Topics

Couplers, Coupler Pockets, and Trucks


S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---

Thanks!

Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---
Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they could. I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring groups and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack Spencer rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks? Continuous improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider


S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

Pat Wider!

When I cut my teeth in model railroading, American Flyer had chrome plated journal boxes on sheet steel sideframe trucks. The first time I ever saw real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or something. Heck, even those ugly looking Silver Streak trucks looked good.

So, there you go. I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real springs.

P.S. - love your research work and articles---

Steve Busch
Duncan, SC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Wider" <pwider@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, and Trucks


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---
Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they could. I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring groups and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack Spencer rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks? Continuous improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

That's fine - then just make them look like real springs! And thanks for the kind words!

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Pat Wider!

When I cut my teeth in model railroading, American Flyer had chrome plated
journal boxes on sheet steel sideframe trucks. The first time I ever saw
real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or something.
Heck, even those ugly looking Silver Streak trucks looked good.

So, there you go. I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real
springs.

P.S. - love your research work and articles---

Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Wider" <pwider@s...>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, and Trucks


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---
Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs
anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they could.
I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those
spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring groups
and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack Spencer
rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco
driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with
concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I
think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks? Continuous
improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider


Tim O'Connor
 

Pat, I was at Michael's (a craft store) the other day and noticed
they have a wide selection of small gage wire on spools that may
be perfect for making non-functional replacement springs. I got
some for making baled-wire loads for gondolas. They stock it in
the bead jewelry section.

I agree I hate the truck springs and think the Kadees roll badly,
but they're also great looking trucks! I toss the Kadee wheels
and replace with Reboxx, which improves them considerably in
both rolling quality and appearance. Step 2 will be to replace
the springs.

Tim O'Connor


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

When I cut my teeth in model railroading, American Flyer had chrome plated
journal boxes on sheet steel sideframe trucks.
My first experience was with nickel-plated rails - three of them with 27" diameter curves.

The first time I ever saw
real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or something.
Me too!

I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real springs.
I'd prefer real prototype springs but I don't think they'd fit plus they'd collapse my
benchwork. (-:}

Pat Wider


David Jobe, Sr.
 

Hi Pat,

Coming back to your earlier point about sprung and
equalized trucks I'll agree that at our scale sizes
there's negligible compression of the springs and I
would also like to see a different size/material to
make the springs more visually realistic regardless of
their functionality. However, the trucks are quite
capable to provide equalization, just not out of the
package.

It's a simple matter to disassemble the trucks,
carefully clean the flash off of the castings, and
reassemble. This was one of the very first jobs my
father gave me to begin my transition from tinplate to
scale modeling at around 7 years old. He set up a
work area for me with a hard tempered masonite work
surface held in place with ordinary masking tape. The
trucks were deemed acceptable when they could roll
diagonally across that 1/8 inch height differential
*AND* all four wheels maintained contact with their
respective surface. At the time it gave this
youngster quite a sense of accomplishment and
confidence.

Obviosusly, that extreme of equalization is not
necessary, but the flexibility of equalization is
nonetheless invaluable. If the wheels are in constant
contact with the rail they're far less likely to
derail. And, in the case of a locomotive and DCC, the
benefit of improved contact due to equalization
results in more reliable operation.

Cheers,

David Jobe
St. Ann, Missouri


--- Patrick Wider <pwider@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


---------------------------------
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch"
<SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---
Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to
compress the springs anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as
well as they could. I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please
replace those spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking
through the spring groups and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's
blinding. Jack Spencer rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people
use brass loco driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley
made trucks with concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well.
Phosphor bronze I think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their
trucks? Continuous improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider





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---------------------------------


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

Thanks Dave,

I've never had a truck derail due to lack of equalization. I've spent lots of time perfecting
my track alignment (on a layout now existing in my fading memory). Most HO "sprung"
trucks right out of the blister pack don't work as intended, don't look right, and don't even
have brake shoes. They don't belong on an otherwise accurate scale model. Period.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tangerine Flyer <tangerine_flyer@s...> wrote:

Hi Pat,

Coming back to your earlier point about sprung and
equalized trucks I'll agree that at our scale sizes
there's negligible compression of the springs and I
would also like to see a different size/material to
make the springs more visually realistic regardless of
their functionality. However, the trucks are quite
capable to provide equalization, just not out of the
package.

It's a simple matter to disassemble the trucks,
carefully clean the flash off of the castings, and
reassemble. This was one of the very first jobs my
father gave me to begin my transition from tinplate to
scale modeling at around 7 years old. He set up a
work area for me with a hard tempered masonite work
surface held in place with ordinary masking tape. The
trucks were deemed acceptable when they could roll
diagonally across that 1/8 inch height differential
*AND* all four wheels maintained contact with their
respective surface. At the time it gave this
youngster quite a sense of accomplishment and
confidence.

