find a run around track.
It was fronded upon by the RRs.
On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 07:34 PM, Ned Carey wrote:

Now for the fun and games. A "DUTCH drop". You want to get the car to
the other end of your engine but you have a trailing point switch.
Why would you even want to do a "dutch drop"?

The goal is to get the car to the other end of the engine. What reasons
would there be to do that other than to switch a facing point switch. If you
are going to do a facing point move, why not just do the regular drop?

Ned
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?


Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

The Dutch drop was to get the car from the north end of the engine to the
south end (for example), but without a run-around. So, the moving car was
allowed to roll past the locomotive that has run away from the rolling car,
stopped, reversed, thrown the switch, and run into what was a trailing point
switch. The switch is then thrown again and the car rolls past, putting the
car at the other end of the locomotive. The locomotive now throws the
switch, runs out of the spur, catches the rolling boxcar (or the brakeman
has stopped it), and the train reassembled.

As for why - if there is switching to be done, and there is no way to get
the car to the other end of the train except to travel several miles to a
run around, well, many crews won't suffer along with spending literally
hours running to a run-around just to run back. Hence, the Dutch drop.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dutch drop


Now for the fun and games. A "DUTCH drop". You want to get the car to
the other end of your engine but you have a trailing point switch.
Why would you even want to do a "dutch drop"?

The goal is to get the car to the other end of the engine. What reasons
would there be to do that other than to switch a facing point switch. If
you
are going to do a facing point move, why not just do the regular drop?


Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Back in 1965 and 1966, when I was a new operator on the PRR's
Philadelphia Division I worked a lot of days at Hook Block Station in
Marcus Hook, Pa., on the Philadelphia-Washington Main Line. Across from
the tower was the Congoleum Corporation plant which was switched twice a
day, seven days a week. There were at least three sidings into the
plant off No. 5 track which accessed a number of industries between
Thurlow Yard and a point about a mile south of the interlocking.

There were many days when the yard crew had cars ahead and behind the
engine when working this plant and it was ineveitable that they would
have to "swing" (a.k.a. a "Dutch Drop") a car to get it into the plant
to a point where they could go against it to spot it inside the
building. In the many times that I witnessed this move, they never had
a derailment or a "run in" with the equipment. Yes, this type of move
was frowned upon by management due to the precision that it took to make
the move. One error in judgment of timing and either you had a
derailment, a cornering of the equipment, a run-through switch, or
possibly an employee injury if there was a derailment. The crews that I
worked with as an operator, all had worked with each other for a long
time and had a lot of experience in making this tyoe of movement.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479



ljack70117@... wrote:

Some times you only have one switch and it is a trailing point switch.
Or you can keep it on the wrong end of your engine and "foot board" it
until you find a run around track.
It was fronded upon by the RRs.
On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 07:34 PM, Ned Carey wrote:



Now for the fun and games. A "DUTCH drop". You want to get the car
to
the other end of your engine but you have a trailing point switch.

Why would you even want to do a "dutch drop"?

The goal is to get the car to the other end of the engine. What reasons
would there be to do that other than to switch a facing point switch.
If you
are going to do a facing point move, why not just do the regular drop?

Ned

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?





Yahoo! Groups Links








John Degnan <RailScaler@...>
 

I've heard this maneuver referred to as "playing bumper-cars"... and I heard that it is/was strongly frowned upon by the higher powers.


John Degnan
RailScaler@...
Announcing : Seaboard Air Line's B-7 Box Cars In S Scale!
http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/SALRoundRoofBoxCarProject.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Jones III
To: STMFC@...
Sent: August 25, 2005 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dutch drop


The Dutch drop was to get the car from the north end of the engine to the
south end (for example), but without a run-around. So, the moving car was
allowed to roll past the locomotive that has run away from the rolling car,
stopped, reversed, thrown the switch, and run into what was a trailing point
switch. The switch is then thrown again and the car rolls past, putting the
car at the other end of the locomotive. The locomotive now throws the
switch, runs out of the spur, catches the rolling boxcar (or the brakeman
has stopped it), and the train reassembled.

As for why - if there is switching to be done, and there is no way to get
the car to the other end of the train except to travel several miles to a
run around, well, many crews won't suffer along with spending literally
hours running to a run-around just to run back. Hence, the Dutch drop.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dutch drop


> >> Now for the fun and games. A "DUTCH drop". You want to get the car to
> >> the other end of your engine but you have a trailing point switch.
>
> Why would you even want to do a "dutch drop"?
>
> The goal is to get the car to the other end of the engine. What reasons
> would there be to do that other than to switch a facing point switch. If
you
> are going to do a facing point move, why not just do the regular drop?



