Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola


Shawn Beckert
 

Guys,

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an 11-panel
40' AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can see
their drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page
at www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has been
done by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can
only assume that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because
they feel they can compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.


Shawn Beckert, wondering who makes these decisions...


Andy Carlson
 

Shawn,
The two markets are vastly different. Remember the
Sunshine Greenville 52' Gondola? LifeLike has sold
10's of thousands of this car, even after Martin had
"flooded" the market with his 100's of kits. Accurail
can be ordered by dozens of distributors allowing LHS
across the country to stock an item, whereas only 2 or
3 hobby stores carry Sunshine kits.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com> wrote:

Guys,

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced
an 11-panel
40' AAR gondola to be released late next year
(maybe). You can see
their drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming
releases" page
at www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR
gondola has been
done by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece
body. I can
only assume that Accurail would go ahead with this
kit because
they feel they can compete with Sunshine in the area
of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well,
only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there
are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.


Shawn Beckert, wondering who makes these
decisions...


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop
AIDS now.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

There are two completely different markets here. The first is the RTR or
almost RTR crowd and the second comprises those that want something
else; Sunshine dont sell to the former and Accurail dont generally
sell to the latter unless its as kitbashing materials. If Accurail can
make money on this product then more power to their elbow a gon was
missing from their range, so they may as well pick one that has as wide
an appeal as any.



Aidrian

-----Original Message-----
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.


Shawn Beckert, wondering who makes these decisions...



_____


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date:
11/27/2005



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date:
11/27/2005



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 28, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an 11-panel
40' AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can see
their drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page
at www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has been
done by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can
only assume that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because
they feel they can compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.
In addition to the points Andy Carlson made in his response to this
post, let me add that there are two very large differences between
Accurail (or any other) styrene models and Sunshine kits. (1) They're
ready to run out of the box and (2) they're factory painted and
lettered. The vast majority of model railroaders are terrified at the
prospect of having to paint and letter their models. They lack the
necessary equipment (spray booth, air brush, compressor, etc.), they
lack the skills, and – most important – they're convinced they can't do
it, or at least that they can't get acceptable results, so (of course)
they're right, they'll never be able to do it as long as they believe
they can't.

Richard Hendrickson


Shawn Beckert
 

Adrian wrote:

There are two completely different markets here. The first is the RTR or
almost RTR crowd and the second comprises those that want something
else...
<snip>

Obviously, it all comes down to pricing and laziness <g>. With a one-piece
body, the Sunshine kit isn't THAT hard to build, except for possibly the
brake rigging. But Accurail will probably sell their version for $11.00,
while Martin needs to charge...what, $30-35? So it's almost a 3-for-1 deal
for the RTR guys. To each his own...

Shawn Beckert


Jack Burgess
 

Shawn wrote:

Obviously, it all comes down to pricing and laziness <g>. With a one-piece
body, the Sunshine kit isn't THAT hard to build, except for possibly the
brake rigging. But Accurail will probably sell their version for $11.00,
while Martin needs to charge...what, $30-35? So it's almost a 3-for-1 deal
for the RTR guys. To each his own...
I would say that it comes down to pricing, preferences, and skills. There
are a lot of model railroaders who enjoy scenery and kitbashing structures
over building accurate freight car models. There are also a lot of modelers
who enjoy operation over everything else. Remember the excuse, "You can't
use scale models in operating sessions since operators will pick them up and
break all of the details. And, if I can't see it, why model it?"