Obviosusly, that extreme of equalization is not
necessary, but the flexibility of equalization is
nonetheless invaluable. If the wheels are in constant
contact with the rail they're far less likely to
derail. And, in the case of a locomotive and DCC, the
benefit of improved contact due to equalization
results in more reliable operation.

Cheers,

David Jobe
St. Ann, Missouri


--- Patrick Wider <pwider@s...> wrote:


---------------------------------
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch"
<SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---
Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to
compress the springs anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as
well as they could. I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please
replace those spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking
through the spring groups and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's
blinding. Jack Spencer rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people
use brass loco driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley
made trucks with concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well.
Phosphor bronze I think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their
trucks? Continuous improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider





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Travel trailer insurance
International travel insurance

Travel insurance usa
Travel medical insurance
Csa travel insurance


---------------------------------
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Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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---------------------------------


Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Pat,

While we are petitioning Kadee for unsprung trucks, let us ask them to
modify their truck bolsters so that we can add the brakeshoe clip-ons
that they make for the PS-1 box cars that they make. I was able to get
about 200 of the clip-ons from them several years ago. When they
arrived we divided them up amongst three of us. Unfortunately, they no
longer sell them in bulk, but in packages with enough for two cars.

It would be nice to have them available with the trucks with the
bolsters modified for them from the beginning. At present you have
trucks with brake beams cast on, but no shoes and a big air gap between
the truck sideframe and the wheelsets.

Tom Olsen
& Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Patrick Wider wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:


Please Mr. Sam At Kadee,

Yes, I vote for the 78s in bulk, too, as well as :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---

Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they could. I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring groups and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack Spencer rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks? Continuous improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider







Yahoo! Groups Links










Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Guyz,

You've made my day. Was beginning to think I was one of the last who remembered bent metal tabs & slots for couplers.

What a lot of modelers would find useful are some leaf spring replacements for Kadee trucks. The last ones I have came in a Silver Streak box.

Another item is to put a black blank panel behind the truck springs, this eliminates the daylight issue with the coil springs.

IIRC, the first sprung trucks purchased came in a Binkley kit.

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Wider
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, and Trucks


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:
>
> When I cut my teeth in model railroading, American Flyer had chrome plated
> journal boxes on sheet steel sideframe trucks.

My first experience was with nickel-plated rails - three of them with 27" diameter curves.

The first time I ever saw
> real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or something.

Me too!

> I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real springs.

I'd prefer real prototype springs but I don't think they'd fit plus they'd collapse my
benchwork. (-:}

Pat Wider







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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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Schuyler Larrabee
 

On
Behalf Of Thomas M. Olsen

While we are petitioning Kadee for unsprung trucks,
Hold on there . . .not all of us agree on that point. I like the sprung trucks (and I DO see them
equalizing as the train moves along) but I agree about the lacy character of the springs themselves.
It seems to me that a Really Good Materials Guy (Hey, Tony??) should be able to come up with some
form of plastic that could be molded or extruded or something into springs with appropriate
dimensional characteristics, and low enough spring rate, so as to make the trucks actually compress.
Now, they'd have to compress at a rate so that a properly weighted car would do the trick, so we'd
have to be faithful to the NMRA weighting rules.

let us
ask them to modify their truck bolsters so that we can add
the brakeshoe clip-ons that they make for the PS-1 box cars
that they make.
I do agree with this.

SGL


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

At the risk of going slightly off subject, D&G makes HO-scale passenger car trucks such
that their springs actually compress and the trucks actually equalize. And in case there's
still any lingering doubt due to my screw-up: THE COMPANY IS STILL IN BUSINESS!!!!!

Perhaps there's hope for "equalized" freight car trucks. Schuyler, you say you can actually
see your trucks equalize as they go down the track? That doesn't say much for your
trackwork. What scale are you in?

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@v...> wrote:


On
Behalf Of Thomas M. Olsen

While we are petitioning Kadee for unsprung trucks,
Hold on there . . .not all of us agree on that point. I like the sprung trucks (and I DO see
them
equalizing as the train moves along) but I agree about the lacy character of the springs
themselves.
It seems to me that a Really Good Materials Guy (Hey, Tony??) should be able to come up
with some
form of plastic that could be molded or extruded or something into springs with
appropriate
dimensional characteristics, and low enough spring rate, so as to make the trucks
actually compress.
Now, they'd have to compress at a rate so that a properly weighted car would do the
trick, so we'd
have to be faithful to the NMRA weighting rules.

let us
ask them to modify their truck bolsters so that we can add
the brakeshoe clip-ons that they make for the PS-1 box cars
that they make.
I do agree with this.

SGL


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Perhaps there's hope for "equalized" freight car trucks.
Schuyler, you say you can actually see your trucks equalize
as they go down the track? That doesn't say much for your
trackwork. What scale are you in?

Pat Wider
HO, Pat, and my club's got VERY good track work, laid almost exclusively by one man who's got Very
High Standards. But even on very good trackwork there are occasional joints that don't PERFECTLY
match, and switchwork with high numbers, where equalization does help, and id visible. Mostly, the
trucks that do have the equalization are the Dan Kilgore trucks, which have pretty wimpy springs. I
don't have trackwork of my own (except for the small amount I've laid at the Club).