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Clyde Williams <billdgoat@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
The Dutch drop was to get the car from the north end of the engine
to the
south end (for example), but without a run-around. So, the moving
car was
allowed to roll past the locomotive that has run away from the
rolling car,
stopped, reversed, thrown the switch, and run into what was a
trailing point
switch. The switch is then thrown again and the car rolls past,
putting the
car at the other end of the locomotive. The locomotive now throws
the
switch, runs out of the spur, catches the rolling boxcar (or the
brakeman
has stopped it), and the train reassembled.

As for why - if there is switching to be done, and there is no way
to get

My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a facing
point spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
uncoupled. then the engine sped up even more and as it passed the
switch the points were thrown and the car rolled into the spur.
Getting the engine far enough ahead of the car to stop, back into a
trailing point spur (assuming there was one handy) and throw the
switch back would seem impossible, as well as even more dangerous, to
do.
Bill Williams





the car to the other end of the train except to travel several
miles to a
run around, well, many crews won't suffer along with spending
literally
hours running to a run-around just to run back. Hence, the Dutch
drop.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dutch drop


Now for the fun and games. A "DUTCH drop". You want to get
the car to
the other end of your engine but you have a trailing point
switch.

Why would you even want to do a "dutch drop"?

The goal is to get the car to the other end of the engine. What
reasons
would there be to do that other than to switch a facing point
switch. If
you
are going to do a facing point move, why not just do the regular
drop?


ljack70117@...
 

On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Clyde Williams wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
The Dutch drop was to get the car from the north end of the engine
to the
south end (for example), but without a run-around. So, the moving
car was
allowed to roll past the locomotive that has run away from the
rolling car,
stopped, reversed, thrown the switch, and run into what was a
trailing point
switch. The switch is then thrown again and the car rolls past,
putting the
car at the other end of the locomotive. The locomotive now throws
the
switch, runs out of the spur, catches the rolling boxcar (or the
brakeman
has stopped it), and the train reassembled.

As for why - if there is switching to be done, and there is no way
to get

My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a facing
point spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
uncoupled. then the engine sped up even more and as it passed the
switch the points were thrown and the car rolled into the spur.
This is a drop not dutch drop.

A dutch drop can be done as I did one when I was a switchman on John Santa Fe in Emporia Ks. Missed our engine by about 3 feet. Using a alco S4. It is very dangerous to do. Never did an other one.


Getting the engine far enough ahead of the car to stop, back into a
trailing point spur (assuming there was one handy) and throw the
switch back would seem impossible, as well as even more dangerous, to
do.
Bill Williams
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?


Jared Harper <harper-brown@...>
 

My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a
facing
point spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
uncoupled. then the engine sped up even more and as it passed the
switch the points were thrown and the car rolled into the spur.
Getting the engine far enough ahead of the car to stop, back into a
trailing point spur (assuming there was one handy) and throw the
switch back would seem impossible, as well as even more dangerous,
to
do.
Bill Williams
What ever it is called, I want to know if there is anyone out there
who does this on their layout. If anyone has I would like to know how
it is accomplished in the model world.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Thomas M. Olsen wrote:
In the many times that I witnessed this move, they never had
a derailment or a "run in" with the equipment . . . The crews that I
worked with as an operator, all had worked with each other for a long
time and had a lot of experience in making this type of movement.
Well said, Tom. I have heard the same of experienced crews elsewhere. The fact that the move is obviously dangerous and can go wrong, does NOT mean it went wrong all the time.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

I have also herd this called a "flying switch" or a "Chinese switch"

On Aug 25, 2005, at 12:47 PM, ljack70117@... wrote:


On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Clyde Williams wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
The Dutch drop was to get the car from the north end of the engine
to the
south end (for example), but without a run-around. So, the moving
car was
allowed to roll past the locomotive that has run away from the
rolling car,
stopped, reversed, thrown the switch, and run into what was a
trailing point
switch. The switch is then thrown again and the car rolls past,
putting the
car at the other end of the locomotive. The locomotive now throws
the
switch, runs out of the spur, catches the rolling boxcar (or the
brakeman
has stopped it), and the train reassembled.

As for why - if there is switching to be done, and there is no way
to get

My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a facing
point spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
uncoupled. then the engine sped up even more and as it passed the
switch the points were thrown and the car rolled into the spur.
This is a drop not dutch drop.

