Plain Boxcars in Mail Service - 1945


Shawn Beckert
 

List,

One of the latest images posted on the Los Angeles Public
Library web site shows ordinary boxcars being loaded with
Christmas mail on the Union Pacific in Los Angeles, headed
for the east coast. The picture is dated December 4, 1945:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg

Obviously you couldn't get away with this on your layout in
everyday operations, but you could certainly do it during
the holidays, without getting nabbed by the Proto-Police...

Shawn Beckert


Scott Pitzer
 

I can smell the paint on the UP cars... at least I can see the guide lines for the lettering!

Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com>
Sent: Nov 14, 2005 3:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Plain Boxcars in Mail Service - 1945

List,

One of the latest images posted on the Los Angeles Public
Library web site shows ordinary boxcars being loaded with
Christmas mail on the Union Pacific in Los Angeles, headed
for the east coast. The picture is dated December 4, 1945:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg

Obviously you couldn't get away with this on your layout in
everyday operations, but you could certainly do it during
the holidays, without getting nabbed by the Proto-Police...

Shawn Beckert









Yahoo! Groups Links


Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Shawn,

PRR did it all the time. There were X29's assigned to mail service, but if more were needed, well, since they had no steam lines, they went at the rear of the train.

Then there was the Christmas mail from New York to New Orleans in two X29's that was supposed to be transferred to a SOU baggage car in the DC Post Office and was not. But, wait, that was after 1960....

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 6:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Plain Boxcars in Mail Service - 1945


List,

One of the latest images posted on the Los Angeles Public
Library web site shows ordinary boxcars being loaded with
Christmas mail on the Union Pacific in Los Angeles, headed
for the east coast. The picture is dated December 4, 1945:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg

Obviously you couldn't get away with this on your layout in
everyday operations, but you could certainly do it during
the holidays, without getting nabbed by the Proto-Police...

Shawn Beckert









Yahoo! Groups Links







Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

I wonder if passenger trains handling these cars on the rear got a
speed restriction.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

I can smell the paint on the UP cars... at least I can see the
guide lines for the lettering!

Scott Pitzer


-----Original Message-----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
Sent: Nov 14, 2005 3:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Plain Boxcars in Mail Service - 1945

List,

One of the latest images posted on the Los Angeles Public
Library web site shows ordinary boxcars being loaded with
Christmas mail on the Union Pacific in Los Angeles, headed
for the east coast. The picture is dated December 4, 1945:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg

Obviously you couldn't get away with this on your layout in
everyday operations, but you could certainly do it during
the holidays, without getting nabbed by the Proto-Police...

Shawn Beckert









Yahoo! Groups Links


ljack70117@...
 

On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:44 AM, Bill McCoy wrote:

I wonder if passenger trains handling these cars on the rear got a
speed restriction.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:
Passenger trains operated with 110 pounds air pressure on the train line. That would have to be changed to 90 pounds for mixed train pressure. That would mean changing each car's air control valve. I do not remember the speed limit on mixed trains. At least that is the way the UPRR handled it in the 40's and 50's.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
Shin: A device for finding furniture in the dark.


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Shawn Beckert refered a photo showing non-express boxcars being loaded with Christmas mail at Los Angeles in 1945. Here - http://users.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfr34.jpg - is the Santa Fe doing the same thing with freight reefers at San Bernardino in December 1948. Prints of this photo from the Jack Whitmeyer collection are available from the Santa Fe historical society at atsfrr.net.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
Phone: 262-796-8776, ex. 461
Fax: 262-796-1142
www.modelrailroader.com


Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

I'm not sure how "plain" the plain boxcars are. Note the baggage car in line. If I'm not mistaken, this is one of the UP boxcars fitted for express service. If you look past the ERIE car, the next car looks awfully like a new paint job too. Were ERIE cars also fitted for express?

In any case, I wonder even if these cars would have been in passenger trains per se. My guess is that there would be solid blocks to terminals and be on secondary trains at best - meaning speed restrictions wouldn't be an issue.


