List,

In mid-June, I purchased a set of assembled Sargent Couplers
(#EC87A-125) along with the Magnetic Uncoupling Wand. The price for the
two items with shipping was $18.00. You get five assembled Type "E"
couplers. They work very well and are smaller in size than the Kadee
#58s. Even though I have not had the opportunity to mount them in a
piece of rolling stock, I was able to test how they work. These
couplers are all-metal and are a dark reddish-brown in color which at a
distance make the coupler look as if it were covered with rust.

In reality, they operate just like the prototype. They have a spring
located in the shank ahead of the mounting hole like the MKD-4 Kadee to
absorb the shock when the coupling is made. After uncoupling, they,
like the prototype do not return to center as the Kadee and other HO
couplers available do. They do not mate with other knuckle couplers due
to the size difference between a proto-87 coupler and the present
couplers available with the exception of the cast dummy couplers. The
manufacturer advises that with a little filling on the dummy coupler
knuckle, they will couple. To couple, they, like their prototype
cousins require the services of a brakeman to align the coupler and if
necessary to open one of the knuckles if both are closed. They will
couple if only one is open and both are properly aligned. The present
information sheet from Sergent advises that the current offerings are to
retrofit existing equipment. It is possible that they may offer draft
gear boxes in the future as they said "Stay Tuned!'

This coupler position and open/closed knuckle situation could be a
problem for anyone who has a fairly large hump, staging or flat switched
yard or any other location where the benchwork edge is more than an arms
length or the track centers are close at a distance with rolling stock
close on adjacent tracks. The distance benchwork edge to track
situation is going to be the determining factor as to whether anyone
will want to use these for operations, or just buy them for display
purposes in shows and contests. You have to be able to place the
magnetic wand over top of the coupler head to raise the steel ball out
of it's slot in the locking block in the coupler shank. This allows the
knuckle to open. When the knuckle closes, the steel ball drops back
into it's place and locks the knuckle closed. The prototype couplers
are designed the same way, except there is no steel ball to raise, just
the locking block which is actuated by the raising (or lowering,
depending on whether they are over or under-slung) of the cutting lever
on the car end. In an earlier discussion regarding the operation of
couplers, it was Larry Jackman who addressed the operation as to how
couplers lock and what has to occur to allow them to open. Many thanks
Larry, for making this clear to many who have not had the on the ground
experience in this area.

The ability to open them when they are mounted on passenger equipment
with diaphragms is a valid point. As Tim O'Connor mentioned, the
possible use of anisotropic magnets mounted on a wand designed for this
use and also mounted on an extended wand for distances would solve the
problems in both the passenger and freight situations. In regard to the
comment that the couplers have to be filed down to fit present draft
gear boxes: there was no mention of this in the paperwork that
accompanied the set that I received.

I'm sure that we all will be interested in what Jared Harper's results
as he begins to test these couplers in actual service. The big bugaboo
will be the ability to reach the cars and accurately get the wand into
position to uncouple the cars, or to be able to align couplers with the
cars buried in a yard more than two feet from the benchwork end. This
will really be a test of skill when humping cars, as you will only have
seconds to lift ball to uncouple the cars as they go over the hump or to
uncouple rear-end helpers on the fly. Most fellows that I know will not
use these couplers as they require the operator to get more involved in
the actual work of making and breaking up of trains and in switching
operations. The magnetic couplers in use today allow us to move along
quickly in an operating session, while use of the Sergent couplers will
bring us back to reality as nothing moves fast in actual railroad
switching and in train make-up and break-up operations. Just like the
Army - "Hurry Up and Wait!

But, for display and contest purposes, they cannot be beat! Hopefully,
Sergent will offer a scale draft gear box to make this superbly scaled
coupler. Do not get me wrong, the Quad 58/78 is a tremendous
improvement over the earlier #5 and I will use them until the Sargent is
proved to be good in operation and the problems are solved. Whether
they are depends on what others find when they use them. Jared, please
keep us up on what you find as it will be greatly appreciated!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@u...