A dutch drop can be done as I did one when I was a switchman on John
Santa Fe in Emporia Ks. Missed our engine by about 3 feet. Using a alco
S4. It is very dangerous to do. Never did an other one.


Getting the engine far enough ahead of the car to stop, back into a
trailing point spur (assuming there was one handy) and throw the
switch back would seem impossible, as well as even more dangerous, to
do.
Bill Williams
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?





Yahoo! Groups Links







Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

Group,

In simple terms, a drop is when the engine and car or cars go in the
same direction during the entire move. A "Dutch drop" is when the
engine changes directions to get in the clear, during the move. On
the IC we just used the term "drop" for either move. Usually the
dutch drop was made where gravity would lend a helping hand with a
slight grade. Often the brakes could be released on a car or cars,
and they would roll by the engine, unassisted. We generally would
give the cars an easy kick uphill, put the engine in the clear, and
wait for the cars to stop and roll back downhill past the engine. I
was still making this move several times a week, 41 years past the
time frame of this group.

Chet French
Dixon,IL





--- In STMFC@..., ljack70117@a... wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Clyde Williams wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@c...>
wrote:
The Dutch drop was to get the car from the north end of the
engine
to the
south end (for example), but without a run-around. So, the moving
car was
allowed to roll past the locomotive that has run away from the
rolling car,
stopped, reversed, thrown the switch, and run into what was a
trailing point
switch. The switch is then thrown again and the car rolls past,
putting the
car at the other end of the locomotive. The locomotive now throws
the
switch, runs out of the spur, catches the rolling boxcar (or the
brakeman
has stopped it), and the train reassembled.

As for why - if there is switching to be done, and there is no
way
to get

My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a
facing
point spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
uncoupled. then the engine sped up even more and as it passed the
switch the points were thrown and the car rolled into the spur.
This is a drop not dutch drop.

A dutch drop can be done as I did one when I was a switchman on
John
Santa Fe in Emporia Ks. Missed our engine by about 3 feet. Using a
alco
S4. It is very dangerous to do. Never did an other one.


Getting the engine far enough ahead of the car to stop, back into
a
trailing point spur (assuming there was one handy) and throw the
switch back would seem impossible, as well as even more
dangerous, to
do.
Bill Williams
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@a...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?


Richard White
 

Chet French said:

"A "Dutch drop" is when the engine changes directions to get in the clear,
during the move. Usually the dutch drop was made where gravity would lend a
helping hand with a slight grade. Often the brakes could be released on a
car or cars, and they would roll by the engine, unassisted. We generally
would give the cars an easy kick uphill, put the engine in the clear, and
wait for the cars to stop and roll back downhill past the engine."

It occurs to me that with a steam locomotice this move would be very tricky
unless there was a gradient to help as Chet says and even more so if the
locomotive was not fitted with a lever reverser as a screw reverser or most
of the steam reversers that I have seen in use would take too long to change
from forward to reverse gear. With a lever reverser it's quick to change
direction. For this reason, most UK steam shunting (=switching) locomotives
were fitted with a lever reverse.

Richard White




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Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

The Dutch drop is not inherently unsafe, just a bit trickier than a simple
drop or a kick. The trick is to keep the moving dropped car's velocity low,
or perhaps have a slight grade to assist and simply let gravity move the
car. Putting a brakeman on the car to help control speed (or stop the car in
case of emergency) can help. All this can be achieved with a car with
sufficient mass that it has high inertia, as most prototype cars have.
Except for the run in I described in a much earlier post, I think the most
embarassing I have actually seen in a Dutch drop situation was when the
dropped car had only enough energy to drive it to the center of the switch -
trapping the locomotive on the spur and the car spanning the points, no
poling pole. Whoops. The crew ended up pushing the offending car out of the
way with a Jeep from a nearby grain elevator.

Tom Jones

----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dutch drop


Snip) The fact that the move is obviously dangerous and can go
wrong, does NOT mean it went wrong all the time.


Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
 

This is a "drop". The "Dutch Drop" has the loco speed ahead, throw a switch,
then loco REVERSES and goes hidey-hole into the spur, switch thrown again,
and car rolls past. Its that reversing that gets interesting! Nothing like
having your locomotive heading back toward a rolling car to get your
attention.

Tom

----- Original Message -----

My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a facing
point spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
uncoupled. then the engine sped up even more and as it passed the
switch the points were thrown and the car rolled into the spur.
Getting the engine far enough ahead of the car to stop, back into a
trailing point spur (assuming there was one handy) and throw the
switch back would seem impossible, as well as even more dangerous, to
do.
Bill Williams