At 05:44 AM 11/15/2005, you wrote:
I wonder if passenger trains handling these cars on the rear got a
speed restriction.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

I can smell the paint on the UP cars... at least I can see the
guide lines for the lettering!

Scott Pitzer


-----Original Message-----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
Sent: Nov 14, 2005 3:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Plain Boxcars in Mail Service - 1945

List,

One of the latest images posted on the Los Angeles Public
Library web site shows ordinary boxcars being loaded with
Christmas mail on the Union Pacific in Los Angeles, headed
for the east coast. The picture is dated December 4, 1945:

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg

Obviously you couldn't get away with this on your layout in
everyday operations, but you could certainly do it during
the holidays, without getting nabbed by the Proto-Police...

Shawn Beckert









Yahoo! Groups Links








Yahoo! Groups Links



Bob Webber


Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@m...> wrote:

Shawn Beckert refered a photo showing non-express boxcars being loaded
with Christmas mail at Los Angeles in 1945.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics45/00057025.jpg
Here -
http://users.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfr34.jpg
- is the Santa Fe doing the same thing with freight reefers at San Bernardino in December 1948. Prints of this photo from the Jack Whitmeyer collection are available from the Santa Fe historical society at atsfrr.net.

So long,

Andy
There has been a parallel discussion over on the PassengerCarList about the use of baggage cars and express cars for carrying mail. One point that was made was that First Class Mail went in 3/4 size pouches with provisions for locks, locked if they contained any Registered Mail or Special Delivery; second class and lower, including Parcel Post went in draw string bags. I'm not seeing any pouches in either if these photos, so I assume that this is all second and lower class mail, they kind that used to take more than a few days to be delivered. Anyone else remember when you used to be able to send Christmas cards for a lower rate if the envelope wasn't sealed?


Dennis Storzek


Tony Thompson
 

Andy Sperandeo wrote:
Shawn Beckert refered a photo showing non-express boxcars being loaded with Christmas mail at Los Angeles in 1945.
Lest this be thought a WW II phenomenon, there is a photo of a PFE reefer being loaded with mail at LA in the 2nd edition of the PFE book, page 424. It's a Morris Abowitz photo from the 1960s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

I remember working in to PO during Christmas break when I was home
from college. There were many unsealed Xmas cards and they frequently
jammed in the canceling machine. The machine had counter rotating
rubber wheels to peel of one envelope at a time from the stack. The
unsealed envelopes would often be shredded by the process.

Did you ever wonder why so many friends claimed you never sent a card?

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
Anyone else remember when you used to be able to
send Christmas cards for a lower rate if the envelope wasn't sealed?


Dennis Storzek


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Loading a reefer with mail was not unusual. Loading it in LA was.
That's fruit and vegetable country and reefers had better uses. I have
been told it was very common for reefers on the east coast to be sent
back to CA with all sorts of other loads, including mail. It beat
sending them back empty.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:58 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Plain Boxcars in Mail Service - 1945

Andy Sperandeo wrote:
Shawn Beckert refered a photo showing non-express boxcars being
loaded
with Christmas mail at Los Angeles in 1945.
Lest this be thought a WW II phenomenon, there is a photo of a
PFE reefer being loaded with mail at LA in the 2nd edition of the PFE
book, page 424. It's a Morris Abowitz photo from the 1960s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history






Yahoo! Groups Links


Tony Thompson
 

Andy Miller. wrote:
Loading a reefer with mail was not unusual. Loading it in LA was.
That's fruit and vegetable country and reefers had better uses.
Not quite as much in December, Andy. <g>

I have
been told it was very common for reefers on the east coast to be sent
back to CA with all sorts of other loads, including mail. It beat
sending them back empty.
Sort of true. Westbound loaded cars were about 20 per cent of the total, year in and year out; and remember, PFE got paid for mileage, loaded or empty. Their biggest priority by far was to get cars back west, to provide to shippers, whose cargo could NOT wait. Westbound load revenue was just not significant by comparison. The same was true, of course, for SFRD.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