If I understand you correctly, after application of the magnetic wand held above the
coupler or a surplus super-conducting collider magnet held even higher, one still has to
get access to the Sergent coupler's knuckle with a Howard Hughes' finger nail, dentil pick,
or bent paper clip to open it? Is this how they work? Man Oh Man. What a handy workable
design! At least it would eliminate the need for a "scale clock". Thanks for the engineering
analysis!!!!! Pat Wider

Hi Pat,

Not quite... Like a prototype coupler, when the
locking mechanism is lifted the knuckle is free to
open when the engineer pulls away. Also like a
prototype coupler, you *may* run into a recalcitrant
knuckle that doesn't want to open freely. So, to
continue our prototype analogy, do what you must to
break the joint and send it to the RIP track for
maintenance.

Best regards,

David E. Jobe, Sr.
St. Ann, Missouri


--- Patrick Wider <pwider@s...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Tom,

If I understand you correctly, after application of
the magnetic wand held above the
coupler or a surplus super-conducting collider magnet
held even higher, one still has to
get access to the Sergent coupler's knuckle with a
Howard Hughes' finger nail, dentil pick,
or bent paper clip to open it? Is this how they work?
Man Oh Man. What a handy workable
design! At least it would eliminate the need for a
"scale clock". Thanks for the engineering
analysis!!!!!

Pat Wider


--- In STMFC@..., "Thomas M. Olsen"
<tmolsen@U...> wrote:

List,

In mid-June, I purchased a set of assembled Sargent

Couplers

(#EC87A-125) along with the Magnetic Uncoupling

Wand. The price for the

two items with shipping was $18.00. You get five

assembled Type "E"

couplers. They work very well and are smaller in

size than the Kadee

#58s. Even though I have not had the opportunity

to mount them in a

piece of rolling stock, I was able to test how they

work. These

couplers are all-metal and are a dark reddish-brown

in color which at a

distance make the coupler look as if it were covered

with rust.

In reality, they operate just like the prototype.

They have a spring

located in the shank ahead of the mounting hole like

the MKD-4 Kadee to

absorb the shock when the coupling is made. After

uncoupling, they,

like the prototype do not return to center as the

Kadee and other HO

couplers available do. They do not mate with other

knuckle couplers due

to the size difference between a proto-87 coupler

and the present

couplers available with the exception of the cast

dummy couplers. The

manufacturer advises that with a little filling on

the dummy coupler

knuckle, they will couple. To couple, they, like

their prototype

cousins require the services of a brakeman to align

the coupler and if

necessary to open one of the knuckles if both are

closed. They will

couple if only one is open and both are properly

aligned. The present

information sheet from Sergent advises that the

current offerings are to

retrofit existing equipment. It is possible that

they may offer draft

gear boxes in the future as they said "Stay Tuned!'

This coupler position and open/closed knuckle

situation could be a

problem for anyone who has a fairly large hump,

staging or flat switched

yard or any other location where the benchwork edge

is more than an arms

length or the track centers are close at a distance

with rolling stock

close on adjacent tracks. The distance benchwork

edge to track

situation is going to be the determining factor as

to whether anyone

will want to use these for operations, or just buy

them for display

purposes in shows and contests. You have to be able

to place the

magnetic wand over top of the coupler head to raise

the steel ball out

of it's slot in the locking block in the coupler

shank. This allows the

knuckle to open. When the knuckle closes, the steel

ball drops back

into it's place and locks the knuckle closed. The

prototype couplers

are designed the same way, except there is no steel

ball to raise, just

the locking block which is actuated by the raising

(or lowering,

depending on whether they are over or under-slung)

of the cutting lever

on the car end. In an earlier discussion regarding

the operation of

couplers, it was Larry Jackman who addressed the

operation as to how

couplers lock and what has to occur to allow them to

open. Many thanks

Larry, for making this clear to many who have not

had the on the ground

experience in this area.