We are lucky that there are enough modelers who BUILD actual models to keep
Martin, Al, and others in business....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


armprem
 

Richard,I couldn't agree with you more.However there are other things to
consider.Time is an asset.Many hobbiest do not have the time as well as the
skill to build a reasonable sized roster without some ready to run models.We
can not lump all ready to run models into one category.Some of the latest
Intermountain releases are very accurate and Kadee ready to run models can
equal or surpass any craftsman resin kit.FWIW,Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola


On Nov 28, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an 11-panel
40' AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can see
their drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page
at www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has been
done by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can
only assume that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because
they feel they can compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.
In addition to the points Andy Carlson made in his response to this
post, let me add that there are two very large differences between
Accurail (or any other) styrene models and Sunshine kits. (1) They're
ready to run out of the box and (2) they're factory painted and
lettered. The vast majority of model railroaders are terrified at the
prospect of having to paint and letter their models. They lack the
necessary equipment (spray booth, air brush, compressor, etc.), they
lack the skills, and � most important � they're convinced they can't do
it, or at least that they can't get acceptable results, so (of course)
they're right, they'll never be able to do it as long as they believe
they can't.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links


Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

An besides, what would you practice weathering on, not a Sunshine kit.
I much prefer to develop techniques on less expensive models.

On Nov 28, 2005, at 8:55 PM, armand premo wrote:

Richard,I couldn't agree with you more.However there are other
things to
consider.Time is an asset.Many hobbiest do not have the time as well
as the
skill to build a reasonable sized roster without some ready to run
models.We
can not lump all ready to run models into one category.Some of the
latest
Intermountain releases are very accurate and Kadee ready to run models
can
equal or surpass any craftsman resin kit.FWIW,Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola


On Nov 28, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an 11-panel
40' AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can see
their drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page
at www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has been
done by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can
only assume that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because
they feel they can compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.
In addition to the points Andy Carlson made in his response to this
post, let me add that there are two very large differences between
Accurail (or any other) styrene models and Sunshine kits. (1) They're
ready to run out of the box and (2) they're factory painted and
lettered. The vast majority of model railroaders are terrified at the
prospect of having to paint and letter their models. They lack the
necessary equipment (spray booth, air brush, compressor, etc.), they
lack the skills, and – most important – they're convinced they can't do
it, or at least that they can't get acceptable results, so (of course)
they're right, they'll never be able to do it as long as they believe
they can't.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links






Bruce Smith
 

On Mon, November 28, 2005 7:36 pm, Beckert, Shawn wrote:
Obviously, it all comes down to pricing and laziness <g>. With a one-piece
body, the Sunshine kit isn't THAT hard to build, except for possibly the
brake rigging. But Accurail will probably sell their version for $11.00,
while Martin needs to charge...what, $30-35? So it's almost a 3-for-1 deal
for the RTR guys. To each his own...
Shawn,

Given the <G>, I'm sure that you didn't mean to offend, but you're
starting to sound like my local NMRA vesties... ("if it ain't
scratchbuilt, it ain't modeling")

As you say at the end, to each his own. It sounds like the Accurail gons
will be excellent fodder for an accurate fleet. For 1/3 the price and a
little MODELING, I can add wire grabs, brakes gear and other details while
preserving what I hope will be accurate paint and lettering. I'm trying
to build a 500 car freight car fleet and somehow detailing a RTR car here
and there to match the resin standards just doesn't make me think of
myself as "lazy"... perhaps practical, perhaps frugal, perhaps smart, but
no, definitely not lazy ;^) Heck, I might even get to my goal before I
die...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

[Note to moderator: This is *not* meant as a political statement]

Bruce, remember that when Reagan and the US Navy had the goal in terms of the US Navy and the 500 (and later more) ship Navy. The goal ultimately worked, but the cost was fairly high. And some of the specific units were not quite up to par. Now, I do not want to get into (yet another) discussion on ships, it's rather a statement on goal setting at the expense of individual bricks that make up that goal. Nor am I implying that you would - or are - bypassing quality for quantity. It's simply a blast from the past that makes one remember....

At 08:56 PM 11/28/2005, you wrote:
I'm trying
to build a 500 car freight car fleet and somehow detailing a RTR car here
and there to match the resin standards just doesn't make me think of
myself as "lazy"... perhaps practical, perhaps frugal, perhaps smart, but
no, definitely not lazy ;^) Heck, I might even get to my goal before I
die...