You mean it gets cold in CA in December? All the propaganda about CA
weather, on which I was brought up is not true?! Next thing I know
you'll tell me people ski in California! ;-)


regards,

Andy Miller (in Boston)

-----Original Message-----

Not quite as much in December, Andy. <g>

I have
been told it was very common for reefers on the east coast to be sent
back to CA with all sorts of other loads, including mail. It beat
sending them back empty.
Sort of true. Westbound loaded cars were about 20 per cent of
the total, year in and year out; and remember, PFE got paid for
mileage, loaded or empty. Their biggest priority by far was to get cars

back west, to provide to shippers, whose cargo could NOT wait.
Westbound load revenue was just not significant by comparison. The same

was true, of course, for SFRD.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history






Yahoo! Groups Links


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Andy,

Californians used to ski, but that was before all the hot air from Sacramento raised the temperature. ;-)

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Miller, Andrew S. wrote:

You mean it gets cold in CA in December? All the propaganda about CA
weather, on which I was brought up is not true?! Next thing I know
you'll tell me people ski in California! ;-)


regards,
Andy Miller (in Boston)




Shawn Beckert
 

Andy in Boston asked:

You mean it gets cold in CA in December? All the propaganda
about CA weather, on which I was brought up is not true?!
Next thing I know you'll tell me people ski in California! ;-)
We'll have to see about December, but today it's headed for the
high 80's and the Santa Ana's have kicked in. We're running around
in shorts and T-shirts getting all the Thanksgiving fixin's together.

Yep, California...

On a freightcar note <g>, it's too bad we can't see any car
numbers in that photo at Los Angeles. Since general service
boxcars don't have steam and signal lines, I have to assume
these cars will be placed at the rear of the train, maybe with a
rider coach or caboose. There's nothing in the photo to tell us
whether they're specially equipped for express service.

Shawn Beckert (in Beautiful Downtown Burbank)


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson writes:


Lest this be thought a WW II phenomenon, there is a photo of a
PFE reefer being loaded with mail at LA in the 2nd edition of the PFE
book, page 424. It's a Morris Abowitz photo from the 1960s.
Not only that. The late Terry Metcalfe's UP Modeler, Vol 1, shows photos of the consist of the UP Fast Mail in 1957 in Nebraska. Included is SP 5713 box car fitted with steam lines in this case so one might not consider it to be a "plain" box car.

Mike Brock


Shawn Beckert
 

Mike Brock wrote:

The late Terry Metcalfe's UP Modeler, Vol 1, shows photos of
the consist of the UP Fast Mail in 1957 in Nebraska. Included
is SP 5713 box car fitted with steam lines in this case so one
might not consider it to be a "plain" box car.
I don't have a roster in front of me, but I think the 5700 series
were B-50-24's that were built for express and "Overnight" service.
Thus they would have had steam and signal hoses from the get go.

Shawn Beckert


SUVCWORR@...
 

<snip> Anyone else remember when you used to be able to
send Christmas cards for a lower rate if the envelope wasn't sealed?


Dennis Storzek


Yes, and delivery three times a day the two weeks prior to Christmas.

Rich Orr


SUVCWORR@...
 

<snip> Anyone else remember when you used to be able to
send Christmas cards for a lower rate if the envelope wasn't sealed?


Dennis Storzek


Yes, and delivery three times a day the two weeks prior to Christmas.

Rich Orr


Tim O'Connor
 

Shawn

BE-50-24's were express cars. B-50-24's were Overnight box cars. Some
BE-50-24's remained in that role into the late 1960's, long after the end
of Overnight service.

Tim O.

I don't have a roster in front of me, but I think the 5700 series
were B-50-24's that were built for express and "Overnight" service.