The ability to open them when they are mounted on

passenger equipment

with diaphragms is a valid point. As Tim O'Connor

mentioned, the

possible use of anisotropic magnets mounted on a

wand designed for this

use and also mounted on an extended wand for

distances would solve the

problems in both the passenger and freight

situations. In regard to the

comment that the couplers have to be filed down to

fit present draft

gear boxes: there was no mention of this in the

paperwork that

accompanied the set that I received.

I'm sure that we all will be interested in what

Jared Harper's results

as he begins to test these couplers in actual

service. The big bugaboo

will be the ability to reach the cars and accurately

get the wand into

position to uncouple the cars, or to be able to

align couplers with the

cars buried in a yard more than two feet from the

benchwork end. This

will really be a test of skill when humping cars, as

you will only have

seconds to lift ball to uncouple the cars as they go

over the hump or to

uncouple rear-end helpers on the fly. Most fellows

that I know will not

use these couplers as they require the operator to

get more involved in

the actual work of making and breaking up of trains

and in switching

operations. The magnetic couplers in use today

allow us to move along

quickly in an operating session, while use of the

Sergent couplers will

bring us back to reality as nothing moves fast in

actual railroad

switching and in train make-up and break-up

operations. Just like the

Army - "Hurry Up and Wait!

But, for display and contest purposes, they cannot

be beat! Hopefully,

Sergent will offer a scale draft gear box to make

this superbly scaled

coupler. Do not get me wrong, the Quad 58/78 is a

tremendous

improvement over the earlier #5 and I will use them

until the Sargent is

proved to be good in operation and the problems are

solved. Whether

they are depends on what others find when they use

them. Jared, please

keep us up on what you find as it will be greatly

appreciated!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@u...

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---------------------------------

http://www.irritatedvowel.com/Railroad/Details/Couplers/Default.aspx

Pat, from what I understand, the magnet raises the ball and a
pick of some kind moves the knuckle. (Everyone at the club uses
a pick to uncouple Kadees, because the magnets either don't work
or they're not located in the right spot, so I don't see this as much
of a change.)

Once the knuckle is open, it stays open, until another coupler comes
along and closes it, just like the prototype. So except for the diaphragm
issue (which goes away if one only uses Sergents on FREIGHT cars)
I don't see much practical difference compared to Kadees. (And most
layouts don't have hump yards either.)

Sergents are probably what I'll put in the front coupler position of my
brass steam engines, which have no provision for Kadees or any other
working front coupler.

Tim O.

Hi Dave,
I was thinking of two facing cars, apart some distance, with their knuckles
still closed.

But Pat, this begs the question: how did they get closed? They
only close (and lock) if some action is taken. I know this sounds
like a chicken/egg problem (because it is!) but normally the
knuckle remains open until the car is coupled to another car.

Hi Dave,
I was thinking of two facing cars, apart some distance, with their knuckles
still closed.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi Pat,

That's certainly a valid concern and makes more sense.
It's still a bit easier as the wand and pick are one
unit. A small stiff wire is fastened to the magnetic
end so the magnet would be above the coupler and the
wire could extend down into the coupler. Then you
need only twist it to open the knuckle making it a one
hand operation. As for avoiding the long reach and
snagging the wires on scale telephone poles that may
mean planning ahead for a particular move to remote
locations. It's certainly a problem I can appreciate
as I will have to avoid live overhead! But, at least
"we don't need no stinkin' diaphragms"...

David Jobe
Illinois Traction System

--- Patrick Wider <pwider@s...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Hi Dave,

I was thinking of two facing cars, apart some
distance, with their knuckles still closed. So,
like the prototype, I'd have to open one of them to
allow them to couple as opposed to
uncoupling them. So I have to hold the wand with one
hand and hold the dentil pick with
the other while leaning over my layout. All the while
not snagging the wires on the scale
telephone poles.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@..., Tangerine Flyer
<tangerine_flyer@s...> wrote:

Hi Pat,

Not quite... Like a prototype coupler, when the
locking mechanism is lifted the knuckle is free to
open when the engineer pulls away. Also like a
prototype coupler, you *may* run into a recalcitrant
knuckle that doesn't want to open freely. So, to
continue our prototype analogy, do what you must to
break the joint and send it to the RIP track for
maintenance.

