Date
1 - 20 of 26
Wine car ops
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Andreas Kühnpast <Andreas.Kuehnpast@...>
raildata@aol.com wrote:
I recall seeing multiple compartment wine car in Pennsylvania during theI have found out that a former customer of "my shortline", Vermont's Barre & Chelsea, was also involved in a similar kind of activity: Calmont Beverage Co. in Barre, VT started importing wine from California in 1941 and bottled it in Vermont. They obviously were the first company to do so in Vermont. The company website (www.calmontbeverage.com/index.htm) states: "... came up with the idea to bring barreled wine to Vermont, via rail, and bottle it here under the Calmont brand name (a contraction of California/Vermont)." Would wine have been sent in barrels in reefers or would it have been transported in tank cars? In the "Barre & Chelsea Industrial Guide" issued in August 1953 Calmont Beverage is listed as having a B&C spur track and the main commodity received was "malt beverages" (i.e. beer). Could this be an indication that (bulk) wine transport had stopped by that date? Or was it just an indication of more important beer traffic? In the past we had been discussing grape shipments to Barre, VT for DIY wine making. When would these shipments have ended, when the bulk shipment of wine to Vermont started in 1941? Or did wine (and grappa!) making in Vermont communities with a high percentage of Italians (like South Ryegate) continue after that date? Getting thirsty from this topic... Andreas Kuehnpast
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raildata@...
I recall seeing multiple compartment wine car in Pennsylvania during the
1940s. Don't recall reporting marks, etc. but the stuff was rebottled as "Virgina Dare" by the Brrokside distilling Co. Chuck Y Boulder CO
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PBowers <waiting@...>
While the wine car might be an interesting conversation piece, I would expect it was operated over few routes. Unless your modelled railway has a winery or bottling facility, or is on the route in between is it a logical car to have? For interst sake, how many routes would these cars be found on?
(Why do I whine about wine cars?? Whine not??) Peter Bowers -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.4/109 - Release Date: 9/21/05
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Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
The wine cars may have had few origination points but many termination points.
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On Sep 21, 2005, at 7:50 PM, PBowers wrote:
While the wine car might be an interesting conversation piece, I would
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Richard Hendrickson
On Sep 21, 2005, at 4:50 PM, PBowers wrote:
While the wine car might be an interesting conversation piece, I wouldIt's true that glass-lined wine tank cars were not numerous. However, there were single, three, and four compartment wine tank cars as well as six compartment cars, and the total of all types added up to hundreds of cars. General American, Shippers Car Line, and North American all owned them and leased them to a variety of wine shippers. In addition to a sizable number of California vintners, lessees of wine tank cars included, for example, Ambrose of Kansas City; Pirrone & Sons of Garfield, NJ; and K. Arekelian of Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York, who shipped wine east in bulk for local bottling. Taylor and other upstate New York wine producers had California wines shipped east (in unmarked cars) to be blended with the local product because the growing season was too short there to bring up the sugar to desirable levels, and I've been told (though I've seen no direct evidence) that the same practice was followed by wineries in Virginia and other eastern states as well. Wine tank cars would certainly not have been seen on branch lines in places like Kansas or Georgia. But there is abundant photographic evidence of them in the trains of the major transcontinental carriers that served California such as the Santa Fe, Union Pacific/C&NW, and Southern Pacific/Rock Island/T&NO/SSW, sometimes several of them at one time, en route to widely scattered destinations. Indeed, in some parts of California wine tank cars, like helium tank cars, were more commonly seen than coal hoppers, and much more commonly than milk reefers (which were, in fact, non-existent in the far west), difficult as that may be for easterners to imagine. If we can get injection-molded styrene "conversation pieces" like Pfaudler milk reefers, which are entirely useless to modelers of southern, southwestern, and western RRs, why not six compartment wine tank cars? Richard Hendrickson
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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Not entirely useless. Chateau Martin owned at least one Pfaudler steel 40'
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car, which I shot in Pine Bluff, AK. #CMWX 1008 Sadly, the date falls outside the range of this discussion group (Jan 75). -- Brian Ehni
If we can get injection-molded styrene
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PBowers <waiting@...>
At 11:38 PM 9/21/05, you wrote: If we can get injection-molded styrene
"conversation pieces" like Pfaudler milk reefers, which are entirelyRichard, Thank you for your excellent response! I have no problem with the production of models of any car. I also now better understand that the car fits well into more areas than I thought it would. Maybe not into Canada but definitely into the areas you mention. I know that each area can claim cars that would never fit into a lot of areas. Before the local Canadian Pacific line to Owen Sound was abandoned we had "L" cars used for transporting glass. These assigned service cars were mostly MP cars, 6 MP and 1 CP car if I remember correctly. These cars were all modified bulk end flat cars. I doubt if this one has been modelled often. Outside of these cars, about the only conversation piece in our area was a vinegar car. I guess it all comes down to if someone is willing to produce a car, even if it fits on to only one line, someone will buy it. Being a hobby we can be as prototypical or off the wall as we want to be. What is obscure to one is common to another. One of the many things that makes this hobby so interesting! Peter Bowers -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.4/109 - Release Date: 9/21/05
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Old Sourdough <pmeaton@...>
At 10:44 PM 9/21/2005 -0500, Brian wrote:
"Not entirely useless. Chateau Martin owned at least one Pfaudler steel 40' car, which I shot in Pine Bluff, AK. #CMWX 1008 Sadly, the date falls outside the range of this discussion group (Jan 75)." -- Brian Ehni ====================== Brian, I wish that I had known you were in Alaska photographing wine cars. I would have shown you a few other oddities that your camera may have liked. Many of those would have fit the time frame of this list, even in 1975. I would have had a great deal of trouble finding Pine Bluff, though. I don't think we have a town by that name here. Paul Eaton The Old Sourdough Ruksakinmakiak, Alaska, US of A
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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I wonder sometimes whether the "abundant photographic evidence" is more related to the oddity of a car than to quantity. Tim Gilbert
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ljack70117@...