Regards
Bruce
Bob Webber


Tim O'Connor
 

As you say at the end, to each his own. It sounds like the Accurail gons
will be excellent fodder for an accurate fleet. For 1/3 the price and a
little MODELING
Bruce

Ahem, the price disparity may not be as great as that. The Accurail
gondolas R-T-R probably will retail for about $10 less than one of
the SUNSHINE resin 40' gondola kits. I agree you save 5 or 6 hours
of labor.

Tim O.


Schuyler Larrabee
 

And I have "some" of the Sunshine Greenville kits, and I also have four of the Life-Like cars. It
will be quite some time before I get to assembling the Sunshines . . .and I have the Life-Likes in
operation NOW.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola

Shawn,
The two markets are vastly different. Remember the Sunshine
Greenville 52' Gondola? LifeLike has sold 10's of thousands
of this car, even after Martin had "flooded" the market with
his 100's of kits. Accurail can be ordered by dozens of
distributors allowing LHS across the country to stock an
item, whereas only 2 or
3 hobby stores carry Sunshine kits.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com> wrote:

Guys,

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an
11-panel 40'
AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can
see their
drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page at
www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has
been done
by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can
only assume
that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because they
feel they can
compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so
many other
prototypes they could have chosen.


Shawn Beckert, wondering who makes these decisions...


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and
help stop AIDS now.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------
------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite
Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------
------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links






Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola


And I have "some" of the Sunshine Greenville kits, and I also have four of the Life-Like cars. It
will be quite some time before I get to assembling the Sunshines . . .and I have the Life-Likes in
operation NOW.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola

Shawn,
The two markets are vastly different. Remember the Sunshine
Greenville 52' Gondola? LifeLike has sold 10's of thousands
of this car, even after Martin had "flooded" the market with
his 100's of kits. Accurail can be ordered by dozens of
distributors allowing LHS across the country to stock an
item, whereas only 2 or
3 hobby stores carry Sunshine kits.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com> wrote:

Guys,

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an
11-panel 40'
AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can
see their
drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page at
www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has
been done
by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can
only assume
that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because they
feel they can
compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so
many other
prototypes they could have chosen.


Shawn Beckert, wondering who makes these decisions...


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and
help stop AIDS now.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------
------~->



Yahoo! Groups Links


STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite
Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------
------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links









Yahoo! Groups Links







Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Shawn,

Even if Sunshine has done a superior AAR gondola, Accurail is not aiming at the same market. IMHO, they make a high quality product for the niche they have chosen to serve, even if it isn't your niche or mine. Yes, I know they do bogus paint schemes, make tooling compromises, and cast their cars with ladders and other details in place, but there out to make a buck in a tough business. Please, let's give them some credit.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Guys,

As Ted Culotta noted earlier, Accurail has announced an 11-panel 40' AAR gondola to be released late next year (maybe). You can see
their drawing of the proposed car in the "upcoming releases" page
at www.accurail.com .

As Richard Hendrickson pointed out, the 40' AAR gondola has been done by Sunshine, and as I recall with a one-piece body. I can only assume that Accurail would go ahead with this kit because
they feel they can compete with Sunshine in the area of pricing.
Otherwise why bother? I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.

Seems a waste of research and development when there are so many
other prototypes they could have chosen.


Shawn Beckert, wondering who makes these decisions...




Shawn Beckert
 

Bruce Smith chided:

Given the <G>, I'm sure that you didn't mean to offend, but you're
starting to sound like my local NMRA vesties... ("if it ain't
scratchbuilt, it ain't modeling")
Of course no offense was intended. And Heaven forbid that I sound like
a vestie (talk about a scarlet letter). Upon reflection, a better choice
of words would be "Obviously, it all comes down to pricing and The Resin
Fear Factor". I of all people would hardly claim to be immune to this; I
have a great deal of resin in the closet, all unbuilt. And I've been beating
the drums for a one-piece X-3 underframe simply because I *am* very uneasy
about trying to assemble all those bits and pieces in the Sunshine kit. Too
bad, because I'd buy a lot more X-3's (and X-5's) if it weren't for that one
stumbling block :-(