Best regards,

David E. Jobe, Sr.
St. Ann, Missouri


--- Patrick Wider <pwider@s...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Tom,

If I understand you correctly, after application of
the magnetic wand held above the
coupler or a surplus super-conducting collider

magnet

held even higher, one still has to
get access to the Sergent coupler's knuckle with a
Howard Hughes' finger nail, dentil pick,
or bent paper clip to open it? Is this how they

work?

Man Oh Man. What a handy workable
design! At least it would eliminate the need for a
"scale clock". Thanks for the engineering
analysis!!!!!

Pat Wider


--- In STMFC@..., "Thomas M. Olsen"
<tmolsen@U...> wrote:

List,

In mid-June, I purchased a set of assembled

Sargent

Couplers

(#EC87A-125) along with the Magnetic Uncoupling

Wand. The price for the

two items with shipping was $18.00. You get five

assembled Type "E"

couplers. They work very well and are smaller in

size than the Kadee

#58s. Even though I have not had the opportunity

to mount them in a

piece of rolling stock, I was able to test how

they

work. These

couplers are all-metal and are a dark

reddish-brown

in color which at a

distance make the coupler look as if it were

covered

with rust.

In reality, they operate just like the prototype.

They have a spring

located in the shank ahead of the mounting hole

like

the MKD-4 Kadee to

absorb the shock when the coupling is made.

After

uncoupling, they,

like the prototype do not return to center as the

Kadee and other HO

couplers available do. They do not mate with

other

knuckle couplers due

to the size difference between a proto-87 coupler

and the present

couplers available with the exception of the cast

dummy couplers. The

manufacturer advises that with a little filling on

the dummy coupler

knuckle, they will couple. To couple, they, like

their prototype

cousins require the services of a brakeman to

align

the coupler and if

necessary to open one of the knuckles if both are

closed. They will

couple if only one is open and both are properly

aligned. The present

information sheet from Sergent advises that the

current offerings are to

retrofit existing equipment. It is possible that

they may offer draft

gear boxes in the future as they said "Stay

Tuned!'

This coupler position and open/closed knuckle

situation could be a

problem for anyone who has a fairly large hump,

staging or flat switched

yard or any other location where the benchwork

edge

is more than an arms

length or the track centers are close at a

distance

with rolling stock

close on adjacent tracks. The distance benchwork

edge to track

situation is going to be the determining factor as

to whether anyone

will want to use these for operations, or just buy

them for display

purposes in shows and contests. You have to be

able

to place the

magnetic wand over top of the coupler head to

raise

the steel ball out

of it's slot in the locking block in the coupler

shank. This allows the

knuckle to open. When the knuckle closes, the

steel

ball drops back

into it's place and locks the knuckle closed. The

prototype couplers

are designed the same way, except there is no

steel

ball to raise, just

the locking block which is actuated by the raising

(or lowering,

depending on whether they are over or under-slung)

of the cutting lever

on the car end. In an earlier discussion

regarding

the operation of

couplers, it was Larry Jackman who addressed the

operation as to how

couplers lock and what has to occur to allow them

to

open. Many thanks

Larry, for making this clear to many who have not

had the on the ground

experience in this area.

The ability to open them when they are mounted on

passenger equipment

with diaphragms is a valid point. As Tim O'Connor

mentioned, the

possible use of anisotropic magnets mounted on a

wand designed for this

use and also mounted on an extended wand for

distances would solve the

problems in both the passenger and freight

situations. In regard to the

comment that the couplers have to be filed down to

fit present draft

gear boxes: there was no mention of this in the

paperwork that

accompanied the set that I received.