On Sep 22, 2005, at 4:36 AM, Tim Gilbert wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:We had one come through the Emporia Ks yard on the Santa Fe one night. It was leaking. Interesting night that night.I wonder sometimes whether the "abundant photographic evidence" is more Thank you Larry Jackman ljack70117@adelphia.net It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end to end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them.
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armprem
Now if beer had been transported in tank cars,I might be
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interested.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gilbert" <tgilbert@sunlink.net> To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops Richard Hendrickson wrote:I wonder sometimes whether the "abundant photographic evidence" is more
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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Obviously, I made a mistake. AR is the abbreviation for Arkansas, not AK!
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LOL! (At least I know someone is reading these!!!!) -- Thanks! Brian Ehni
From: Old Sourdough <pmeaton@gci.net>
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Of course! But the fact remains that bulk wine travelled quite farI wonder sometimes whether the "abundant photographic evidence" and wide for the reasons Richard explained, and so the cars may be uncommon, but nevertheless -did- travel many routes. In fact there are still wine tank cars in service today, but they are big, black anonymous looking 25,000 gallon jobs (e.g. CWCX 00005, photographed at Canandiagua Wine in NY in 2004). Tim O'Connor
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Miller,Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
Brian,
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Is shooting a 40' Pfaudler milk car like shooting an intruder, or like shooting the bull ? ;-) regards, Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Paul Ehni Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:44 PM To: STMFC List Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops Not entirely useless. Chateau Martin owned at least one Pfaudler steel 40' car, which I shot in Pine Bluff, AK. #CMWX 1008 Sadly, the date falls outside the range of this discussion group (Jan 75). -- Brian Ehni
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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
Larry has already mentioned one leaking in a yard; how do you think they got
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that way? Seriously, I was using a camera at the time. -- Thanks! Brian Ehni
From: "Miller,Andrew S." <asmiller@mitre.org>
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ljack70117@...
On Sep 22, 2005, at 7:47 AM, armand wrote:
Now if beer had been transported in tank cars,I might beIt is is it not? Coors ships a lot of beer to the east coast for bottling. How does it go there? Although you use the term Beer very very loosely when you use it with the name Coors. Thank you Larry Jackman ljack70117@adelphia.net I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few
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Miller,Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
If you believe their current TV ad, they ship their beer in a special
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stainless steel train with a bullet-nose steam engine leaking refrigerant from every car! regards, Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ljack70117@adelphia.net Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:36 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops On Sep 22, 2005, at 7:47 AM, armand wrote: Now if beer had been transported in tank cars,I might beIt is is it not? Coors ships a lot of beer to the east coast for bottling. How does it go there? Although you use the term Beer very very loosely when you use it with the name Coors. Thank you Larry Jackman ljack70117@adelphia.net
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Richard Hendrickson
On Sep 21, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Andreas Kühnpast wrote:
....Would wine have been sent in barrels in reefers or would it haveBoth, depending on what the consignee wanted. Relatively small lots of several different wines would have gone in barrels in refrigerator cars (which weren't iced, or at least weren't iced much, since the objective was to maintain a constant "cellar temperature" around ±60° F). Even the separate compartments in a six compartment wine tank car held more than 1,000 gals. each, and that's a LOT of wine. Relatively few consignees were in a position to have bulk wine shipped in such large quantities. Richard Hendrickson
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Mr Charles burns
Hello Tim ,All
There was some discussion of winecars on this list a while back, and one post {gatx417?}had a Bob Morris photo of Fresno with many wine cars in view. So for the central valley in the 50s-60s at least,wine cars were not an oddity. This is enough of an excuse for me to build a 6 dome wine car for my N scale 64' Coastline layout. Charlie Burns --- Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@sunlink.net> wrote: Richard Hendrickson wrote:http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TMon branch lines in --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
__________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
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Couldn't a six-compartment tank car make as many as six deliveries
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to customers? I forget the name for this type of tarriff but I think that cars could make multiple stops to drop partial cargos. So if there were a small bottler in Gridley who buys wine in 1,000 gallon lots (enough for 1,000 large jugs of wine), then that might work... If you think about it, a small town of 1,000 people on average consumes somewhere around that amount of wine every year. Tim O'Connor
Because it developed a hotbox enroute from California to NY and had to
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