I do believe there's a market, small, maybe, for a line of Really Superb Scale Trucks. Springs with
appropriate visual density, low spring rates, all the parts (brakeshoes, etc) and that if these were
available at a not-too-stratospheric price, changing out trucks would be as common as it used to be
to toss the x2f's as far as one could, and replace with Kadees.


SGL


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

SGL, you don't mind if I call you "S"?

Amen to everything you said!!! My eyesight is getting so bad I'm lucky if I can see the
derailed car in a long string. I wondered how the heck you could see the truck sideframes
moving around. You must be a young snot!!!!! <g>

Pat Wider

HO, Pat, and my club's got VERY good track work, laid almost exclusively by one man
who's got Very
High Standards. But even on very good trackwork there are occasional joints that don't
PERFECTLY
match, and switchwork with high numbers, where equalization does help, and id visible.
Mostly, the
trucks that do have the equalization are the Dan Kilgore trucks, which have pretty
wimpy springs. I
don't have trackwork of my own (except for the small amount I've laid at the Club).

I do believe there's a market, small, maybe, for a line of Really Superb Scale Trucks.
Springs with
appropriate visual density, low spring rates, all the parts (brakeshoes, etc) and that if
these were
available at a not-too-stratospheric price, changing out trucks would be as common as
it used to be
to toss the x2f's as far as one could, and replace with Kadees.


SGL


Andy Carlson
 

Interesting side note: the "G" in D&G is for Jim
Gerstley, the one who has graciously shared his 50's
color freight car slides with us.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Patrick Wider <pwider@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

At the risk of going slightly off subject, D&G makes
HO-scale passenger car trucks such
that their springs actually compress and the trucks
actually equalize. And in case there's
still any lingering doubt due to my screw-up: THE
COMPANY IS STILL IN BUSINESS!!!!!


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, P, I can't see them as well as I used to be able to. 57 isn't just Heinz's varieties!

SGL
Schuyler G Larrabee, in case Yahoo mail doesn't disclose the name of the sender . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Patrick Wider
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:05 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Couplers, Coupler Pockets, and Trucks

SGL, you don't mind if I call you "S"?

Amen to everything you said!!! My eyesight is getting so bad
I'm lucky if I can see the derailed car in a long string. I
wondered how the heck you could see the truck sideframes
moving around. You must be a young snot!!!!! <g>

Pat Wider

HO, Pat, and my club's got VERY good track work, laid almost
exclusively by one man
who's got Very
High Standards. But even on very good trackwork there are
occasional
joints that don't
PERFECTLY
match, and switchwork with high numbers, where equalization
does help, and id visible.
Mostly, the
trucks that do have the equalization are the Dan Kilgore
trucks, which
have pretty
wimpy springs. I
don't have trackwork of my own (except for the small amount
I've laid at the Club).

I do believe there's a market, small, maybe, for a line of
Really Superb Scale Trucks.
Springs with
appropriate visual density, low spring rates, all the parts
(brakeshoes, etc) and that if
these were
available at a not-too-stratospheric price, changing out
trucks would
be as common as
it used to be
to toss the x2f's as far as one could, and replace with Kadees.


SGL





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Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

Some 20 years ago, I experimented with replacing Kadee truck springs with Kadee #5/10 knuckle coupler springs. They really flexed on a light weight wood model. I ran the car with no derailments but never expanded the scope of the experiment. I like the way Kadee trucks look WITH the springs!

On Oct 7, 2005, at 9:44 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:


On
Behalf Of Thomas M. Olsen

While we are petitioning Kadee for unsprung trucks,
Hold on there . . .not all of us agree on that point. I like the sprung trucks (and I DO see them
equalizing as the train moves along) but I agree about the lacy character of the springs themselves.
It seems to me that a Really Good Materials Guy (Hey, Tony??) should be able to come up with some
form of plastic that could be molded or extruded or something into springs with appropriate
dimensional characteristics, and low enough spring rate, so as to make the trucks actually compress.
Now, they'd have to compress at a rate so that a properly weighted car would do the trick, so we'd
have to be faithful to the NMRA weighting rules.

let us
ask them to modify their truck bolsters so that we can add
the brakeshoe clip-ons that they make for the PS-1 box cars
that they make.
I do agree with this.

SGL





Yahoo! Groups Links







george30045
 

--- Patrick Wider <pwider@s...> wrote:

At the risk of going slightly off subject, D&G makes
HO-scale passenger car trucks such
that their springs actually compress and the trucks
actually equalize. And in case there's
still any lingering doubt due to my screw-up: THE
COMPANY IS STILL IN BUSINESS!!!!!
I have Used the D&G trucks on quite a few models of passenger cars and
I really like them. They are truly works of art from any perspective;
aesthetic AND operational.

Demetre Argiro