I'm sure that we all will be interested in what

Jared Harper's results

as he begins to test these couplers in actual

service. The big bugaboo

will be the ability to reach the cars and

accurately

get the wand into

position to uncouple the cars, or to be able to

align couplers with the

cars buried in a yard more than two feet from the

benchwork end. This

will really be a test of skill when humping cars,

as

you will only have

seconds to lift ball to uncouple the cars as they

go

over the hump or to

uncouple rear-end helpers on the fly. Most

fellows

that I know will not

use these couplers as they require the operator to

get more involved in

the actual work of making and breaking up of

trains

and in switching

operations. The magnetic couplers in use today

allow us to move along

quickly in an operating session, while use of the

Sergent couplers will

bring us back to reality as nothing moves fast in

actual railroad

switching and in train make-up and break-up

operations. Just like the

Army - "Hurry Up and Wait!

But, for display and contest purposes, they cannot

be beat! Hopefully,

Sergent will offer a scale draft gear box to make

this superbly scaled

coupler. Do not get me wrong, the Quad 58/78 is

a

tremendous

improvement over the earlier #5 and I will use

them

until the Sargent is

proved to be good in operation and the problems

are

solved. Whether

they are depends on what others find when they use

them. Jared, please

keep us up on what you find as it will be greatly

appreciated!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@u...

SPONSORED LINKS

Worldwide travel insurance

Travel trailer insurance

International travel insurance

Travel insurance usa

Travel medical insurance

Csa travel insurance

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email

to:

STMFC-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the

Yahoo!

Terms of Service.


---------------------------------

SPONSORED LINKS

Worldwide travel insurance
Travel trailer insurance
International travel insurance

Travel insurance usa
Travel medical insurance
Csa travel insurance


---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.


---------------------------------

But Pat, this begs the question: how did they get closed? They
only close (and lock) if some action is taken. I know this sounds
like a chicken/egg problem (because it is!) but normally the
knuckle remains open until the car is coupled to another car.

Hi Dave,
I was thinking of two facing cars, apart some distance, with their knuckles
still closed.

I can ask the same question. How did they get open? Will one or the other be
open 100% of the time? Maybe not. I have a car in a siding - it just happens to
have a closed coupler. Like the prototype. Call it fate, gremlins, bad tea leaves,
who knows?

snagging the wires on scale telephone poles that may
mean planning ahead for a particular move to remote
locations. It's certainly a problem I can appreciate
as I will have to avoid live overhead! But, at least
"we don't need no stinkin' diaphragms"...

David Jobe
Illinois Traction System

Pat, in that circumstance, you wave your magic wand and open
each knuckle with that same device (which doubles as a pick), as
I said before. Is this practical? Only if the layout is designed so
that the location is accessible. I could ask a similar question about
coupling Kadees on a curve. (If you do switching inside tunnels,
I admit Kadees will usually work better in that case.)

Remember the car was spotted at the siding. When it was spotted
it had to be uncoupled. The uncoupling process opened the knuckle.
It stays open 99% of the time (on our layouts gravity is unable to
close the knuckle.) The other times you wave the wand. This doesn't
seem complicated to me. What am I missing?

I think the only functional difference between the Sergent and the
Reboxx coupler will be that the Reboxx will have a sprung knuckle
with an optional locking pin. I think the intent was to have the best
of both worlds. But since the Reboxx isn't available I'm guessing it
was harder to accomplish technically than was thought.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not converting to Sergents. But it's simply a
compatibility question. The Reboxx is intended to be compatible with
Kadee, but then I question whether it will be as prototypical looking
as the Sergent. If Sergents came in scale draft gear, I might actually
be inclined to convert.

Tim O'Connor

I can ask the same question. How did they get open? Will one or the other be
open 100% of the time? Maybe not. I have a car in a siding - it just happens to
have a closed coupler. Like the prototype. Call it fate, gremlins, bad tea leaves,
who knows?