The point I was trying to make is that since Sunshine and Westerfield have
made it so much easier now with the introduction of one-piece bodies in
many of their kits, the excuse of "too hard to build" doesn't apply as well
as it used to. True, price (and the time it takes to build most resin kits)
is a problem for many. But as Tim pointed out, the price of styrene is
creeping up - along with the number of parts included in styrene kits - so
that at some point there won't be THAT much difference between resin and
styrene. Unless, of course, Martin raises his prices, which we can't really
predict and have no control over anyway.

Shawn Beckert


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Have any of you seen Accurail's latest offering, the 70 ton offset side
triple hopper? They cast the stirrups and framing in one piece in
acetyl plastic. The result is a very delicate looking stirrup, finer
than anything I could do with bent wire. And its unbreakable!

We were so impressed that the North Shore Club has used that car for
its latest club car. See www.nsmrc.org


regards,

Andy Miller


Tom Wencl <tdwencl@...>
 

I am very pleased with Accurail's 40' gondola announcement and wish
them much success on the project. Consider Accurail's recent 70 ton
triple hopper where they stepped up significantly with the higher
level of detail, including interior detail and much finer stirrups.
I can only hope they will continue this trend on the new gondola.
If I could add my personal wish list to the Accurail design it would
include:

- Body: interior rivet detail is a must.

- Ends: offer different types (dreadnaught, reversed dreadnaught,
etc.)

- Removeable floor

- Weight provision: Provide a recessed area between the removeable
floor and body casting floor to conceal a thin sheet metal or lead
sheet weight (just like Red Caboose does on their GS gon. It's
really too bad Sunshine's model has no provision for this.)

- Separate grab irons and ladders

- Underbody: one-piece brake piping assembly (similar to Branchline)

If the Accurail model, when complete, is done as well as the 70t
hopper and incorporates at least some of the above features, I'll be
buying at least half a dozen C&NW varieties and possibly more.

Regards,

Tom Wencl
Streamwood, IL


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I doubt they'll do it as well, only cheaper.
Hmm. Pretty hazardous prediction for a product not even out, especially when it is being developed and produced by one of the smartest and most skillful modelers in the hobby.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Tim O'Connor
 

I think you are wishing for the moon with regards to this kit...
If it has a detailed interior it will be a major victory. But separate
grabirons, ladders, and brake rigging? For ACCURAIL? You gotta
be kidding.

Now here's something worthwhile to think about -- what freight
car types has Accurail not done yet? Tank cars? Flat cars? Let's
gently coax Dennis to consider a radial course tank car model of
a Pressed Steel or General American variety. Now THAT would
get my blood flowing!

P.S. Although the new 70 ton AAR hopper is nice, I have a major
objection to it -- the doors and Wine locks are cast together. This
is a problem since my favorite prototype had Enterprise hardware!
Looks like I'll be holding onto my Stewarts after all...

Tim O'Connor


Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Wencl" <tdwencl@c...> wrote:

If I could add my personal wish list to the Accurail design it would
include:
Funny you should ask, as I'm just working on the tool design now.
Here's how it's shaping up:


- Body: interior rivet detail is a must.
Yup

- Ends: offer different types (dreadnaught, reversed dreadnaught,
etc.)
Separate parts to allow interior detail, but no plans for alternates,
at least not anytime soon.

- Removeable floor
Yup

- Weight provision: Provide a recessed area between the removeable
floor and body casting floor to conceal a thin sheet metal or lead
sheet weight (just like Red Caboose does on their GS gon. It's
really too bad Sunshine's model has no provision for this.)
Yup, sized for steel. Lead is a no-no, just ask the Govenor of California.

- Separate grab irons and ladders
Nope. It's out of charater with the market the Accurail line is
targeted at.

- Underbody: one-piece brake piping assembly (similar to Branchline)
Still being debated.

You read it here first.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.